Brisbane 01-03 v Geelong 07-11 v Hawthorn 08-14.

[Hawk of ages]

when I was talking about the special assistance hawthorn received of the AFL I was referring to the priority picks that you received not once but twice.

with regard to trading fro the number 1 pick I was referring to the fact that hawthorn required early picks to build their premiership list, you cant get any earlier than number 1

I would also add that sides who finish down the bottom like hawthorn did dont just get an advantage with regards to the first round of they draft they also get a advantage with the 2nd,3rd and 4th rounds of the draft

No roughead is not ageing but in 2 years time when hodge,Mitchell,lake,Gibson,hale and Burgoyne are gone he and lewis will be to old to carry the team

This argument on the number one pick doesn't hold true. It's selective. Indicating we needed the number one pick to get us silverware ignores that we gave up the farm to get it - Two highly rated key position players (Croad and McPharlin) both around 21 yrs old. As much as hodge was important in achieving success, losing croad and mcpharlin was theoretically detrimental. You top up your list at one end and you dig a hole at the other.

Secondly, we butchered most of these early picks. Only Roughead played in the back to backs (apart from hodge). You can't say we relied on a series of high draft picks to win us premierships when the majority of them didn't play, (or mostly didn't contribute to the club in the slightest).

As for special assistance only rough and xavier ellis were free hits. Are you with a straight face going to argue that these two were the difference between 3 premierships and none (mind you ellis played the only good game of his career against your blokes in the 08 decider). I think you just find it difficult to admit that clever back end drafting, rookie list development and canny trading may have been the main factor in hawthorn's current success.

As for the rest of your sh!tfight with lethality, hawkas 1988 summed it up perfectly a few pages back. Leave it alone for a couple of years or so. Commenting on the ability of new players to replace old is just speculation. Dig it up in 2018 and one of you will get to have your told you so moment.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No, they didn't and nothing you have provided even alludes to the suggestion that they did. Hawthorn simply draft very well, picking up the likes of Bruest and Langford and Suckling in the rookie draft Shiels and Hill at Pick 30+, Gunston for a late first round pick and so on. The latest is Jed Anderson for Stephen Gilham Very clever drafting and trading which keeps the window alive while Geelong struggle to win finals for 3 years.

No mister Lethality ,Hawthorn required special assistance of the AFL in 2004 and 2005.Perhaps you could tell us what picks hawthorn had in those drafts ?

For yours and everyone else's viewing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_AFL_draft
https://www.google.com.au/#q=2005+afl+draft

Geelong might of struggled to win finals for three years , Hawthorn wont even be able to play finals during their rebuild because they cant function without number 1 picks and special AFL assistance

 

[Lethality]

No mister Lethality ,Hawthorn required special assistance of the AFL in 2004 and 2005.Perhaps you could tell us what picks hawthorn had in those drafts ?

I thought we agreed that just cut n pasting the same inane replies wasn't any type of argument, nor did making bizarre statements constitute reality outside of your individual imagination. No, Hawthorn did not require special assistance, I've already shown that. Move on already.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This argument on the number one pick doesn't hold true. It's selective. Indicating we needed the number one pick to get us silverware ignores that we gave up the farm to get it - Two highly rated key position players (Croad and McPharlin) both around 21 yrs old. As much as hodge was important in achieving success, losing croad and mcpharlin was theoretically detrimental. You top up your list at one end and you dig a hole at the other.

Secondly, we butchered most of these early picks. Only Roughead played in the back to backs (apart from hodge). You can't say we relied on a series of high draft picks to win us premierships when the majority of them didn't play, (or mostly didn't contribute to the club in the slightest).

As for special assistance only rough and xavier ellis were free hits. Are you with a straight face going to argue that these two were the difference between 3 premierships and none (mind you ellis played the only good game of his career against your blokes in the 08 decider). I think you just find it difficult to admit that clever back end drafting, rookie list development and canny trading may have been the main factor in hawthorn's current success.

As for the rest of your sh!tfight with lethality, hawkas 1988 summed it up perfectly a few pages back. Leave it alone for a couple of years or so. Commenting on the ability of new players to replace old is just speculation. Dig it up in 2018 and one of you will get to have your told you so moment.

You traded for the number 1 pick which was clever trading but non the less its still a number 1 pick. Also no club is going to do a trade like that today , clubs value draft picks much more higher than they did 13 years ago.To get a number 1 pick today you would have to trade an ablett or a hodge at their prime .

