Opinion Bring Back the Death Penalty

[ottoman]

I'm not for the death penalty and never will be.

But I do believe the adequate punishment for all rapists, sex offenders and child abusers is castration.

Sounds good........But
A particular lady has a vendetta against me for reasons unbeknown to me. She seduces me and then claims I raped her. I get castrated. This is now one very unhappy Ottoman. Castrated for a crime he didn't commit.

Besides being barbaric, capital forms of punishment can't be overturned should a person later be found not guilty. There are many cases of people being put to death (I know you are against death penalty) only later to have been found innocent of the crime.

Also how can we as a society say violence is terrible and then authorise our govt to perpetrate violence on others. If we find violence to be an unacceptable act then surely that should apply to everyone including the govt. Once you start making exceptions it becomes very hard to draw the line.

 

[Ant85]

Sounds good........But
A particular lady has a vendetta against me for reasons unbeknown to me. She seduces me and then claims I raped her. I get castrated. This is now one very unhappy Ottoman. Castrated for a crime he didn't commit.

Besides being barbaric, capital forms of punishment can't be overturned should a person later be found not guilty. There are many cases of people being put to death (I know you are against death penalty) only later to have been found innocent of the crime.

Also how can we as a society say violence is terrible and then authorise our govt to perpetrate violence on others. If we find violence to be an unacceptable act then surely that should apply to everyone including the govt. Once you start making exceptions it becomes very hard to draw the line.

Of course, I agree with you, I was just being facetious.

I do believe, however, that rapists/sex offenders are let off too lightly in our (well all) society.

I know female victims of rape and child abuse. A five year jail sentence for a rapist is a slap on the wrist compared to the lifetime sentences these women have to endure. The scars sometimes never heal.

 

[JB1975]

Of course, I agree with you, I was just being facetious.

I do believe, however, that rapists/sex offenders are let off too lightly in our (well all) society.

I know female victims of rape and child abuse. A five year jail sentence for a rapist is a slap on the wrist compared to the lifetime sentence these women have to endure. The scars sometimes never heal.

I think that it might be that scars are never scars, that for most people the wounds never become scars at all. Always raw. This is not to mention the experience of having to give evidence in court, an ordeal which seems to compound old and new traumas.

One factor which often seems to mitigate against heavier sentencing for sex offences is the circumstantial nature of the evidence against the accused, which often comes down to the word of one person against another. However, no doubt the law should come down harder in those cases where a clear and persistent pattern of offending can be established.

 

[Ant85]

I think that it might be that scars are never scars, that for most people the wounds never become scars at all. Always raw. This is not to mention the experience of having to give evidence in court, an ordeal which seems to compound old and new traumas.

As well as the stigma, no woman wants to be known as "the girl who was raped."

 

[Schraderbrau]

Then why should Tax-Payers pay to look after Child Rapists and Killers?

So you say the Government would just start Killing the Poor?

Having a death penalty system is more expensive than imprisoning someone for life fwiw.

If you have to have a death penalty then you have to have a due process to ensure no one who is innocent gets executed. Because of that in the US it is taking them like 10 years+ to actually execute people and much of this time is spent with legal appeals to all sorts of courts which obviously carries a huge cost (and fwiw in the US they have been known to still get it wrong and execute innocent people).

+ all of the human rights issues such as keeping people on death row for 10 years and how to actually humanely kill someone.

+ most of the literature suggests that death penalty is no deterrent to crime

+ it taxes poor people because of access to representation (this is a huge problem in the US).

+ the criminal justice process is not flawless and crucial players running the system do sometimes, intentionally and unintentionally, cause serious miscarriages of justice.

Basically if you want to understand why the death penalty will never work in Western democracies do some reading or watch some documentaries on how the death penalty operates in the US

 

[Schraderbrau]

One factor which often seems to mitigate against heavier sentencing for sex offences is the circumstantial nature of the evidence against the accused, which often comes down to the word of one person against another. However, no doubt the law should come down harder in those cases where a clear and persistent pattern of offending can be established.

