Brad Scott can you please concede that your gameplan is crap!

[Shinboner Schem]

Well, we are getting beaten in the contested stuff, aren't fit enough and not skilled enough, so man on man would be a freakin disaster at this point in time. Considering that our playing group can best be described as developing I find it hard to ascertain what our strengths are or will be in 5 years time when realistically we should be pushing for a flag.

Part of the purpose of the zone is to negate a teams weaknesses by providing a blanket defensive structure that opposition find difficult to penetrate. It ain't working too well at the moment but like big men it will take time. Considering EVERY club uses zonal structures to some extent perhaps there might be some benefit in them. But what would 16 senior AFL coaches and their countless assistants know about tactics?

I think it is best to learn now, grow into the structure and be ready to play it effectively when fit and strong enough to do so.

I've only seen one type of zone being employed by BON so far with no shaking up except to throw a loose man down back

 

[Brad Roo]

It will take longer for us to be successful if we get wait to develop our players physically before teaching them the tactics of a zone.

I can't see how it will take us any longer. Besides, learning new game plans is for the pre season. It should be enacted only once the list reaches a critical point to enact this new game plan. Putting square pegs in round holes is ridiculous, and it could even prove to be counterproductive. Young players can and have had their confidence completely shot before by persevering with the wrong structures.

why not do both at the same time? Because we may loose members and sponsors?

We ARE losing supporters mate. Just take a look at the figures.

We will loose members and sponsors anyway because going man on man and waiting for our guys to develop before teaching them tactics is going to lead us to missing out on finals for a longer period of time.

Are you seriously suggesting that supporters and sponsors would prefer us to be less competitive?

 

[GarnerSmash]

Play fitter stronger players and our edge in the contested stuff would be to our advantage.

Go back and look at the round 21 2009 v StKilda game.

Keep our less developed kids in the seconds, building up their strength, fitness and most importantly confidence and rotate a couple of them through the senior team every week, not 7 or 8 of them all at once.

So you would like to bring in Obst, Gibson, Watt, Anthony, Garlett, Smith, Adams and Lower? I can see your point with Ed in the guts, now he has had three games at NB this is certainly a preferential option but Garlett is no tank, Anthony of course would be in if he was available, as would Adams. Watt and Gibson ain't options and Obba is banging around in the two's for a reason.

So really, that's four blokes from that game who are currently in the mix. Lower, Garlett, Smith and Obst. Who you gonna drop for them? Wright maybe. Ziebell? Bastinac? Cunnington maybe. O' Keefe maybe for Smith, but lets face it, there is more value in playing him then there is in playing Smith. I would like to see Garlett and Ed in the rotations but it's not exactly like their presence is going to vastly improve our side, moreso than Ziebell, Basta or Cunnington.

Perhaps we could back our new coach and give him the time to implement his plan? But I guess we can't because we will fold as a club if we don't start winning. Perhaps you should email Euge and advise him of the dire situation our club will be in if we don't start being competitive fast. Maybe he will ask Bon to change the game plan.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I've only seen one type of zone being employed by BON so far with no shaking up except to throw a loose man down back

That's because they are still learning this one. Contrary to some opinions learning a new structure doesn't happen over a preseason. It can take kids a couple of years.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

At least we have a game plan.

Can cop the beltings as long as we are trying to play NMFC footy, and so long as we are teaching the young boys what they need to learn.

We cannot have it both ways, sure we were probably more competitive under Laidleys, but i guarantee we are closer to a flag now than at any stage during laidleys tenure.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I can't see how it will take us any longer. Besides, learning new game plans is for the pre season. It should be enacted only once the list reaches a critical point to enact this new game plan. Putting square pegs in round holes is ridiculous, and it could even prove to be counterproductive. Young players can and have had their confidence completely shot before by persevering with the wrong structures.

