Mega Thread Buckley coaching mega thread volume II

Smoothness

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Leigh mathews replaced by tony shaw.Tony shaw replaced by mick malthouse. Its not so much winning a premiership its constantly getting your team into top 4 then its up to the players to want to win a flag.
 

ClaytonM

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Golden boy coaches.Watson -fail.Hird -fail. Voss-fail Buckley? Looking like a fail. A lot of defender players make good coaches for some reason.

I could list 'non golden boy' coaches who have failed. The issue is whether he can coach and until he has a better list and better run of injuries we cannot really judge.

Malthouse as an experienced coach took 10 years to win a flag. How long you going to give Buckley?
 
Yeh they have been terrible, HOWEVER Sir Alex Ferguson retired out of his own free will. We on the other hand basically sacked Mick Malthouse. Just go to show when you make changes when you are at or near the top the consequences can be disastrous.

The other teams are still laughing at what we did. Simply idiotic management.

At the risk of going old ground, the coach and manager changes at Collingwood and Man U, whilst being due to different causes, have similarities in terms of the effect on performance. I think it demonstrates how difficult it can for someone new be to take over a successful team.
 
Yeh they have been terrible, HOWEVER Sir Alex Ferguson retired out of his own free will. We on the other hand basically sacked Mick Malthouse. Just go to show when you make changes when you are at or near the top the consequences can be disastrous.

The other teams are still laughing at what we did. Simply idiotic management.
Actually we didn't basically 'sack' MM but we should have. That's what you can blame Eddie for.
 

THATSGOLD

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Golden boy coaches.Watson -fail.Hird -fail. Voss-fail Buckley? Looking like a fail. A lot of defender players make good coaches for some reason.
Good defensive units win flags. Since Bucks came he took an All Australian out of the back line and started using Keeffe back there which has been a huge failed in regards to defence.
 

Ant85

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The system is designed for teams to rise and fall. You need to accept that at some stage the system will get you. Doesn't mean you have to like it but it is virtually inevitable.

I'm aware of the system we have, but to keep evoking it as the reason for our downfall is a bit of a cop out.

It's a matter of working the system by having an effective in-house system at the club to mitigate the "fall" and capitalise on the "rise".

Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney are examples of clubs that have managed to rejuvenate their lists - when by your account they should've fallen ala the league's rise/fall system - and still remain competitive/contenders.

West Coast is an example of a team that fluctuates quite spectacularly - falls dramatically low, then rises and snatches a flag every so often.

What model are we trying to pursue, and what increases our chances of winning a flag - which is difficult to win, as you say?

Should we take a 2004-2005-like crash so we can be competitive for the next 7 years? Or should we transition our list while remaining competitive?

I think the point of contention here is that we had a list post-2011 that was competitive, if not contending. Ed/Bucks argument is that that list was only going to provide short-term success, and thus have decided to take a dive in ladder position in order to prepare for long-term success.

I'm not entirely sold by that argument, given the calibre of players we had, but I'm willing to wait and see how it unfolds.
 

Smoothness

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I'm aware of the system we have, but to keep evoking it as the reason for our downfall is a bit of a cop out.

It's a matter of working the system by having an effective in-house system at the club to mitigate the "fall" and capitalise on the "rise".

Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney are examples of clubs that have managed to rejuvenate their lists - when by your account they should've fallen ala the league's rise/fall system - and still remain competitive/contenders.

West Coast is an example of a team that fluctuates quite spectacularly - falls dramatically low, then rises and snatches a flag every so often.

What model are we trying to pursue, and what increases our chances of winning a flag - which is difficult to win, as you say?

Should we take a 2004-2005-like crash so we can be competitive for the next 7 years? Or should we transition our list while remaining competitive?

I think the point of contention here is that we had a list post-2011 that was competitive, if not contending. Ed/Bucks argument is that that list was only going to provide short-term success, and thus have decided to take a dive in ladder position in order to prepare for long-term success.

I'm not entirely sold by that argument, given the calibre of players we had, but I'm willing to wait and see how it unfolds.
How long are you willing to wait for?
 

THATSGOLD

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Say we start our season like we ended the last 10-12 games of 2014 does Bucks keep his job?
First 10 games 2-8 would that be enough?
 

ClaytonM

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I'm aware of the system we have, but to keep evoking it as the reason for our downfall is a bit of a cop out.

It's a matter of working the system by having an effective in-house system at the club to mitigate the "fall" and capitalise on the "rise".

Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney are examples of clubs that have managed to rejuvenate their lists - when by your account they should've fallen ala the league's rise/fall system - and still remain competitive/contenders.

West Coast is an example of a team that fluctuates quite spectacularly - falls dramatically low, then rises and snatches a flag every so often.

What model are we trying to pursue, and what increases our chances of winning a flag - which is difficult to win, as you say?

Should we take a 2004-2005-like crash so we can be competitive for the next 7 years? Or should we transition our list while remaining competitive?

I think the point of contention here is that we had a list post-2011 that was competitive, if not contending. Ed/Bucks argument is that that list was only going to provide short-term success, and thus have decided to take a dive in ladder position in order to prepare for long-term success.

I'm not entirely sold by that argument, given the calibre of players we had, but I'm willing to wait and see how it unfolds.

My question is would the pies team circa 2010/11 beat the Swans and Hawks circa 2014? My answer is no.

The lists they have are clearly superior to our 2010/11 side and we have since lost considerable experience. I think you are starting to see a decline in Geelong and the Hawks will struggle in the next few years.
 

ThePheonix

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I could list 'non golden boy' coaches who have failed. The issue is whether he can coach and until he has a better list and better run of injuries we cannot really judge.

