Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[black pup]

Didn't Fuller play SANFL? Or did he play VFL at some stage as well?
(Not attacking you at all cause from memory you did want Brown at that pick but just confused how watching VFL can help from an opinion on someone playing SANFL)

Fargy, Fuller played only in SANFL, most of us who follow the draft closely, had a fair handle on Fuller and what he brought to the table.
I rated Brown very high, I thought he was a steel at 42, Fuller highlight reel would not excite a desperate in a brothel. Small, And slow, and just cannot get a kick.
Not a good recipe for success.

 

[lachy]

Fargy, Fuller played only in SANFL, most of us who follow the draft closely, had a fair handle on Fuller and what he brought to the table.
I rated Brown very high, I thought he was a steel at 42, Fuller highlight reel would not excite a desperate in a brothel. Small, And slow, and just cannot get a kick.
Not a good recipe for success.

Black pup it is why at this stage I only rate Dalrymples draft 50/50

 

[Mattdougie]

Let's look at dalrymple shall we

Other than the 3 first rounders(stringer Bonts macrae)that anyone could have picked who has he actually picked that is quality??

Don't say Hrovat he is a C grader at the moment and still yet to prove he will be more

But who else?!

People say our drafting had been good but take those 3 out and what's left?

 

[Igloo]

Let's look at dalrymple shall we

Other than the 3 first rounders(stringer Bonts macrae)that anyone could have picked who has he actually picked that is quality??

Don't say Hrovat he is a C grader at the moment and still yet to prove he will be more

But who else?!

People say our drafting had been good but take those 3 out and what's left?

So you're discounting Hrovat by saying he's a "C grader", which i'm assuming is partly because he's as young as he is (going by your "still yet to prove" comment). You realise this can then be extended to almost every player that Dalrymple has drafted, excusing the 2009 and 2010 drafts, right?

Or is it just a case of, "don't say this player cause I disagree"? Which is totally legit.

 

[Mattdougie]

So you're discounting Hrovat by saying he's a "C grader", which i'm assuming is partly because he's as young as he is (going by your "still yet to prove" comment). You realise this can then be extended to almost every player that Dalrymple has drafted, excusing the 2009 and 2010 drafts, right?

Or is it just a case of, "don't say this player cause I disagree"? Which is totally legit.

Well regardless of what other people think of Hrovat he is yet to prove much at the level and seeing he is so young I rate him a C as I would any other kid(Darley, Honey and co)

But looking at the players he has drafting do any other than the 3 really excite you?? Do u honestly think they will be A graders ever?

 

[Igloo]

Well regardless of what other people think of Hrovat he is yet to prove much at the level and seeing he is so young I rate him a C as I would any other kid(Darley, Honey and co)

Exactly. It's hardly surprising the kids picked highest (those with the most talent) are the ones showing the most in the early days. So are you asking which ones people see promise in, or who has performed? If it's the latter, it's a pretty stiff question.

 

[Mattdougie]

Exactly. It's hardly surprising the kids picked highest (those with the most talent) are the ones showing the most in the early days. So are you asking which ones people see promise in, or who has performed? If it's the latter, it's a pretty stiff question.

No I'm just saying other than the top 3 not a lot there excite me personally and I doubt if any can be A graders

But I'm asking. Others what they think of them and Dalrymple overall, are u happy with him?

 

[Igloo]

No I'm just saying other than the top 3 not a lot there excite me personally and I doubt if any can be A graders

But I'm asking. Others what they think of them and Dalrymple overall, are u happy with him?

I've been very happy with our drafting the past few years. As it's not entirely appropriate for this thread, I wont go into details of which players I think have bright futures, who I think will be busts (there are a few). But i've been happy with the job Dalrymple has done.

 

[Mattdougie]

I've been very happy with our drafting the past few years. As it's not entirely appropriate for this thread, I wont go into details of which players I think have bright futures, who I think will be busts (there are a few). But i've been happy with the job Dalrymple has done.

Yeah I'm neither one way or the other at moment, I think it's a very important draft for him myself but your right wrong thread

 

[dogzrule]

So what?

Ryan Griffen is on holidays and Ryan Bastinac is set to play in a preliminary final. Plenty of average players go along for the ride.

Average player, playing his 11th game in a prelim final in his sides best..... Again.... Right

BEST
Sydney Swans: Franklin, Parker, Kennedy, Rohan, Tippett, Cunningham, Jack, McGlynn
North Melbourne: Cunnington, Brown, Greenwood, Dal Santo

 

[dogzrule]

Bugger me I didn't realise he was the reason. You're right, we should have drafted him, then we'd be in a Prelim.

