Bruce Francis

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
rfctiger74 said:
Fwiw he comes across to be as a sincere guy, who has done a lot of hard work and put together some decent interpretations of available facts. However his obsession with the case has seriously narrowed his ability to observe things impartially, and his desire to find proof under every rock is seeing him make some thin to ludicrous claims. The later unfortunately makes the ability to give proper credibility to the former hard. Unfair, yes, but you get weighed by the sum of your works, and the sheer obsessiveness he has now means all his work is tainted by this
Click to expand...
Have you read all his work?
 
Tiger2709 said:
No I tried to find one but couldn't sin the time I had so I may well be wrong, it was mentioned and I was pretty sure there was some proof of this but I will have to search a bit further if I cant find it Ill delete the post.
Click to expand...
Maybe you're thinking of Hird's lawyer billing him for time spent briefing the Hun? Very different to what you were claiming but easy enough to make the mistake
 
rfctiger74 said:
Tbh I don't think Francis is in the Hird or the EFC camp

You don't employ a suicidal obsessive shut in with no experience in the afl, supplements, WADA regulation, or the law, why you are in a fight to save your career or club

Fwiw he comes across to be as a sincere guy, who has done a lot of hard work and put together some decent interpretations of available facts. However his obsession with the case has seriously narrowed his ability to observe things impartially, and his desire to find proof under every rock is seeing him make some thin to ludicrous claims. The later unfortunately makes the ability to give proper credibility to the former hard. Unfair, yes, but you get weighed by the sum of your works, and the sheer obsessiveness he has now means all his work is tainted by this
Click to expand...

Fair enough post, at a guess i would say once he gets involved in something he does get obsessed about it, OCD at a guess. ( good trait for a opening batsman)

I would say much of his obsession and vitriol towards ASADA, the AFL, caro etc was because he thought the more he delved, the more tainting of Hird and Essendon was apparent.

I believe that when he started he has no bias to either side ( or 3 sides or whatever it is now)
 

Log in to remove this ad.

kfc1 said:
Have you read all his work?
Click to expand...

Only what was posted here and on your board. Some of it is good, but a lot of it reads like someone trying to plug random bits of info to prove predetermined views he has
 
Gigantor said:
Proof of the AFL using the media?

Where do you think those leaks of SMS and text messages came from?

It's the AFL who collected that evidence for ASADA.

But as Middleton confirmed, ASADA could only collect it with the AFL's help, and with the AFL not having to comply with the privacy and confidentiality provisions of the NAD Scheme, the AFL was free to leak evidence to whoever the hell it wanted - and did so for as long as it thought it was worthwhile.

Do we not all accept that Caro acted as the AFL's mouthpiece throughout?

Once the AFL didn't need to swing public opinion (from the start of this year), Caro's stories basically dried up.

EFC and Hird may have tried to fight back (and who wouldn't), but compared to the AFL, let's be honest, they were not in the game in any way, shape or form.
Click to expand...

I asked for proof not "where do you think" that means nothing, I'm neither saying they did or didn't but is there any real proof of this occurring?

It seemed in many of her articles that the evidence she gained was leaking from someone at Essendon, but lets not forget Essendon is part of the AFL as well.

I'm no great fan of Carro to be honest in fact I don't like many if any of the so called journos involved in this saga, to many opinions not enough fact, but she would have had to have at least one contact somewhere within the AFL I agree, that doesn't mean the AFL were actively leaking for the purpose of bringing down Hird, from what I have seen everyone involved with James has been brought down except James himself, you may be right I would just like to see something verifiable.
 
rfctiger74 said:
Only what was posted here and on your board. Some of it is good, but a lot of it reads like someone trying to plug random bits of info to prove predetermined views he has
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I am yet to fully dissect it all myself - the good thing is he is rather good at referencing where facts came from so you can make your own take on things if you don't agree with his conclusions.
 
Gigantor said:
Out of curiosity, what are examples of his "ludicrous claimes"?
Click to expand...

His notion that Hird is clear of all blame, and it mostly lies with the afl. He bends over backwards to excuse Hird of any responsibility with his talk of matrices, but it ignores some pretty simple facts.

In charge or not:

Hird knew about the program
Hird warned about the risks of the program and mandated guidelines
Hird was regularly updated on the program
Hird was aware of "wrong stuff" being on site

Regardless of where he was in the decision making process, Hird must bare some of the responsibility at a minimum for inaction and lack of leadership
 
rfctiger74 said:
His notion that Hird is clear of all blame, and it mostly lies with the afl. He bends over backwards to excuse Hird of any responsibility with his talk of matrices, but it ignores some pretty simple facts.

In charge or not:

Hird knew about the program
Hird warned about the risks of the program and mandated guidelines
Hird was regularly updated on the program
Hird was aware of "wrong stuff" being on site

Regardless of where he was in the decision making process, Hird must bare some of the responsibility at a minimum for inaction and lack of leadership
Click to expand...

I actually agree the whole matrix argument is starting to delve into other-worldliness. There might be some basis to it, but I think it's an argument you can only take so far.
 
Tiger2709 said:
I asked for proof not "where do you think" that means nothing, I'm neither saying they did or didn't but is there any real proof of this occurring?