Perhaps you should apply for the next vacant coaching role at AFL level, because you seem to know something that Rodney Eade and Dean Bailey don't. Both have them have said that it is very difficult to teach young players anything structurally. This doesn't happen over a preseason. Even North players have said that Scott has been introducing them to tactics slowly.

Are you seriously suggesting that supporters and sponsors would prefer us to be less competitive?

Are you serious? This is like year 11 debating. Success is more likely to come more quickly from learning the zone and developing physically at the same time rather than developing physically and then learning the zone.

 

[Brad Roo]

So you would like to bring in Obst, Gibson, Watt, Anthony, Garlett, Smith, Adams and Lower? I can see your point with Ed in the guts, now he has had three games at NB this is certainly a preferential option but Garlett is no tank, Anthony of course would be in if he was available, as would Adams. Watt and Gibson ain't options and Obba is banging around in the two's for a reason.

So really, that's four blokes from that game who are currently in the mix. Lower, Garlett, Smith and Obst. Who you gonna drop for them? Wright maybe. Ziebell? Bastinac? Cunnington maybe. O' Keefe maybe for Smith, but lets face it, there is more value in playing him then there is in playing Smith. I would like to see Garlett and Ed in the rotations but it's not exactly like their presence is going to vastly improve our side, moreso than Ziebell, Basta or Cunnington.

Perhaps we could back our new coach and give him the time to implement his plan? But I guess we can't because we will fold as a club if we don't start winning. Perhaps you should email Euge and advise him of the dire situation our club will be in if we don't start being competitive fast. Maybe he will ask Bon to change the game plan.

Obst for Hale (Hansen will go to CHF, Obst to defence)

Edwards for O'Keefe

Garlett (who can run every midfielder you mentioned off their feet with the exception of Bastinac) for Wright.

Lower for Cunnington

Ziebell and Bastinac stay in for Gibson and Watt. (These are our 2 development players)

Wells to the HBF for one of McMahon or Pratt.

Jones for Harding.

Rawlings, Grima, Thompson
Firrito, Obst, Wells
Garlett, Ziebell, Greenwood
Harvey, Hansen, Jones
Edwards, Petrie, Thomas

Goldstein, Swallow, Bastinac

McIntosh, Lower, Campbell (1 more week), McMahon/O'Keefe/MacMillan

 

[Brad Roo]

Perhaps you should apply for the next vacant coaching role at AFL level, because you seem to know something that Rodney Eade and Dean Bailey don't. Both have them have said that it is very difficult to teach young players anything structurally. This doesn't happen over a preseason. Even North players have said that Scott has been introducing them to tactics slowly.

I don't need to be an AFL coach to disagree with you champ.

Piss poor arrogant response.

Are you serious? This is like year 11 debating. Success is more likely to come more quickly from learning the zone and developing physically at the same time rather than developing physically and then learning the zone.

I'd rather be a competitive year 11 student than a Rhodes Scholar that gets flogged all the time.

Your logic is severely flawed.

 

[Roosurgence]

Zondors' take is this. :stern look

I've got no problem with Brad Scott wanting to play Zone Football.

The problem I have is that when it isn't working that he doesn't want to alter to a more man on man style of play.

I had this whinge after the StKilda game and I stand by it.

It's all about accountability and changing it up.

In the third qtr I would have moved B Rawlings into the middle, Harding into his place. Spud into the guts. Tried something to stem the flow from the middle but Scott seemed to move Goldy into the backline as a loose man and that was it.

Scott also needs to understand that Hales, Hamish and Goldy are just ordinary big men. They aren't great and quite frankly shouldn't be in our best 22 for team balance reasons. 2 out of 3 aint bad. So only pick 2 out of 3. Create competition between these guys. Is that such a bad thing?

Missing Wells, Anthony and Adams cost us a lot of run on the weekend. Replacing the likes of these guys with GIANTS was bound to be an EPIC FAIL.

I hope Scott learns or I'll be forced to call him Scotts. :stern look

+1

I'm with you on everything you said and wish I had said it as well as you

His stubborness to not change it up is frustrating the crap out of me!

