Brisbane 01-03 v Geelong 07-11 v Hawthorn 08-14.

[geelong_crazy26]

But the two most important games that bookend that run of successive wins was not won by Hawthorn. The two important games last season were both won by Hawthorn too.

Significantly better is a stretch to say the least.

Sorry forgot to add in that run of 11 wins in a row included a 6 goal finals win that costed hawthorn a spot in the grand final. Yes beating someone 11 times in a row is domination, you can't accomplish that unless your significantly better. Including a six goal finals win. Try playing someone at a game your even talent with and beat them 11 times in a row, it doesn't happen unless one is significantly better

 

[The King!]

Does this sort of debate matter?

I think winning in a row has been proven to be hard so for now brisbane, hawthorn , geelong

 

[Hawkk]

So it seems the Cats have been SHUT OUT of the conversation. Such a shame

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...the-hawks-peak-too-early-20150407-1mfnuj.html


The Hawks' Brisbane-like dominance, although performed in a less brutal but no less damaging fashion, seemed to flow naturally into an old debate: where does this Hawthorn team, spanning from 2008 to now, sit in comparison to the Lions of 2001-2004.

Brown's candid answer, more candid than most ex-Brisbane players or coaches have been on this topic, was a reflection of just how complete the Hawks looked on Monday.

"They are right up there, and if they go in and win a premiership this year you would nearly put them, certainly equal with Brisbane and [they] nearly goes past them if they win three in a row," Brown said.

"That would be four over the last [eight] years. They've just got great players on every line, they've complemented their back line, they've finished off the last piece with James Frawley coming in."

A similar debate was at its highest midway through 2004 when the Lions, having already conquered the three-peat, were being compared to the great Hawthorn teams that won five premierships between 1983 and 1991.

A common conclusion was that, if the Lions were to win four in a row, then they would have to be considered the best.

 

[The King!]

So it seems the Cats have been SHUT OUT of the conversation. Such a shame

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...the-hawks-peak-too-early-20150407-1mfnuj.html


The Hawks' Brisbane-like dominance, although performed in a less brutal but no less damaging fashion, seemed to flow naturally into an old debate: where does this Hawthorn team, spanning from 2008 to now, sit in comparison to the Lions of 2001-2004.

Brown's candid answer, more candid than most ex-Brisbane players or coaches have been on this topic, was a reflection of just how complete the Hawks looked on Monday.

"They are right up there, and if they go in and win a premiership this year you would nearly put them, certainly equal with Brisbane and [they] nearly goes past them if they win three in a row," Brown said.

"That would be four over the last [eight] years. They've just got great players on every line, they've complemented their back line, they've finished off the last piece with James Frawley coming in."

A similar debate was at its highest midway through 2004 when the Lions, having already conquered the three-peat, were being compared to the great Hawthorn teams that won five premierships between 1983 and 1991.

A common conclusion was that, if the Lions were to win four in a row, then they would have to be considered the best.

Hard to argue with any of that

No shame in geelong falling out of the conversation they had a great era, but to win multiple years in a row has been proven so hard to do.

 

[Hawkk]

http://m.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-p...ox-footy-decides/story-e6frf3e3-1227294584469

Hodge v Voss (Hodge)
Black v Mitchell (Black)
Burgoyne v Power (Burgoyne)
Lake v Lynch (Lake)
Franklin v Leppitsh (Franklin)
Michael v Roughead (Roughead)

These match ups! Hawks seem to have the spine while the Lions have them in the midfield (not surprising as they had 3 Brownlow Medallists rolling through the midfield)

All up Fox Footy puts it at 12-10 in favour of Hawthorn

Hodge over Voss is massively controversial

 

[The King!]

It is a big call hodge over voss

Id go lynch over lake personally

 

[beta_condition]

Hodge v Voss (Voss)
Black v Mitchell (Mitch)
Burgoyne v Power (Burgoyne)
Lake v Lynch (Lynch)
Franklin v Leppitsh (Franklin)
Michael v Roughead (Roughead)
Bradshaw v Gibson (Bradshaw)

Least how I see it

 

[cotter101]

Yeah, I'd go Voss over Hodge and Lynch over Lake.

