Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

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King Harold

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Not if you watch 2 games of VFL football each week like I do, the choice was obvious, especially the situation we are in with talls who can play forward.
Fuller is slow, is too bloody small, and cannot find the football.
Believe me his drafting is a shocker, worse than Howard, and even worse than Jesse Wells who I happened to sponsor.
I hope they have the guts to admit their mistake, and get rid of him.

Spot on Black pup , if dopes like us can call it well before the draft and get it right , don't see how you can defend the decision. For those having a go at us and talking about hindsight, have a look at the Fuller "highlights" again and tell us he was in the best 40 odd footballers in the whole of Australia ? staggering decision full stop with Brown available.
But then again we don't need tall forwards do we ?
 

King Harold

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Really, how many senior players do we have who would be that influential? Boyd? - heading into his last season. Minno? - knows full well he had a poor season. Morris? - can't imagine him rocking the boat, same with Murphy. Cooney? Not what he was so is not in a position to cause trouble. I sense Griffen is not entirely happy but again, not the kind of guy to make waves. I think discontent is more likely among the younger ones who have not yet cracked into regular senior spots and they have been told why. It's up to them to please the coach by working on their deficiencies, not act like princesses.

I am in know way saying any group of players should be dictating how the appointed coach should operate.
And I certainly have no idea what is happening internally here , but there seems a sniff of smoke around ?
Just stating a historical fact , if there is a divide between a group of players and coach ----
guess who loses his head ?
 
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I am in know way saying any group of players should be dictating how the appointed coach should operate.
And I certainly have no idea what is happening internally here , but there seems a sniff of smoke around ?
Just stating a historical fact , if there is a divide between a group of players and coach ----
guess who loses his head ?
And who should know better than a King......Off with his head!!
 

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Spot on Black pup , if dopes like us can call it well before the draft and get it right , don't see how you can defend the decision. For those having a go at us and talking about hindsight, have a look at the Fuller "highlights" again and tell us he was in the best 40 odd footballers in the whole of Australia ? staggering decision full stop with Brown available.
But then again we don't need tall forwards do we ?
Didn't Fuller play SANFL? Or did he play VFL at some stage as well?
(Not attacking you at all cause from memory you did want Brown at that pick but just confused how watching VFL can help from an opinion on someone playing SANFL)
 

King Harold

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Didn't Fuller play SANFL? Or did he play VFL at some stage as well?
(Not attacking you at all cause from memory you did want Brown at that pick but just confused how watching VFL can help from an opinion on someone playing SANFL)

I am not sure Fuller played VFL Fargy , but I doubt he would have.
And for all out there thinking I am harsh on Fuller. I don't mean to be , the poor bloke deserves a break.
I hope this time next year me and Black pup are eating humble pie.
 
I am in know way saying any group of players should be dictating how the appointed coach should operate.
And I certainly have no idea what is happening internally here , but there seems a sniff of smoke around ?
Just stating a historical fact , if there is a divide between a group of players and coach ----
guess who loses his head ?
Can't agree with u on this one king. In a quality team, yep, senior players win out. In a poor, rebuilding team, I'm tipping minson and cooney to lose their heads before McCartney.
 
We made a call. Hindsight is everything. If Fuller had turned out to be a gun, it wouldn't even be mentioned. If Brown, like most talls taken after 40, turned out to be a complete spud, it wouldn't be mentioned. It's all hypothetical crap.
Most mids taken after this time are also spuds, it is a risk. Take what you need, you may end up with right player and have lost nothing if you do not
 
I am not sure Fuller played VFL Fargy , but I doubt he would have.
And for all out there thinking I am harsh on Fuller. I don't mean to be , the poor bloke deserves a break.
I hope this time next year me and Black pup are eating humble pie.
I think your comments are pretty fair. As a footballer I can only go on what I've heard and even the positive among us on Fuller when drafted have just about given up. He's not up to it by the looks and the club did indeed make a mistake. Just finding it strange that so many are coming out saying they knew it was a mistake but didn't say much about it when he was drafted, and that's not in reference to you at all because as stated you did say you wanted Brown.
Anyway hindsight is great and all that :p If this doesn't go as planned for him I hope he doesn't let it define him and finds some success in life :) Some people may have the attitude and drive to play AFL but just not the talent, which is why it's so frustrating seeing those with talent waste it.
 
