Buddy's contract killing Sydney's depth?

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Sep 25, 2007
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Why have Geelong been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Hawthorn been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Collingwood been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Sydney been so successful for so long? Apparently, COLA
Why were Brisbane successful? Apparently COLA.

It's just insulting. Why is the success of Brisbane and Sydney not due to exactly the same factors as people credit Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood? There is a lot of jealousy and tall-poppy syndrome on BF.

Collingwood only managed 1 flag and other than Jolly most of the list was initially drafted to Collingwood (Luke Ball obviously an exception, but that was a pretty complicated matter). They lost Daisy who, prior to his injury troubles, was boardering on elite.

Hawks benefited from a couple of clever trades of players who wanted out of their former club (Gunston, Gibson et al) and some smart drafting (Dew, Smith, and getting rid of Williams). But they also lost Buddy, the best KPF in the comp and have yet to achieve complete success without him.

Geelong benefited from a few good FS selections over time (Hawkins, Scarlett,Gazz and Nathan). They lost a few players too including King, Mummy, and the best player in the comp.

The Lions lost Des Headland (lol) while retaining 3 Brownlow medalists.

The Swans lost Mummy and...... ? while gaining Buddy and Tippet.

Geelong are the only team so far that have been successful after being hit by big losses in terms of personal, but they had the avantage of FS. While the Swans are the only team to have had significant success and added significantly to their list.
 

Experimental

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Why have Geelong been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Hawthorn been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Collingwood been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Sydney been so successful for so long? Apparently, COLA
Why were Brisbane successful? Apparently COLA.

It's just insulting. Why is the success of Brisbane and Sydney not due to exactly the same factors as people credit Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood? There is a lot of jealousy and tall-poppy syndrome on BF.
Couldn't agree more. It pisses me off.
 
Sep 25, 2007
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It will always be that way. The vfl won't acknowledge the success of other clubs . It's the australian football league but why are non Victorian sides referred to as "interstate sides"

Sure they will.

"You have been successful, we can now stop giving you a competitive advantage."

/success acknowledged.
 
Oct 5, 2013
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Geelong are the only team so far that have been successful after being hit by big losses in terms of personal, but they had the avantage of FS.

Still lost Egan and Menzel (potentially as of right now, 2014). Two players who had well and truly consolidated themselves in the starting 18 of a premiership team/s and would have gone onto to become household names.
You win some and lose some.
 
Sep 25, 2007
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Still lost Egan and Menzel (potentially as of right now, 2014). Two players who had well and truly consolidated themselves in the starting 18 of a premiership team/s and would have gone onto to become household names.
You win some and lose some.

Oh for sure, and the other clubs have had players retire or be injured too. But I was contending that Swans fans can't really point to Collingwood and the Hawks and go "look at their success, they've managed just as well as us, don't blame COLA."
 

hk89

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Why is the success of Brisbane and Sydney not due to exactly the same factors as people credit Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood?

Because the three teams you list didn't get COLA, it is that simple really. Sydney also built a good list, had smart recruiting, and a good game plan to match their players and ground, but people tend to focus on the points of difference. Speaking of which , Sydney get twice the COLA Brisbane did, and there were still a lot of bitter Pies supporters after the Lion's reign of terror. It is naive to think your club can take AFL handouts unavailable to other clubs, and then not have opposition supporters complain about it. This doesn't mean Sydney recruiters don't deserve a lot of credit, they've been very clever in targeting under utilised potential in other clubs.
 

Kickin_Goals

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Sorry Mumford, Everitt, White, Armstrong etc and than retirements.

You guys weren't players.