 

[Roosurgence]

I can't see how it will take us any longer. Besides, learning new game plans is for the pre season. It should be enacted only once the list reaches a critical point to enact this new game plan. Putting square pegs in round holes is ridiculous, and it could even prove to be counterproductive. Young players can and have had their confidence completely shot before by persevering with the wrong structures.



We ARE losing supporters mate. Just take a look at the figures.



Are you seriously suggesting that supporters and sponsors would prefer us to be less competitive?

Top quality posting.

Some people seem quite happy to wait it out and see and have blind faith that in time everything will be ok. But unfortuantely this club as you pointed out doesn't have the luxury of hoping blind faith pays off. Look at Richmond they had faith in a 5 year Terry Wallace plan and look where that got them.

People need to see progress and something to get excited about. Unfortunately we are not seeing either at the moment. Just one man's stubborness to carry out his vision. While admirable in some ways, also pig headed in others.

 

[Shinboner Schem]

That's because they are still learning this one. Contrary to some opinions learning a new structure doesn't happen over a preseason. It can take kids a couple of years.

A couple of years is a big punt to take on a gameplan that "we think will be successful" - brad's words

Are you saying that they cannot learn to use a zone only for certain situations - eg kick-ins, and the gamestyle they are used to for others?
Or that they cannot learn to only have the forward and centre lines play a zone while the backline man up?

 

[Roosurgence]

That's because they are still learning this one. Contrary to some opinions learning a new structure doesn't happen over a preseason. It can take kids a couple of years.

Are you kidding me? Of course they have learnt the structure. What we are learning is that they don't have the tools to carry out the structure.

We are also learning that this game style is highly ineffective against opposition who have good footskills.

No one is saying completely throw it in the garbage and start again. But how about change things up a bit and develop a felxible approach rather than the single minded, "this is the only way" approach?

 

[NiceCunnington]

Need more posts about it.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I don't need to be an AFL coach to disagree with you champ.

Piss poor arrogant response.

I apologise if I have hurt your feelings.

However, my point is that you are not disagreeing with me, but the opinions of AFL coaches. I am merely stating what I have heard them say. As they do this for a living I defer to that.

I'd rather be a competitive year 11 student than a Rhodes Scholar that gets flogged all the time.

Your logic is severely flawed.

This is where we get into the , 'No, your logic is severely flawed' circular discussion. So I choose to leave it there.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Need more posts about it.

I agree.

 

[curiousLplater]

Need more posts about it.

lol...

I'm with you NiceCunners

 

[Brad Roo]

I apologise if I have hurt your feelings.

However, my point is that you are not disagreeing with me, but the opinions of AFL coaches. I am merely stating what I have heard them say. As they do this for a living I defer to that.

Your arrogance is in thinking that you alone are interpreting an AFL coaches philosophies correctly, then hiding behind an elitist attitude once your points are challenged.

This is where we get into the , 'No, your logic is severely flawed' circular discussion. So I choose to leave it there.

Good idea.

It's not as if I am completely writing off Bons philosophies, it's just that I am concerned as to the damage that could be done whilst we wait for them to come to fruition. All I'm asking people to consider is a more cautious approach.

 

[kenzzr]

Football - get to ball first, kick it at goals, if other team has it be close enough to get it off them. Can't see the point in making a game more complicated than that. The modern trend of building a team of running robots playing a game of uncontested possession further destroys what was exciting about football.
You can stop being smashed by teams by playing close, physical footy and that's what makes you love your players whether they win or lose. It's what made North different from other teams and why I'd prefer playing different to other teams. Encourage the player with flair to take games on (Blight, McAdam, Wells) and bring back players who can take a pack mark.

Happy to hang on to everything else that has progressed since 1980 though!

 

[LuvtheKangas]

If you are going to take a shot then how about get your facts straight. I haven't made a judgement call on Brad Scott, in fact I have gone to lengths to point out that I actually applaud some of the things he is doing.