I don't disagree that we have a lack of KPP, how could you, but we also have supporters screaming blue murder that we have no kickers off half back, so we recruit to address that and it doesn't work. We have a history of recruiting talls late in the draft who end up being spuds, so it stands to reason that the risk in recruiting late in the draft isn't limited to needs, the risk is spread across all players and selections. Just pick players who you think will make you better, regardless of needs, late in the draft. If they're tall, so be it, but I'm not stressed about the success rate or otherwise of players selected after 40. I am, however, keen to maximise the returns we get out of our top 10 picks, because they are the players who will drive the (hopeful) success we see in the short to medium term.
Gilbee was not drafted as an elite kicker, howard was. Half back flankers are developed usually from mids not drafted in their own right
 
Gilbee was not drafted as an elite kicker, howard was. Half back flankers are developed usually from mids not drafted in their own right
That's a good point and something I've wondered about, I don't have any knowledge of the underage competition, but there wouldn't be a lot of players that play on the flanks that get drafted would there? It would be a majority of midfielders that aren't quite as good as the best of those that play midfield and then made into flankers?
 

King Harold

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That's a good point and something I've wondered about, I don't have any knowledge of the underage competition, but there wouldn't be a lot of players that play on the flanks that get drafted would there? It would be a majority of midfielders that aren't quite as good as the best of those that play midfield and then made into flankers?

I my day ( before the Boer war ) half back flankers were blokes that wern't good enough to play anywhere else !
 
That's a good point and something I've wondered about, I don't have any knowledge of the underage competition, but there wouldn't be a lot of players that play on the flanks that get drafted would there? It would be a majority of midfielders that aren't quite as good as the best of those that play midfield and then made into flankers?
Not necessarily not quite good enough, but their disposal and pace fits in better with the team structure off the HBF. Its why some of us would be interested to see Griff there from time to time. Other than us I have not know of a player being drafted as a HBF for their 'elite' kicking ie Howard and Fuller. I certainly cannot think of a success in doing this
 
Not necessarily not quite good enough, but their disposal and pace fits in better with the team structure off the HBF. Its why some of us would be interested to see Griff there from time to time. Other than us I have not know of a player being drafted as a HBF for their 'elite' kicking ie Howard and Fuller. I certainly cannot think of a success in doing this
Excuse my ignorance but was Kolodjashnij a midfielder?
 

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He was drafted as one.
Do you remember when Griff burst on to the scene where he started?
My memory is quite ordinary but I do remember him flogging Ablett on a wing, but I imagine he would have played half back too. In terms of him playing there now I can see both sides of the argument, my preference would be to mix it up a bit. In my opinion he is still our most valuable midfielder (injury free).
 

King Harold

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Can't agree with u on this one king. In a quality team, yep, senior players win out. In a poor, rebuilding team, I'm tipping minson and cooney to lose their heads before McCartney.

Fronk I hope you are right , I want to see this rebuild through this time.
If Macca has had to tell some home truths to a few of them , its not a problem for me.
 
Spot on Black pup , if dopes like us can call it well before the draft and get it right , don't see how you can defend the decision. For those having a go at us and talking about hindsight, have a look at the Fuller "highlights" again and tell us he was in the best 40 odd footballers in the whole of Australia ? staggering decision full stop with Brown available.
But then again we don't need tall forwards do we ?
This is how I see it too for the following reasons:
Several posters, I included, suggested we take a strong interest in Brown before the draft particularly based on our needs.
Fuller's video highlights and match statistics for Norwood were average to say the least. Granted he looked like he could kick the ball a long way but didn't appear to get it that often playing a loose role off half back.
To suggest that Fuller somehow offered a role to fulfil needs, I would have thought that a small, slowish half-back flanker was the last thing we needed.
I don't agree that picks around the 42 mark are necessarily speculative by nature, providing that the player chosen offers the potential to fulfil a need which Brown obviously did more so than Fuller.
Also, the constantly rolled out argument that we are all the wiser in hindsight does not justify or explain what are generally accepted as baffling decisions, to me this smacks of a lack of foresight. One only has to consider the Howard recruitment to see a precedent in this logic.
Generally, I applaud our recent recruiting and it is impossible to get every selection right but we would hope that when amateurs can see the difference in the potential offered by Fuller or Brown respectively, we would hope that the professionals could make the right call.
 