Sorry the way it's been shown that The departures from the Swans freed up more cap space than what was used on those two recruitments (allowing for contract renegotiations of younger guys).
ok mumford counts as a player. Do not rate the others.
But I'm not sure if you've caught what I was saying, it probably is not worded correctly.
I was saying this is the first quality they have possibly helped pushed out that isn't in direct competition for their positions on the field a retirement or just plain not worth mentioning like Armstrong. If I was Sydney hypothetically trading those players you listed for tipett and franklin im winning by miles.
It's the dream trade of packaging your surplus for the best players in the comp of other sides.
It's like us throwing out Reilly, Douglas, Lyons, Van Berlo and Sam Mckernan and somehow landing Leon Cameron and Joel Selwood for their career....
 

liz

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Because the three teams you list didn't get COLA, it is that simple really. Sydney also built a good list, had smart recruiting, and a good game plan to match their players and ground, but people tend to focus on the points of difference. Speaking of which , Sydney get twice the COLA Brisbane did, and there were still a lot of bitter Pies supporters after the Lion's reign of terror. It is naive to think your club can take AFL handouts unavailable to other clubs, and then not have opposition supporters complain about it. This doesn't mean Sydney recruiters don't deserve a lot of credit, they've been very clever in targeting under utilised potential in other clubs.

That is because COLA stands for "cost of living allowance" not retention allowance.

The Swans have consistently stated that the allowance is spread across its playing list to compensate them for the fact that basic costs of living - especially rent - are considerably more expensive in Sydney than any other Australian city, with the possible exception of Perth in recent years (though I understand rents still don't come close to Sydney's). If people continue to chose to ignore this, there's not much that can be done.

The way the allowance was structured as a lump sum may have been non-transparent and is about to be replaced by a different allowance that will achieve the exact same thing but with more transparency. I expect the change to have close to no impact on the Swans and their cap management.

We will lose the odd player due to a cap squeeze, partly because we have a strong squad and exacerbated by the Tippett and Franklin recruitments. We will also lose some younger players because they know they are good enough to play senior footy but aren't getting a go. Those exact same things have happened to pretty much every club that has had a period of success and we can't expect to be any different.
 

manboob

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If people continue to chose to ignore this, there's not much that can be done.
You can call it what you like doesn't make it so.
 
Sep 25, 2007
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That is because COLA stands for "cost of living allowance" not retention allowance.

The Swans have consistently stated that the allowance is spread across its playing list to compensate them for the fact that basic costs of living - especially rent - are considerably more expensive in Sydney than any other Australian city, with the possible exception of Perth in recent years (though I understand rents still don't come close to Sydney's). If people continue to chose to ignore this, there's not much that can be done.

Reckon many AFL players rent?
 

OK Computer

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Love Mal, but at 30 he might want to chase a better 2 year deal so you can't begrudge him for that. Hopefully he leaves as a 2 time premiership player.

Rohan, Biggs and Jones are ready to play his role and AJ is back next year as we'll.

McVeigh can go back and do the role just as we'll which frees up the spot to get Tom Mitchell into the 18 (body permitting).

Plenty of up side really and we get another $250,000 to $300,000 of salary cap back into the mix as we'll.
just for future reference
we'll = we will
 

Kickin_Goals

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That is because COLA stands for "cost of living allowance" not retention allowance.

The Swans have consistently stated that the allowance is spread across its playing list to compensate them for the fact that basic costs of living - especially rent - are considerably more expensive in Sydney than any other Australian city, with the possible exception of Perth in recent years (though I understand rents still don't come close to Sydney's). If people continue to chose to ignore this, there's not much that can be done.

The way the allowance was structured as a lump sum may have been non-transparent and is about to be replaced by a different allowance that will achieve the exact same thing but with more transparency. I expect the change to have close to no impact on the Swans and their cap management.

We will lose the odd player due to a cap squeeze, partly because we have a strong squad and exacerbated by the Tippett and Franklin recruitments. We will also lose some younger players because they know they are good enough to play senior footy but aren't getting a go. Those exact same things have happened to pretty much every club that has had a period of success and we can't expect to be any different.