Interesting conclusion you make from my comment mentioning Brown maybe slightly better than average, are you a mind reader by chance ?

 

[go you pups]

Dalrymple got everyone from 2009 wrong, 2010 was a blessing with Libba and Wallis going FS in a compromised draft took a chance on Hill, Skinner and that WA kid who left and found Dahlhaus in the rookie draft. Had bugger all chance in the heavily compromised 2011 draft but Smith and Talia look to be solid choices, smashed 2012, only 3 picks in 2013 draft but looks to have found an elite kid in Bontempelli, a solid kid who will probably make it in Honeychurch and a flop in Matt "Christian Howard" Fuller.

When you look back at Clayton's last 4 years he was at the club WTF, 05 Higgins and a rookie elevation in Morris are all that's left and Addison was serviceable. 06 all bloody gone with Everitt traded and the rest delisted, 07 only Grant and Wood remain, 08 all 3 remain in Jones, Cordy and Roughy due to our lack of KPPs etc. Only 1 elite player drafted by Clayton in that period and he was elevated off the rookie list.

Good riddance Clayton. Dalrymple>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Clayton.

 

[go you pups]

Spot on Black pup , if dopes like us can call it well before the draft and get it right , don't see how you can defend the decision. For those having a go at us and talking about hindsight, have a look at the Fuller "highlights" again and tell us he was in the best 40 odd footballers in the whole of Australia ? staggering decision full stop with Brown available.
But then again we don't need tall forwards do we ?

I got the feeling they passed on Brown because they thought he was too similar to Cordy and Campbell, etc more of a ruck than a forward, but yes they got it wrong, Brown looks more of a forward than a ruckman.

 

[fronkalicious]

I got the feeling they passed on Brown because they thought he was too similar to Cordy and Campbell, etc more of a ruck than a forward, but yes they got it wrong, Brown looks more of a forward than a ruckman.

And more of an afl talent than cordy

 

[jamesDP]

Another week with Brendan McCartney leading the S.S. WB, nothing much to report, apart from a few grumblings from the senior players about the way the ship is being handled, might be a few waves over the bow, but the S.S. WB would want smooth sailing in 2015 or it might end up on the rocks.......

 

[Some Idiot]

Average player, playing his 11th game in a prelim final in his sides best..... Again.... Right

BEST
Sydney Swans: Franklin, Parker, Kennedy, Rohan, Tippett, Cunningham, Jack, McGlynn
North Melbourne: Cunnington, Brown, Greenwood, Dal Santo

The fact that he's playing in a prelim is still neither here nor there. A footy club is made up of over 40 players and hundreds of staff and all contribute to the club's success.

 

[TedDougChris]

Average player, playing his 11th game in a prelim final in his sides best..... Again.... Right

BEST
Sydney Swans: Franklin, Parker, Kennedy, Rohan, Tippett, Cunningham, Jack, McGlynn
North Melbourne: Cunnington, Brown, Greenwood, Dal Santo

Jason Tutt was named in the bests in his first game - just saying.....

FWIW, I agree we should have picked him up....

 

[Mattdougie]

Another week with Brendan McCartney leading the S.S. WB, nothing much to report, apart from a few grumblings from the senior players about the way the ship is being handled, might be a few waves over the bow, but the S.S. WB would want smooth sailing in 2015 or it might end up on the rocks.......

Already run aground and half the passengers can see the water gushing in and the rest live in ignorant bliss.

Only a matter of time before "abandon ship" is called but many will still be in disbelief of the obvious and go down with the ship while the captain is at the helm shouting "it's Monday and were teaching" who can this happen !?

 

[black pup]

Macca on borrowed time, Sanderson sacked, won 19 more games than Macca in same period.
Maybe Sando should have been bullshitting about teaching, teaching, developing, teaching.
It seems to me, Macca has convinced a lot of supporters, that we are the only club in the AFL that teach and develop ????? of coarse we always start this Monday morning after a loss.
The facts are, our year was a lot worse than last year, we won less games, Macca claims we stayed in games longer, what rot, we had a worse percentage. How does that make any sense, This bloke cannot coach, but he can tell a good story.
I don't believe he will see 2015 out, his game planned is flawed, he is far to defenceive. Poor coach on match day.
He will end up stuffing our great kids up, as he has done Jones. Had a little try at Macrare.
The sooner we sack Macca the better.

 

[Super Hans]

Cause our list and Adelaide's list are totally in the same situation.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Sanderson took over the most poorly run well resourced club in the AFL, did a reasonable job, had an explanation for everything that went wrong, and they sacked him as a scapegoat because the campaigners on the board are too proud and too deluded to fall on their swords.