That should be irrelevant once they've been found guilty. It is however the chief reason why (a) rape cases are so difficult to prove since beyond reasonable doubt makes it really tough to get a conviction when so many cases come down to his word v her word; and (b) rape cases are so traumatic for the victims because inevitably the defence will put them on trial by questioning their behavior in a really public and humiliating fashion. I'd guess that there are tons of sex offences that don't get reported to police or don't get past the investigative stage for those reasons.

The system is really not very good for victims of sex offences tbh.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Why did I click on this thread? When will I learn?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Arm and both legs too. Help them feel as defenceless as their victims.

Can't believe those 4 pieces of s**t will probably get away with this or serve 5-6 years while she'll be traumatised permanently.

Honestly. Our laws are crap, even India (granted its almost too little too late) are starting to give life sentences for rape crimes.

Poor girl.

There are places in the world that do exact those kind of punishments. I suspect you would not want to live in one of them.

 

[spartan-magpie]

There are places in the world that do exact those kind of punishments. I suspect you would not want to live in one of them.

I don't want to live in countries that base their law on religious ideals I don't follow.

I do want to live in a country, though, where criminals are punished severely.


You don't need to agree with me, nobody does.

IMO the harsher the penalty the more likely it will be a deterrent. Yes, it's over the top, something Im the first to admit, but housing and trying to rehab, in particular rapists, paedos and just vile people, doesn't seem to be fair on the people that have have to suffer for the remainder of their lives.

But I'm one of the few that has no faith in our justice system. Some think it's pretty good, and in comparison to many countries we are probably on the lower end of the crimes scale, but I'm a zero tolerance type of person. No one should ever have to be impacted in a brutal manner.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I don't want to live in countries that base their law on religious ideals I don't follow.

I do want to live in a country, though, where criminals are punished severely.


You don't need to agree with me, nobody does.

IMO the harsher the penalty the more likely it will be a deterrent. Yes, it's over the top, something Im the first to admit, but housing and trying to rehab, in particular rapists, paedos and just vile people, doesn't seem to be fair on the people that have have to suffer for the remainder of their lives.

But I'm one of the few that has no faith in our justice system. Some think it's pretty good, and in comparison to many countries we are probably on the lower end of the crimes scale, but I'm a zero tolerance type of person. No one should ever have to be impacted in a brutal manner.

So which crimes should be punished with the amputation of all limbs?

 

[spartan-magpie]

So which crimes should be punished with the amputation of all limbs?

None. One arm for eating, scratching, writing, or to do whatever they please with it.


Would serve as a great deterrent to people who want to commit atrocious crimes.


Don't get me wrong I know it sounds ridiculous..... But I'd think it would work.



But as we can tell, I'm extreme in my views and as pointed out by JB I probably have sadistic tendencies. Just my offering at a solution/deterrent to the many mindles numbskulls our kids and families have to share this world with.




Realistically, mandatory minimum sentences should be introduced and prison life should become more like it was in the old days... No comforts whatsoever. Bread, water, spam and couple of pieces of Any cheap and nasty fruit or veg available.
2x1 metre cell, small window, no tv, net, no gifts brought in, no privileges you'd get on the outside.

Maybe they should all be forced to pay their own way while in the prison too. 12-14 hours labour a day ( heck I do that and I'm don't owe society any debts).

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Realistically, mandatory minimum sentences should be introduced and prison life should become more like it was in the old days... No comforts whatsoever. Bread, water, spam and couple of pieces of Any cheap and nasty fruit or veg available.
2x1 metre cell, small window, no tv, net, no gifts brought in, no privileges you'd get on the outside.

Maybe they should all be forced to pay their own way while in the prison too. 12-14 hours labour a day ( heck I do that and I'm don't owe society any debts).

For which crimes?

 

[spartan-magpie]

For which crimes?

All crimes that have a negative impact on another person/s. Anything considered to be a serious crime. It's meant to be punishment - not rehabilitation as it's become.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

All crimes that have a negative impact on another person/s. Anything considered to be a serious crime. It's meant to be punishment - not rehabilitation as it's become.

So...amputation of a limb for assault?

 

[spartan-magpie]

So...amputation of a limb for assault?

Maybe you should read back the portion you quoted.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Maybe you should read back the portion you quoted.

Why can't you answer the question? It is very easy to express extremist views, but a bit tougher when questioned on them isn't it?

 

[spartan-magpie]

I can answer anything you like...