Nobody cares what they say it's for, more is more and noone gives a flying * about the cost of living anywhere and that you think it's valid as an argument is delusion, it never has been a valid reason.
You can make up any reason to advantage a team and call it an allowance for that and make an arbitrary compensation.
We'd love to have a fishbowl town allowance over here in Adelaide, an allowance for being an unattractive place to set up a business, since noone bloody comes here.

If you honestly don't think clubs can find affordable accommodation for new recruits it's not worth having a dialogue with you at all.
Oh s**t these 3 new inter-staters have to pay 10 bucks more per week for their shared accommodation in Sydney if it is they actually pay rent.
Just stop, you can't just keep repeating yourself and expect it to be valid and it's just insulting at this point that you think people should take your naive BS on board.
Produce a rent certificate for a Swans recruit to give this some actual substance or STFU with this done to death failed argument, even then it doesn't extend to payments to other players at a percentage, you have no argument.

An NBA player is paid 10 mill living in L.A gets taxed in one state 13.3% moves to Houston is taxed nothing.
Team isn't paying anything more player gets more in other state can attract more players for less.

I can call something the child health fund and use that money to destroy children's health, because titles for things totally matter.......

Stop just please stop flogging something that is clearly misappropriation or it would not be getting changed as policy makers don't like to be pushed to do anything they would rather cover their asses with slight adjustments even when something is glaringly ridiculous and the slow death of these allocations is the only way to go not to cause problems for the Swans who are just doing as they should and using what they are allocated...
 
Jun 19, 2007
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Why have Geelong been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Hawthorn been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Collingwood been so successful for so long? They built a good list, had a good gamplan, smart recruiting and kept the list together.
Why have Sydney been so successful for so long? Apparently, COLA
Why were Brisbane successful? Apparently COLA.

It's just insulting. Why is the success of Brisbane and Sydney not due to exactly the same factors as people credit Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood? There is a lot of jealousy and tall-poppy syndrome on BF.
You keep saying that each of these teams "kept the list together".

Hawthorn and Geelong both lost million dollar players. Collingwood almost lost theirs (lost a 700k daisy instead).

We keep hearing that Sydney have such an amazing culture and that's how they keep the list together - but the culture at Geelong, hawthorn and Collingwood has been just as strong and successful.

Could you imagine if Geelong had managed to not only keep Gary Ablett, but also add a million dollar key forward to stand next to Hawkins? Instead they did well with bargain basement Pods, but imagine if they had someone better - they would have made the grand final last year.

Imagine the hawks if we had been able to keep buddy last year but add a million dollar midfielder or ruckman? Even with the injuries we had this year we'd be top of the ladder again likely.

Keeping the list together is one challenge (the 10% extra is designed help). But being able to sign over million dollar players on the back of a couple of fringe players leaving and a retirement or two just doesn't look like an even playing ground to me. This is without trading out players or draft picks to get these guys.

Then you hear rumours that Tom Mitchell - a guy who can't even get a game - is on upwards of 400k a year because they wanted to keep him out of GWS's reach and it sounds like the swans have a license to print money. Would like that rumour confirmed or denied though before I get carried away.
 

MF

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But didn't Malthouse say we had the best depth he has ever seen?:rolleyes:


Pretty sure there's already a 100 page thread saying the same thing that was posted after Everitt, Mumford, White and Armstrong left at the end of last season.

That thread got closed once Buddy starting winning games off his own boot and it was no longer as fun for everyone to pretend he was killing our culture.
 
Are you interested in reality ?...or just another BF tabloid loser running a headline like " Swans extra $3million: AFL conspiracy to keep Hawthorn down "

Did you go to school ?
I did...so i can count.
Can you ?

Try extremely hard to focus this time...concentrate and dont get distracted by the other 10 year olds pretending to be dumber than dog s**t.

Here's the actual answer...see if you can at least follow this time.