Adelaide is a disgracefully run football club, we shouldn't be taking any leaves from their book.

He had a try at destroying Macrae? Sorry, but that is absolutely pure unadulterated bullshit. Macrae's an outstanding offensive weapon, but at times he was useless without ball in hand. He needed a bake and he got it.

As for Jones, what the hell? I thought everyone thought that he was a spud (for the record, I've just about been his biggest defender for the last 3 years), now it's McCartney's fault that he's not performing?

I can understand and empathise with many coherent reasons for wanting McCartney's head, but people are drawing idiotic and irrelevant conclusions from the evidence at hand, and behaving as if everyone else is deluded. Tragic.

Oh, and *sips Kool Aid*, for your benefit.

 

[Mattdougie]

Just sitting here sipping the anti kool aid watching the show

 

[TedDougChris]

Despite other peoples desires, Macca isn't going anywhere.

You don't embark on a long, disciplined, structured path to improving and rebuilding a football club and then expect instant results. We outperformed expectations last year, slightly underperformed this year. In the end, it's probably about where Garlick, Gordon and co expected we would be. They might have liked a few more wins, but wouldn't have been banking on it. They'll be seeking further improvement next year and have every right to expect it.

They've deliberately adopted the long, focussed approach here. Introduction of the VFL side, setting and establishing long term standards that need to be met. They've traded (Lake) and let go (Cross) players that still had time left - to fast track the development of more young talent - with the aim of quickly building a nucleus of a side that can stand on it's own feet - knowing that we had a poorly age profiled list.

Are there still holes in the list ? - yes. Will this trade/draft period fix all these ? - nope. Are they looking at young talent to bring in ? - if the rumours re: Carlisle, Patton, Reid are correct - then yes. Will we be able to get a big fish ? - who knows at this stage....

Is everyone happy at the club ? - nope. Is this unusual for a football club ? Nope.

Have mistakes been made ? - yep. Will more mistakes be made ? - probably... If I was betting on it, definitely. But does that mean that Macca is the wrong man for the job - not necessarily. He may need to tweak a few things, but this is normal. For all those seeking out Bomber Thompson, he admitted a few weeks back he had tried to do too much too early this year and it hadn't worked. Experienced coaches make mistakes - look at Malthouse and his terrible relationship with the media. Macca is no different - he makes mistakes and has to work through and live with them.

I know some people have already pre-decided, but given he's got 2 years left, we probably can't afford to pay him out, I suspect there will be 2 more years of frustration for a certain subset of the supporter group. Gordon's not going to put $1M out of his own pocket just to see it wasted to appease a small element of the fan base. Particularly not when the long term results (like the development of the kids, success of the VFL side) are pointing in an upwards direction.

 

[Next Waiting]

Sanderson took over the most poorly run well resourced club in the AFL, did a reasonable job, had an explanation for everything that went wrong, and they sacked him as a scapegoat because the campaigners on the board are too proud and too deluded to fall on their swords.

Adelaide is a disgracefully run football club, we shouldn't be taking any leaves from their book.

He had a try at destroying Macrae? Sorry, but that is absolutely pure unadulterated bullshit. Macrae's an outstanding offense weapon, but at times he was useless without ball in hand. He needed a bake and he got it.

As for Jones, what the hell? I thought everyone thought that he was a spud (for the record, I've just about been his biggest defender for the last 3 years), now it's McCartney's fault that he's not performing?

I can understand and empathise with many coherent reasons for wanting McCartney's head, but people are drawing idiotic and irrelevant conclusions from the evidence at hand, and behaving as if everyone else is deluded. Tragic.

Oh, and *sips Kool Aid*, for your benefit.

There are a few premiership winning analysts and players who agree with your general sentiments and believe very strongly that Macca is the right coach for us at this time. I can't recall a premiership winning player or analyst misunderstanding our list or suggesting he isn't what we need with the possible exception of Lloyd at one point (perhaps there are others but I don't watch the footy show). We've had a lot of non-premiership winning players at the club over the last 60 years and 40 current ones, some of whom have played unsuccessfully in 3 preliminary finals. It's good that Macca has introduced a very recently retired and 3 time premiership winning player like Joel Corey to the coaching group and to interact with and teach the younger players. He fought successfully at the coal face in 4 preliminary finals and 3 grand finals and understands the time, skills and application needed by players to succeed at the highest level. I'm sure the younger ones respect his achievements and value his input. He most likely endorses and supports the coach, his methodology and his vision as being the way forward and understands that the way forward is not a linear progression, as it wasn't for him or his premiership winning team mates and club. Fortunately, Peter Gordon appears to understand this as well.

 

[wian]

I think our development of players still has a bit to be desired sadly...