Geez, you're full of it.

You haven't made a judgment call? Perhaps, not, if you want to get into semantics. But the continued criticism of both Scott and the gameplan is what I was getting at. I CBF searching through your past posting gems to show that this part of your post is disingenuous, but it's there for all to see.

Going to lengths to applaud? Yeah, from the school of 1 pat on the back for every 8 kicks in the head. I'm sure that your magnanimous concession that he is doing some things right would give Brad a warm feeling.

The only thing I have written off is his gameplan and I would think 10 weeks of rubbish would be enough to make an accurate assessment of how that is going. Also the fact that we have shown no improvement are going backwards and worst of all showing no competitive effort, is a fairly key indicator that not only does it not work, but there is a good chance the players have lost faith in the direction as well.

Your opinion. I think it's narrow-minded and short-sighted, but you're entitled to it. The fact that you feel the need to aggressively re-state it every week has just gotten really tiring.

And your "10 weeks of rubbish" includes 4 wins. Go figure.

If you are going to say my thread is crap then at least come in and make a valid argument to support your view as to why you think the gameplan is so great, other than the it takes time crap.

But yes the old chesnut of it takes time, will solve everything.

The argument supporting my view is that it's too soon to make a call on the gameplan, coach, etc. It's a valid argument, which doesn't become invalid because you don't agree with it.

12 more weeks of crapola will be fantastic for next years membership drive and this years crowd figures. Its hard enough to attract members and crowds at the best of times, let alone when you have a side that is non competitive and plays a style of football that that accentuates that fact.

Stooping even lower now, I see.

Are you one of the "supporters" who will not take up membership if the next 12 weeks deliver the same kind of ride as the first 10? That would indeed be upsetting.

 

[Roosurgence]

Geez, you're full of it.

You haven't made a judgment call? Perhaps, not, if you want to get into semantics. But the continued criticism of both Scott and the gameplan is what I was getting at. I CBF searching through your past posting gems to show that this part of your post is disingenuous, but it's there for all to see.

Well why don't you dig these gems out. Yes I have been very vocal at my dissaproval of our gameplan. But I have never bagged him personaly or said he isn't capable of being a good coach. I think he is coaching very poorly at the moment, but can you dig out the post where I have said he is a dud, let's sack him? Good luck finding a post to that effect


Going to lengths to applaud? Yeah, from the school of 1 pat on the back for every 8 kicks in the head. I'm sure that your magnanimous concession that he is doing some things right would give Brad a warm feeling.

Again dig out my posts. Been saying it from day one. Love that he is playing the kids and love his media work. Bit dubious about the Aker comments, thought he probably got a bit personal and could have let them go through to the keeper and been not so vocal. But I know he is doing his best to promote the club in the media and think he is doing a wonderful job in that regard.




Your opinion. I think it's narrow-minded and short-sighted, but you're entitled to it. The fact that you feel the need to aggressively re-state it every week has just gotten really tiring.

If we didn't keep putting in insipid and uncompetitive performances then I have no reason to even question his gameplan. But I think the way we have played speaks very much for itself. But if you want to close your eyes to it and sya everything will be ok in time then your perogative.

And your "10 weeks of rubbish" includes 4 wins. Go figure.

Wins that were the result of the opositions poor use of the ball and wins where we nearly snached defeat from the jaws of victory because of a stubborness to change tack and try and stem the bleeding. The Hawthorn win was about the only one I saw which actually had some merit to it. The other 3 were nothing to get excited about.

The argument supporting my view is that it's too soon to make a call on the gameplan, coach, etc. It's a valid argument, which doesn't become invalid because you don't agree with it.

I was hoping you might actually come out and have an opinion on why you think this gameplan is the way forward and will deliver us on field success. Saying things take time is just making a stab in the dark prediction and hoping it all turns out for the best. Surely you have seen some positive results from this style that has heightened your expectation of future success if you think its just a matter of time?