So what you are saying is that a club with early draft picks doesn't have a head start over a club didn't get so many early picks ? you had picks 1,2,3,5 and 6 .Geelong get nothing below number 7,simialr with Sydney.Just imagine how much stronger geelong and Sydney would be with those picks.

Also its not just early picks I the 1st round , you get earlier picks in the 2nd,3rd and 4th rounds.It also benefits all players in the draft when they are recruited alongside the nations best young talent. Even when some early picks don't go on to do much they are still extremely talented yound players who would set the bar high for those drafter with them.

 

[Lethality]

geelong_crazy26 getting reamed here.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I thought we agreed that just cut n pasting the same inane replies wasn't any type of argument, nor did making bizarre statements constitute reality outside of your individual imagination. No, Hawthorn did not require special assistance, I've already shown that. Move on already.

ahahhahahahahahahahhahaahah Sir please take do your research on the 2004 and 2005 draft.

Tell me what how did hawthorn acquire roughead and elis ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

geelong_crazy26 getting reamed here.

Speaking of renamed why did you change your name ? did you lose your temper because someone pointed put hawthorn required special assistance of the AFL on more than 1 occasion ?

no in all honesty Hodge-Podge = big footy legend please come back

 

[Lethality]

ahahhahahahahahahahhahaahah Sir please take do your research on the 2004 and 2005 draft.

Tell me what how did hawthorn acquire roughead and elis ?

None of that is 'special assistance'. Special assistance would be something that other clubs do not receive . . .

 

[WWSD]

ahahhahahahahahahahhahaahah Sir please take do your research on the 2004 and 2005 draft.

Tell me what how did hawthorn acquire roughead and ellis ?

The same way Richmond acquired Deledio, Bulldogs acquiring Griffen, Collingwood getting Thomas, Carlton getting Murphy.

Let's look at our success in the draft recently without having any high picks in the draft over the last seven years that's attributed to our recent success.

Matt Suckling: 2006 rookie draft pick 53
Taylor Duryea: 2009 national draft pick 69
Bradley Hill: 2011 national draft pick 33
Isaac Smith: 2010 national draft pick 19
Luke Breust: 2008 rookie draft pick 47
Ben Stratton: 2009 national draft pick 46
Liam Shiels: 2008 national draft pick 34
Paul Puopolo: 2010 national draft pick 66
Will Langford: 2010 rookie draft pick 85

So many steals there. What are you're thoughts on those picks that we were gifted by other clubs geelong_crazy26 ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The same way Richmond acquired Deledio, Bulldogs acquiring Griffen, Collingwood getting Thomas, Carlton getting Murphy.

Let's look at our success in the draft recently without having any high picks in the draft over the last seven years that's attributed to our recent success.

Matt Suckling: 2006 rookie draft pick 53
Taylor Duryea: 2009 national draft pick 69
Bradley Hill: 2011 national draft pick 33
Isaac Smith: 2010 national draft pick 19
Luke Breust: 2008 rookie draft pick 47
Ben Stratton: 2009 national draft pick 46
Liam Shiels: 2008 national draft pick 34
Paul Puopolo: 2010 national draft pick 66
Will Langford: 2010 rookie draft pick 85

So many steals there. What are you're thoughts on those picks that we were gifted by other clubs geelong_crazy26 ?

That's a good list but its not going to get you a premiership, no top end talent .They would also not be as good if you didn't have the high draft picks. Once again you didn't just get early 1st round picks ,you got early 2nd,3rd and 4th round draft picks.

Geelong and Sydney build premiership sides without the early picks hawthorn had

 

[geelong_crazy26]

None of that is 'special assistance'. Special assistance would be something that other clubs do not receive . . .

no its not normal to get 2 sets of priority draft picks, it means that you are not capable of drafting players without special emergency assistance

 

[Hawkas1988]

That's a good list but its not going to get you a premiership, no top end talent .They would also not be as good if you didn't have the high draft picks. Once again you didn't just get early 1st round picks ,you got early 2nd,3rd and 4th round draft picks.

Geelong and Sydney build premiership sides without the early picks hawthorn had

This is pathetic. Arguing about how premiership sides were made? Where is the respect for these teams achieving what they've done so.