It seemed in many of her articles that the evidence she gained was leaking from someone at Essendon, but lets not forget Essendon is part of the AFL as well.

I'm no great fan of Carro to be honest in fact I don't like many if any of the so called journos involved in this saga, to many opinions not enough fact, but she would have had to have at least one contact somewhere within the AFL I agree, that doesn't mean the AFL were actively leaking for the purpose of bringing down Hird, from what I have seen everyone involved with James has been brought down except James himself, you may be right I would just like to see something verifiable.
Click to expand...

But the leaks of SMS and text messages could only have come from the one place.

How about the whole charge sheet palaver?

People actually believed the AFL were intending to use it as a charge sheet, including intelligent people on this very board.

At no stage was the AFL the slightest bit interested in using the charge sheet as a charge sheet.

It served one purpose only (and it served it very well).
 
rfctiger74 said:
His notion that Hird is clear of all blame, and it mostly lies with the afl. He bends over backwards to excuse Hird of any responsibility with his talk of matrices, but it ignores some pretty simple facts.

In charge or not:

Hird knew about the program
Hird warned about the risks of the program and mandated guidelines
Hird was regularly updated on the program
Hird was aware of "wrong stuff" being on site

Regardless of where he was in the decision making process, Hird must bare some of the responsibility at a minimum for inaction and lack of leadership
Click to expand...

Agree with the bulk of this, agree that the blame lies with the AFL but for a different reason, they thought they were doing the right thing at the time, but hindsight disagrees.
 
Gigantor said:
But the leaks of SMS and text messages could only have come from the one place.

How about the whole charge sheet palaver?

People actually believed the AFL were intending to use it as a charge sheet, including intelligent people on this very board.

At no stage was the AFL the slightest bit interested in using the charge sheet as a charge sheet.

It served one purpose only (and it served it very well).
Click to expand...

Not really, I have no doubt the AFL did leak but I also know Dank leaked stuff aswell. Shots across the bow
 
fabulousphil said:
Agree with the bulk of this, agree that the blame lies with the AFL but for a different reason, they thought they were doing the right thing at the time, but hindsight disagrees.
Click to expand...

To use someone's term (can't remember who, it might have been BF or Hardie), the AFL tried to "finesse" things at the start (optics, etc)

Then we take a look at the NRL. Did bloody nothing. I mean quite literally, nothing. And they were congratulated for the manner in which they handled it! (including allowing Cronulla to play finals before they copped their 3 week holiday the following season)

It's a mad, mad, mad world.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

rfctiger74 said:
His notion that Hird is clear of all blame, and it mostly lies with the afl. He bends over backwards to excuse Hird of any responsibility with his talk of matrices, but it ignores some pretty simple facts.

In charge or not:

Hird knew about the program
Hird warned about the risks of the program and mandated guidelines
Hird was regularly updated on the program
Hird was aware of "wrong stuff" being on site

Regardless of where he was in the decision making process, Hird must bare some of the responsibility at a minimum for inaction and lack of leadership
Click to expand...
Hird has already copped a 1 year suspension for 'governance' which embraces the above
 
kfc1 said:
Hird has already copped a 1 year suspension for 'governance' which embraces the above
Click to expand...

And Francis thinks the afl will be paying it all back when Hird is proven innocent of any issues.

As I said, he goes too far
 
Gigantor said:
But the leaks of SMS and text messages could only have come from the one place.

How about the whole charge sheet palaver?

People actually believed the AFL were intending to use it as a charge sheet, including intelligent people on this very board.

At no stage was the AFL the slightest bit interested in using the charge sheet as a charge sheet.

It served one purpose only (and it served it very well).
Click to expand...

Not totally disagreeing with what your saying, but it could be just a leak within the AFL rather than the AFL itself.

I think we all agree that at the end of this the AFL really needs to be investigated, it's not just this case there was the Melbourne tanking rubbish and it goes on and on, it's time the supporters owned the game again not just a few of the AFL old boys always backing each other up.

There needs to be some transparency in what is happening, without us and our memberships and foxtel subscriptions etc the AFL would be just a local football competition.

Unfortunately the likelihood is they will close up shop again and continue to change our great game without once consulting we the owners, they are no more than a mini FIFA and we have seen what Blatter and his cronies are doing to that game.
 
Laphroaig said:
Good. Dank stated in a formal interview, not with some bullshit blogger with Red and Black bedsheets, that he used TB4 on the players.

Game over then.

Seriously, you love the bloke and can't see through him? Then **** off to Bomber Blitz and you can sit adoringly at his feet.
Click to expand...

LOL. Your delusion and repetition isn't enough for everyone.
 
About July 2011:A disgruntled ex-Newcastle rugby league player’s girlfriend dobbed her ex in for taking pills and the ACC decided to investigate it. At about the same time (27 July 2011) Hird asked an ASADA official about peptypes. He didn't know they were called peptides. The ASADA official told his boss about Hird's inquiry and ASADA notified Brett Clothier at the AFL.

29 July 2011: Clothier phoned Essendon’s general manager – football operation, Paul Hamilton, and asked him to bring Hird to AFL House. Calling Hamilton indicates Clothier / AFL knew Hamilton was higher up the ladder than Hird. Hamilton was on the EFC executive and Hird wasn’t.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top