Stooping even lower now, I see.

As pointed out earlier you only have to see our membership and matchday attendance figures to see that we aren't travelling so crash hot. Unfortunately a section of your supporter base will always be bandwagoners who only jump on during the good times. Some people don't pay good money or want to see a show if they think its s**t.

Are you one of the "supporters" who will not take up membership if the next 12 weeks deliver the same kind of ride as the first 10? That would indeed be upsetting.

Here we go again. Just because I have the audacity to question our gameplan and question where we are heading by implementing a one dimensional game day strategy I must be one of these bandwagoners? Get over yourself just because you blindly believe things will be ok in time doesn't make you any superior type of supporter / member. At least I am not low enough to stoop to a level where I question a persons support and passion because they don't agree with how our coach is going about it.

 

[hilly]

Edwards and Obst in?

 

[Z_K]

There are lots of reasons why we're struggling against sides in the top 4, and none of them are because the players are no good or the coach doesn't have a clue.

It takes a long time, and personally, I reckon plugging holes with older players and old fashioned football styles moving away from what looks to be a set plan in place for months might sneak us an extra win or two in 2010, but will do nothing to make us a great side. We tried that and it failed by any measure.

Time to do it properly, and I think we're doing that. Win this week (which we will), then a big one against Carlton on Friday night and we go all square with Port to come at Etihad.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Well why don't you dig these gems out. Yes I have been very vocal at my dissaproval of our gameplan. But I have never bagged him personaly or said he isn't capable of being a good coach. I think he is coaching very poorly at the moment, but can you dig out the post where I have said he is a dud, let's sack him? Good luck finding a post to that effect

Ahem:

Don't despair, by seasons end all of our players will become backmen, thats his master plan. Tarrant was first, then Sam Wright, now Goldstein, who's next?

I'm waiting for Scott to throw Patch Adams into the ruck just to aid his development

You speak of moves that 15 other coaches would have made, but not Brad Scott. He seems hell bent on teaching some ridiculous lessons. Football is a very basic game, so keep it simple stupid.

All I have learnt is that you can perform like crap and still maintain your place as long as you are following team rules.

Next Gem.

At least I am not low enough to stoop to a level where I question a persons support and passion because they don't agree with how our coach is going about it.

Ahem:

12 more weeks of crapola will be fantastic for next years membership drive and this years crowd figures. Its hard enough to attract members and crowds at the best of times, let alone when you have a side that is non competitive and plays a style of football that that accentuates that fact.

 

[Roosurgence]

LOL!

Comon LTK surely you have better than that?

One was a sarcastic comment at some of his gameday moves and the other is a direct statement of his stubborness not to change his gamestyle and that players are rewarded for strictly adhering to it.

I'll let you know when I start the "Brad Scott is a dud and sack him!" thread so you can quote me more easily

Still looking for the stooping nature of the membership comment. Yours was a personal comment on my loyalty and wether I would be joining up again? Mine was a general statement that our membership figures are poor as well as our attendances and that won't improve if we keep dishing up crap!

Seems you have more interest in making this personal than actually debating the issue?

But whatever I'm happy to play along.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

LOL!

Comon LTK surely you have better than that?

One was a sarcastic comment at some of his gameday moves and the other is a direct statement of his stubborness not to change his gamestyle and that players are rewarded for strictly adhering to it.

I'll let you know when I start the "Brad Scott is a dud and sack him!" thread so you can quote me more easily

Still looking for the stooping nature of the membership comment. Yours was a personal comment on my loyalty and wether I would be joining up again? Mine was a general statement that our membership figures are poor as well as our attendances and that won't improve if we keep dishing up crap!

Seems you have more interest in making this personal than actually debating the issue?

But whatever I'm happy to play along.

You denied posting in a certain way, I called you on it and provided proof. You can try to bluff and misinterpret as much as you like, but them's the facts, lady.

And it's not as if I'm the only one pushing back in relation to the crap that you write, is it?