If you wanna play this stupid game, then what about Cola for the Swans, what about the cats getting Scarlett, Ablett Jr and Hawkins for peanuts due to the father son rules back then.

It's so pathetic diminishing a clubs achievements by trying to claim how they were fortunate due to certaim aspects.

What about how Carlton and Melbourne? How have they gone with priority picks? A clubs culture, structures, leadership and quality of people within the club attribute and matter far more than a couple of picks.

This thread has become an embarrassment, not just by you but by other posts too.

 

[drummond2fevola]

Thread was always destined for a Hawks v Cats s**t fight.

I'm glad the Lions side is better than both, so suck it!

 

[Lethality]

no its not normal to get 2 sets of priority draft picks

You've already had your arse handed to you in this thread so I'll be brief.

Carlton, Melbourne, St.Kilda, Richmond, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Bulldogs all got priority picks. Hawthorn were the only team to successfully build an era in this millenium though, so it has to be due to good drafting and management, rather than the priority picks which all those other clubs got as well, not to mention the special concessions given to Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast, and the home ground concessions given to Geelong being the only Vic team that plays on its training ground.

So far from being special, 7 clubs from Melbourne means that it's the norm. Even if you count clubs from outside Melbourne it's 7 out of 16 at the time, and that was normal as well, approaching 50 percent.

No it looks like you'll have to find another bogeyman to blame Hawthorn's ownership of Geelong over.

 

[jakefooty23]

Brisbane>Geelong>Hawthorn

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You've already had your arse handed to you in this thread so I'll be brief.

Carlton, Melbourne, St.Kilda, Richmond, Hawthorn, Collingwood, Bulldogs all got priority picks. Hawthorn were the only team to successfully build an era in this millenium though, so it has to be due to good drafting and management, rather than the priority picks which all those other clubs got as well, not to mention the special concessions given to Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast, and the home ground concessions given to Geelong being the only Vic team that plays on its training ground.

So far from being special, 7 clubs from Melbourne means that it's the norm. Even if you count clubs from outside Melbourne it's 7 out of 16 at the time, and that was normal as well, approaching 50 percent.

No it looks like you'll have to find another bogeyman to blame Hawthorn's ownership of Geelong over.

This is pathetic. Arguing about how premiership sides were made? Where is the respect for these teams achieving what they've done so.

If you wanna play this stupid game, then what about Cola for the Swans, what about the cats getting Scarlett, Ablett Jr and Hawkins for peanuts due to the father son rules back then.

It's so pathetic diminishing a clubs achievements by trying to claim how they were fortunate due to certaim aspects.

What about how Carlton and Melbourne? How have they gone with priority picks? A clubs culture, structures, leadership and quality of people within the club attribute and matter far more than a couple of picks.

This thread has become an embarrassment, not just by you but by other posts too.

that's all well and good sir but you still needed special assistance of the AFL to build your premiership team ,because other clubs had special assistance and failed does not change this fact one bit .

clearly the best 2 clubs of the last 10 years are Geelong,hawthorn and Sydney. Hawthorn required special assistance from the AFL to build their premiership sides ,Geelong and Sydney did not.

Sir Geelong gets to play 11 home games a year like all 17 other clubs

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This is pathetic. Arguing about how premiership sides were made? Where is the respect for these teams achieving what they've done so.

If you wanna play this stupid game, then what about Cola for the Swans, what about the cats getting Scarlett, Ablett Jr and Hawkins for peanuts due to the father son rules back then.

It's so pathetic diminishing a clubs achievements by trying to claim how they were fortunate due to certaim aspects.

What about how Carlton and Melbourne? How have they gone with priority picks? A clubs culture, structures, leadership and quality of people within the club attribute and matter far more than a couple of picks.

This thread has become an embarrassment, not just by you but by other posts too.

Sir perhaps you should put what I said in context , mister lethality claims that hawthorn build a premiership side and they can do it again without any decline. I simply pointed out that hawthorn required early draft picks which included priority tpicks to do so. Hawthorn have not at any point demonstrated that they have the capability to build a premiership side with no early draft picks

 

[WWSD]

Sir perhaps you should put what I said in context , mister lethality claims that hawthorn build a premiership side and they can do it again without any decline. I simply pointed out that hawthorn required early draft picks which included priority tpicks to do so. Hawthorn have not at any point demonstrated that they have the capability to build a premiership side with no early draft picks

Man you are truly ignorant. How many of our premiership players in 2013-14 we high draft picks? Only Roughead and Lewis were high draft picks. The rest of our team has players from other clubs and late third-fourth round picks and rookies who've gone onto become decent players.