Malthouse as an experienced coach took 10 years to win a flag. How long you going to give Buckley?

It took Malthouse 3 years to get Collingwood into a Grand Final. How long do you think it would take for Buckley to get Collingwood into another Grand Final?
 

PhiloBeddoe

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Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney are examples of clubs that have managed to rejuvenate their lists - when by your account they should've fallen ala the league's rise/fall system - and still remain competitive/contenders.

West Coast is an example of a team that fluctuates quite spectacularly - falls dramatically low, then rises and snatches a flag every so often.
Three of 18 clubs in the last 10 years. If we have a look at Geelong and their unusually high father/son allocation and the profile of their team in 07, they were primed for a 5 year run. As for Sydney, well.....9.8 reasons why they can keep a good list. Hawthorn's job in remaining up the top is the most admirable of the three IMO. They took some calculated risks and they paid off.
We aren't anywhere near as good as the Hawks at recruiting, we can't compete with Sydney's budget and we've never boasted the talent available to Geelong over an extended period.
West Coast = 5 Grand Finals for three wins. Since 94 they have 1 flag in 20 years. No better than us.

I think the point of contention here is that we had a list post-2011 that was competitive, if not contending. Ed/Bucks argument is that that list was only going to provide short-term success, and thus have decided to take a dive in ladder position in order to prepare for long-term success.
Eddie may have been privy to the results of the conversations rather than be involved in them. Buckley, Hine, Walsh etc all sat down and decided that the 2012 list was not going to win a flag. I'm pretty sure they would have looked outside of the club, assessed other teams' lists and decided that our current crop were going to struggle short term.
 

ClaytonM

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It took Malthouse 3 years to get Collingwood into a Grand Final. How long do you think it would take for Buckley to get Collingwood into another Grand Final?

It will take longer. The list is not good enough. That is why we have over the last two years traded into the lower end of the draft. We need a major overhaul of the list if we are to compete with the current top teams and the emerging GC & GWS.
 

Krueger

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Sigh, this chestnut again.

Did Sydney sack Paul Roos when they signed him to that succession plan? Or Melbourne for that matter?

Stop talking rubbish.

Roos was all for the succession plan at Sydney and he let Longmire basically call the shots in his last season. Similar at Melbourne now. Do some research before you post you imbercile.
 

Krueger

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Gee,Collingwoods fall down the ladder happened because Malthouse left.Now knowing this, I suppose Carlton must be disappointed they replaced Rattan,a coach who regularly got them into the finals,with a coach who compared with Rattan's efforts could only be described as a disappointing failure.Ah Mick Malthouse rose like a rocket fell like a stick.

Lol the way you talk Alastair Clarkson can walk in to GWS tom and take them to a GF next year. The fact we were a machine in 2011 with only Geelong able to challenge. I have no doubt if it wernt for the injuries, the betting scandal and that bs succession plan we would have gone back to back.

The point was you dont change a winning formula especially in our case when we were at the top. The cheats have gone backwards too but they lost 6 games by two goals or less and drew another this year.
 
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Say we start our season like we ended the last 10-12 games of 2014 does Bucks keep his job?
First 10 games 2-8 would that be enough?

They're interesting questions and my expectation is that yes he will survive ala MM in 05. Does that make it the right call though?..

On a 2-8 start we're only a tough draw to start the season and another average run with injuries away from it. This is because we're a side that relies too much on individual output over a winning system.

There are many clubs league wide that will still grind out wins if they are 10% off their best, but due to our structural and tactical weaknesses we don't fit that mould. In order to achieve a win we rely on a Cloke bag, Pendles or Beams 30 possession game and a defender shutting an opposition gun out.

It's why we've struggled big time against Hawthorn since 2012. They allow our stars to have big games because they back their system in to handle our role players because our system is below average-poor.
 
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Roos was all for the succession plan at Sydney and he let Longmire basically call the shots in his last season. Similar at Melbourne now. Do some research before you post you imbercile.
Nice to see the point went straight over your head.

Malthouse signed the deal, no? How he behaved by the time 2011 rolled around just isn't relevant. Collingwood and Mick agreed to the 5-year deal which HE broke.

Maybe Malthouse should have let Bucks call the shots. Regardless, it doesn't change the arrangement that was in place.

Nothing to do with research.
 
Lol the way you talk Alastair Clarkson can walk in to GWS tom and take them to a GF next year. The fact we were a machine in 2011 with only Geelong able to challenge. I have no doubt if it wernt for the injuries, the betting scandal and that bs succession plan we would have gone back to back.

The point was you dont change a winning formula especially in our case when we were at the top. The cheats have gone backwards too but they lost 6 games by two goals or less and drew another this year.

Why is it that Mick is allowed excuses for injury and Buckley isn't?
 

ClaytonM

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Lol the way you talk Alastair Clarkson can walk in to GWS tom and take them to a GF next year. The fact we were a machine in 2011 with only Geelong able to challenge. I have no doubt if it wernt for the injuries, the betting scandal and that bs succession plan we would have gone back to back.

The point was you dont change a winning formula especially in our case when we were at the top. The cheats have gone backwards too but they lost 6 games by two goals or less and drew another this year.

The fact is you do need to change a winning formula. The AFL is a highly competitive and dynamic environment. Stand still and you go backwards. Bomber Thompson admitted as much when we won in 2010. He said he knew Geelong needed to change but the team wouldn't come with him. It took a thumping in the prelim to convince the players.

By the end of 2011 our winning formula (the forward press) was dead. It was being picked apart by faster more skilful teams.

No change equals death.
 
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