Ask the question. You quoted the second portion of my statement. The one where I said realistically we should at least have mandatory sentencing etc.

If your curious to which crimes I'd want amputation, ask it.

Amputations would be for the most severe crimes - things such as murder, rape, paedophilia, kidnapping and the like. And only in the case of 100% beyond a doubt type scenarios. For instance Jill meagre would be one such case. Open shut.


I don't find being questioned tough at all. Ask the question and I'll answer it.

i also wouldnt categorise my views as extremist. Extreme would be killing or torturing them. Removing their limbs would be done by surgeons using all the appropriate methods and the like. Would be very humane.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Amputations would be for the most severe crimes - things such as murder, rape, paedophilia, kidnapping and the like.

Rape but not sexual assault?
Murder but not manslaughter?
What about negligent driving occasioning death?
How about assault, where the victim ends up a tetraplegic?
How long would a kidnapper have to hold their victim before the punishment would be exacted?

 

[spartan-magpie]

Rape but not sexual assault?
Murder but not manslaughter?
What about negligent driving occasioning death?
How about assault, where the victim ends up a tetraplegic?
How long would a kidnapper have to hold their victim before the punishment would be exacted?

Do you want me to write a report? I said such as, I didn't include all crimes just listed some of the more serious ones.


If you want specifics be more specific in your questioning... Don't latch on to bits and pieces...

My suggestions are merely suggestions, and you realize this. You're just trying to be a smart arse, which is fine.


I didn't know I was meant to provide a 1000 page document regarding lengths, severity, and a list of all crimes that I'd like to punish. this is Bigfooty a few general statements. If you want specifics, as I said, be specific. Don't quote one thing and ask an unrelated question. Then question my response after it doesn't get what you were fishing for.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Do you want me to write a report? I said such as, I didn't include all crimes just listed some of the more serious ones.


If you want specifics be more specific in your questioning... Don't latch on to bits and pieces...

My suggestions are merely suggestions, and you realize this. You're just trying to be a smart arse, which is fine.


I didn't know I was meant to provide a 1000 page document regarding lengths, severity, and a list of all crimes that I'd like to punish. this is Bigfooty a few general statements. If you want specifics, as I said, be specific. Don't quote one thing and ask an unrelated question. Then question my response after it doesn't get what you were fishing for.

Don't be so defensive, I just want to know where you would draw the line, no one is asking for a thousand page document.

 

[spartan-magpie]

rape, murder, severe assaults, gross negligence (this includes corporates - their ability to hind behind corporate structures would become void in my never to exist world), rapes, child sex offenders and the like.

Only for the most serious of crimes. And as I said only in absolute cases.

 

[Collingwood pro]

rape, murder, severe assaults, gross negligence (this includes corporates - their ability to hind behind corporate structures would become void in my never to exist world), rapes, child sex offenders and the like.

Only for the most serious of crimes. And as I said only in absolute cases.

There is rarely absolute cases.

 

[spartan-magpie]

There is rarely absolute cases.

I don't know the statistics. I doubt it would be rare though..

 

[Collingwood pro]

I don't know the statistics. I doubt it would be rare though..

Perfect cases for extreme crimes are certainly not common and the reasons why people commit crimes is rarely straight forward. Actions of those who commit crimes such as rape or pedophilia usually have underlying issues such as abuse, anger issues, poverty, lack of education, poor impulse. Does it make these crimes any less horrific? No. But does violently murdering or dismembering someone for committing a crime actually solve anything? Or does it show us that as a society to advocate for such legal procedures we are nothing more than barbaric brutes looking for revenge?

 

[spartan-magpie]

Perfect cases for extreme crimes are certainly not common and the reasons why people commit crimes is rarely straight forward. Actions of those who commit crimes such as rape or pedophilia usually have underlying issues such as abuse, anger issues, poverty, lack of education, poor impulse. Does it make these crimes any less horrific? No. But does violently murdering or dismembering someone for committing a crime actually solve anything? Or does it show us that as a society to advocate for such legal procedures we are nothing more than barbaric brutes looking for revenge?

We send soldiers to fight wars for no good reason. Soldiers are fantastic, they do their jobs honorably. They still perform acts of barbarism, brutality, kill innocent people and the like. This is deemed acceptable though.