 

[The Edukator]

A individuals Franklin/Roughie are better than leppa and Michael but jeez they were two great key backs that produced more than the sum of their parts iyam.

I'd go with a 50-50 split between battles won and lost on the day.

 

[The King!]

Surely buddy moves to sydney at half time in the theoretical game

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Brisbane the best IMO out of those 3. I'd probably go with Geelong second just but if Hawthorn go back to back to back and win another flag this year, then I'd bump them into second.

 

[Engimal]

Geelong. I've never seen a team walk over AFL sides like they did, at their peak.

 

[Hawkk]

Brisbane the best IMO out of those 3. I'd probably go with Geelong second just but if Hawthorn go back to back to back and win another flag this year, then I'd bump them into second.

Fair enough.

But would 4 flags in 8 years (including a threepeat) trump the Lions threepeat. Whilst Hawthorn missed the finals in 2009 the Lions finished with the wooden spoon in 1998 (after making a PF in '96) with effectively the same squad as '01

 

[Dom PC]

Hodge over Voss? Their Vic bias is showing there... a big WTF verdict if you ask me.

Also Langford over Headland as well?

I didn't mind some of the match ups. But seriously, some of those verdicts....

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Fair enough.

But would 4 flags in 8 years (including a threepeat) trump the Lions threepeat. Whilst Hawthorn missed the finals in 2009 the Lions finished with the wooden spoon in 1998 (after making a PF in '96) with effectively the same squad as '01

Yep, that's a valid point mate. Certainly on paper, 4 premierships would be better than 3.

I think (in my head) the way I sort of look at it is when comparing the teams; Hawthorn (of the 3) have had the best list management - hence why they have been able to have such amazing success (with possibly 4 flags in an 8 year period).

I could be wrong (please correct me if I'm mistaken) on this but I would have thought the 2014 Hawthorn premiership side would resemble a vastly different looking side to the 2008 team. Off the top of my head there would be no Crawford, Croad, Guerra, Bateman, Franklin, Dew, Ellis, Williams, Renouf in the 2014 side - probably a few I've missed but the point I'm trying to make is there must be quite a turnover of talent from the 2008 flag side to the 2014 team.

Whilst Brisbane and Geelong's premiership teams have been 'relatively' unchanged (so I would assume both have a larger number of '3 time premiership' players than there are at Hawthorn presently (unless they do succeed in the threepeat this year haha). If you were to compare the total number of 'premiership' players at all 3 clubs, I would guess Hawthorn have the most players (of the 3) - which to me (and no disrespect intended), kind of takes away a bit of the 'legendary team' tag.

So in a way, I might say Hawthorn have been the best 'club' of the trio whilst not necessarily having the best 'team' (if that makes sense?)

 

[Hawkk]

Hodge over Voss? Their Vic bias is showing there... a big WTF verdict if you ask me.

Also Langford over Headland as well?

I didn't mind some of the match ups. But seriously, some of those verdicts....

I must say they were very generous to Hawthorn in the comparison.

Lake v Lynch is another comparison that you could very easily mount a case for the Lions player

 

[KissKiss]

Hodge over Voss?? Hale over Keating?? Im not sure about some of these decisions.

I do think that if Hawks win this year they are probably past Brisbane but Im not sure about some of these matchups

 

[Hawkk]

Hodge over Voss?? Hale over Keating?? Im not sure about some of these decisions.

I do think that if Hawks win this year they are probably past Brisbane but Im not sure about some of these matchups

That's a shocker. Most Hawthorn fans don't even rate Hale a starting 22 player let alone better than Keating (probably one of the best big game finals ruckmen in recent memory)

 

[WWSD]

Hodge over Voss?? Hale over Keating?? Im not sure about some of these decisions.

I do think that if Hawks win this year they are probably past Brisbane but Im not sure about some of these matchups

Agree. Whilst Hale has been very good for us over the last three years, he isn't as influential as what Keating was for the Lions especially during the finals when Keating dominated.

 

[The King!]