First round draft picks
Hodge
Roughead
Lewis

Rookies:
Suckling
Breust
Langford

Second Round picks
Smith
Hill
Birchall
Rioli

Third Round picks
Mitchell
Stratton
Shiels

Fourth Round picks
Duryea
Puopolo

Players acquired from other clubs
Gibson
McEvoy
Burgoyne
Lake
Gunston
Hale
Spangher
Simpkin

 

[Hawkas1988]

Sir perhaps you should put what I said in context , mister lethality claims that hawthorn build a premiership side and they can do it again without any decline. I simply pointed out that hawthorn required early draft picks which included priority tpicks to do so. Hawthorn have not at any point demonstrated that they have the capability to build a premiership side with no early draft picks

I actually agreed with some of your earlier statements and now you're just showing how bitter you are about Hawthorn's success. This thread needs to move on.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Man you are truly ignorant. How many of our premiership players in 2013-14 we high draft picks? Only Roughead and Lewis were high draft picks. The rest of our team has players from other clubs and late third-fourth round picks and rookies who've gone onto become decent players.

First round draft picks
Hodge
Roughead
Lewis

Rookies:
Suckling
Breust
Langford

Second Round picks
Smith
Hill
Birchall
Rioli

Third Round picks
Mitchell
Stratton
Shiels

Fourth Round picks
Duryea
Puopolo

Players acquired from other clubs
Gibson
McEvoy
Burgoyne
Lake
Gunston
Hale
Spangher
Simpkin

its not that simplistic, you have to factor a few other things in

1.you also get earlier 2nd,3rd and 4th round picks
2.Early draft picks are always elite young talent and will make other young players drafted at the same time period better
3.You had opportunities presented to that your 2 main rivals Geelong and Sydney did not have.Give Geelong and Sydney these early picks and see how good they can be

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I actually agreed with some of your earlier statements and now you're just showing how bitter you are about Hawthorn's success. This thread needs to move on.

I have nothing but good things to say about what hawthorn has done over recent periods , I firmly believe that their are three great clubs , no surprise who they are ,

Not in order
Geelong
Hawthorn
Sydney

Neither of these 3 can constantly, contend for a premiership and the only club that has a supporter on here calming they can is hawthorn, so I pointed out that hawthorn have not yet demonstrated they can build a premiership side without early picks which is simply a fact

 

[Lethality]

that's all well and good sir but you still needed special assistance of the AFL to build your premiership team

It's like you don't even know what the word 'special' means. If nearly half the competition had the same priority picks, and the ENTIRE competition is subject to the same rules, it is not 'special'.

You might be special though

 

[geelong_crazy26]

It's like you don't even know what the word 'special' means. If nearly half the competition had the same priority picks, and the ENTIRE competition is subject to the same rules, it is not 'special'.

You might be special though

so why did the AFL give hawthorn those priority picks ? both Geelong and Sydney never got any

 

[Lethality]

so why did the AFL give hawthorn those priority picks ? both Geelong and Sydney never got any

Because that's the draft system that all clubs were subject to lol. Might as well ask why the AFL gave Geelong Pick 7 in 2001.

By the way Geelong and Sydney DO get special treatment, Geelong the only Victorian club that plays on their training ground and Sydney with the COLA. THAT is special.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Because that's the draft system that all clubs were subject to lol. Might as well ask why the AFL gave Geelong Pick 7 in 2001.

By the way Geelong and Sydney DO get special treatment, Geelong the only Victorian club that plays on their training ground and Sydney with the COLA. THAT is special.

but why did hawthorn just get given 2 picks down the bottom ?

Geelong get the worst deal of anyone when it comes to home grounds. We are the only club that has to play 2 home games at a ground (ethiad) we don't like so in other words were the only club in the afl that has to use a 3rd home ground which is the biggest joke in football.Why Geelong cant play all their home games in geelong except the hawthorn game I don't understand.

To further add Geelong is the only club that cant play finals at its home ground ,the only exception being when the MCG is unavailable and were up against a WA or SA team

The AFL has screwed us over big time with home grounds