He was drafted as one.
Do you remember when Griff burst on to the scene where he started?
Where a player is drafted is often irrelevant to where they play in the AFL.

Lingy was a FF
Minson was a forward, as was Lake
Gilbee played midfield/forward
Presti was a "high leaping forward"
Griff was a midfielder who spent years off the HB line
Panos was a FF who is currently tearing it up at SANFL level as an inside mid
 
Where a player is drafted is often irrelevant to where they play in the AFL.

Lingy was a FF
Minson was a forward, as was Lake
Gilbee played midfield/forward
Presti was a "high leaping forward"
Griff was a midfielder who spent years off the HB line
Panos was a FF who is currently tearing it up at SANFL level as an inside mid

This is the point I am making Mofra. Justification for the Howard and Fuller drafts was we were looking at elite kicking half backs. What a nonsense, and no wonder one never worked and I doubt they ever will.

The difference in risk of players after the second round is minimal. Fully agree with drafting the best available in the first 2 rounds as there can be a large gap in ability and risk. Rounds 3 onwards draft for needs in the overall structure. Where a kpp plays in the AFL will often be different to where they have played, but at least make sure you have a core group on your list to begin with to have the opportunity to develop them.

We had 6 kpp's in total on our list this year including rookies, yet picked a SANFL hbf who whilst a good kick did not get 30 plus possessions a game instead of a young KPP under our nose in the VFL. The risk of neither of them making it was the same, the difference is if they both did make it, Fuller adds little to what we have where Brown adds a kpp option. If we had 9 kpp's on our list already, fair enough, but we didn't.
 

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So IF as I suggest we finish in the bottom 3 next year who thinks that is enough for Macca to go or do people honestly think IF that happens it's all part of the development and plan?

I seriously want to know what people's breaking points are coz I'm honestly stunned people still believe in him(which is fully our right)

For me we need more than 7 wins next year regardless of the situation. 10-11 wins is actually par for me, but if we have a SHOCKING season for injuries i could potentially accept 8-9 wins. Anything less than 8 wins and I would be likely to join the "sack Macca" chorus.
 

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North at the start of 2014 ran deeper then us in every way, their main core player were at that 80-120 games 23-26 range, this was built over many years and developed. They have better ball users moving the ball forward and kicking into F50

Ben Brown wouldn't have done what he is doing with north now with us, because our ball movement isn't as good and our kicking into F50 is poor.

Liam Jones is made to look like a fool when guys like Boyd can't kick the pill to he's advantage
 
This is the point I am making Mofra. Justification for the Howard and Fuller drafts was we were looking at elite kicking half backs. What a nonsense, and no wonder one never worked and I doubt they ever will.

The difference in risk of players after the second round is minimal. Fully agree with drafting the best available in the first 2 rounds as there can be a large gap in ability and risk. Rounds 3 onwards draft for needs in the overall structure. Where a kpp plays in the AFL will often be different to where they have played, but at least make sure you have a core group on your list to begin with to have the opportunity to develop them.

We had 6 kpp's in total on our list this year including rookies, yet picked a SANFL hbf who whilst a good kick did not get 30 plus possessions a game instead of a young KPP under our nose in the VFL. The risk of neither of them making it was the same, the difference is if they both did make it, Fuller adds little to what we have where Brown adds a kpp option. If we had 9 kpp's on our list already, fair enough, but we didn't.
Agree, just reinforcing your point.

My issue with the Fuller pick was that although we needed a mature rebounding defender until one develops (and we just traded for Darley) - and isn't that what Goodes' role is at AFL level? He got through 2014 uninjured and Darley debuted and showed some signs, I would have thought that is exactly the type of progression plan we wanted (especially considering we played Higgins off the HB line in 2014).

We do desperately need KPPs and I wouldn't be surprised if we trade for one and take more than one at draft time (and my personal preference is for another ruck, even as a rookie).
 
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