Clarkson v Matthews is the big battle for mine

 

[Dom PC]

Clarkson v Matthews is the big battle for mine

Yeah, I agree.

Tactically I'd give it to Clarko, his tactics are close to the most important piece of the Hawthorns success IMO.

Player management wise (not from a recruiting perspective), I'd go with Matthews. Anyone who could manage the characters we had in those premiership teams deserves some credit.

 

[The King!]

Yeah, I agree.

Tactically I'd give it to Clarko, his tactics are close to the most important piece of the Hawthorns success IMO.

Player management wise (not from a recruiting perspective), I'd go with Matthews. Anyone who could manage the characters we had in those premiership teams deserves some credit.

Matthews in everything i read was more a one man show, do it my way, maybe a great man motivator with a clear plan.

Clarkson to me comes across as this super tactician and thinker of the game who empowers and trusts his staff.

I would agree with you on the above, i think if the s**t hit the fan match day i would want clarkson as my coach more so than Lethal

 

[Hawkk]

Matthews in everything i read was more a one man show, do it my way, maybe a great man motivator with a clear plan.

Clarkson to me comes across as this super tactician and thinker of the game who empowers and trusts his staff.

I would agree with you on the above, i think if the s**t hit the fan match day i would want clarkson as my coach more so than Lethal

Perhaps unrelated but if you look at the time it took the great coaches of the modern era to get to 3 premierships (i.e. coaches that coached at least one of their 3 flags in the AFL era):

Clarkson achieved his 3rd premiership in his 10th season as coach
Sheedy achieved his 3rd premiership in his 12th season as coach
Matthews achieved his 3rd premiership in his 14th season as coach
Parkin achieved his 4th premiership in his 18th season as coach (his 3rd flag in 1982 took 5 years)
Malthouse achieved his 3rd premiership in his 26th season as coach

Clarkson's record as coach (considering he started off with a skeleton list in 2005-06) is scary. Considering he is only 46 years old he could well coach for another 10 to 15 more years.

If he 'did a Lyon', left Hawthorn and became a 'finisher coach' across the league he could end up with 4 or 5 flags! I cannot believe that a rookie coach that has won 3 flags and made a 4th GF (lost by under 2 kicks) in a decade has never won the coaches award.

Anyway I count 5 future hall of famers in this current Hawthorn run (Hodge, Mitchell, Borgoyne, Roughead and Franklin) while I counted 7 at the Lions (Voss, Black, Acker, Brown, Lynch, Leppitsch, Lappin) however I regard Clarkson's coaching staff to be vastly superior to the Lions.

A potential match up between the clubs would come down to the brawn and raw talent of the Lions team against the structure of precise kicking of this current Hawthorn team.

 

[The King!]

Perhaps unrelated but if you look at the time it took the great coaches of the modern era to get to 3 premierships (i.e. coaches that coached at least one of their 3 flags in the AFL era):

Clarkson achieved his 3rd premiership in his 10th season as coach
Sheedy achieved his 3rd premiership in his 12th season as coach
Matthews achieved his 3rd premiership in his 14th season as coach
Parkin achieved his 4th premiership in his 18th season as coach (his 3rd flag in 1982 took 5 years)
Malthouse achieved his 3rd premiership in his 26th season as coach

Clarkson's record as coach (considering he started off with a skeleton in 2005-06) is scary. Considering he is only 46 years old he could well coach for another 10 to 15 more years.

If he 'did a Lyon', left Hawthorn after his contract was up and became a 'finisher coach' he could end up with 4 or 5 flags!

Clarkson also coaches in a era designed for teams to rise and fall

Parkin (taking nothing away) for instance coached when some clubs could just go buy who they needed, especially from other state leagues

Malthouses pales a little, well a lot on the above numbers, but his overall work at the dogs and building that eagles side at that time in particular were excellent

But scary part about Clarkson is that he is unlikely done at his current club and then yeah imagine if he decides to be a career coach and drift around to teams on the cusp which he could easily do

 

[dickster]

Yep.

If Hawks go Back2Back2Back then they of course become number 1.

The Hawks need to win 4 in a row before they're considered better than the Lions