2012
Out: Seaby (300K) Spangher (120K) Dennis-Lane (150K) Moore (220K) Meredith(120K) Gordon (90K)
Total OUT 2012 Approx $1m
In: Kurt Tippett, Cunningham + Draftees x 4
2013
Out: Armstrong (140K) Everitt (280K) Lamb (150K) Mattner (350K) Morton (160K) Mumford (500K) White (250K) Bolton (360K)
Total OUT 2013 Approx $ 2.0-2.2 Mill
In: Lance Franklin, Tom Derickx, B Jack + Draftees x 4

Thats not even factoring in Bradshaws last year on his contract

Perhaps read it thru again....maybe in your case read it 15 times so that you dont need to feign stupidity to spin a story anymore.

Amazing how Tom Mitchell's contract suddenly exploded isnt it. I'd be surprised if he wasnt on $700K in a weeks time. What about the rumour we're about to offer Malceski $1m over 7 years to finsih up at Sydney ?...heard that one yet ?

You'd like rumours confirmed or denied before "you get carried away" yeah ? Too late though isnt it.
Why dont you tell everyone where you hear all these idiot rumours.... instead of thinking people need to deny them just so you dont continually pass them off as likely to spin a story.
Yep, add 350K for Bradshaw in 2012 outs. Cunningham wand B Jack both rookies, i.e. on peanuts. Laidler added in 2014 also, but he and Derickxs were both delisted so they'd also be on almost nothing.

And funny you should mention Tom Mitchell. Listening to SEN right now, they just said Sydney will be paying him 600-700k next year. lol, nice call. Heeney has now been upgraded to the -1 pick... he's so good he's now gone off the scale, and is a ready made superstar according to the all-knowing SEN. :rolleyes:
 
Jun 29, 2006
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btw

Where did Hawthorn get the $1.1mill per year to offer Franklin ?....who did they move on to clear that kind of money from the cap to offer such big money to get him to stay ? All Sydney did was offer an extra 4 yrs.

derrrrr....if i was a 10 yo it would sounds like there's an AFl conspiracy to support Hawthorn.

What about the rumour Hawthorn are paying Lake $750K and Rioli $900K ?? Where did you pull that cap space from ? Would like those rumours confirmed or denied before "i get carried away"...sound familiar ? Best i keep saying that over and over coz it makes a good story.

Where did Adelaide find the $850K they offered Tippett to stay ? He's not even on $800K at Sydney, less than Cloke negotiated at Pies last yr. Ok for Adelaide to be able to afford him but not Sydney ? Funny that isnt it.

Where did Collingwoood get the 950K they're paying Cloke ? They didnt free up much space either...Sydney moving 8 players counts as noone and no money so i wonder how Pies can afford it....was Daisy on 800K ??? How the hell did they afford that ? How did they afford to pay White ...actually there's a rumour that White is on $600k...i'd like that confirmed or denied "before i get carried away" like a Hawthorn fan. Till then i better just keep saying it over and over coz it sounds a good convenient story to spin.

Sounds to me like there's an AFl conspiracy in favour of Melb clubs. Sydney moves 8 guys in a single season and yet apparently we still shouldnt be able to afford one big contract...but the Vic clubs dont need to move much at all. Bloody pets.
 
Jul 5, 2012
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Kidding, right?
Nobody cares what they say it's for, more is more and noone gives a flying **** about the cost of living anywhere and that you think it's valid as an argument is delusion, it never has been a valid reason.
You can make up any reason to advantage a team and call it an allowance for that and make an arbitrary compensation.
We'd love to have a fishbowl town allowance over here in Adelaide, an allowance for being an unattractive place to set up a business, since noone bloody comes here.

If you honestly don't think clubs can find affordable accommodation for new recruits it's not worth having a dialogue with you at all.
Oh s**t these 3 new inter-staters have to pay 10 bucks more per week for their shared accommodation in Sydney if it is they actually pay rent.
Just stop, you can't just keep repeating yourself and expect it to be valid and it's just insulting at this point that you think people should take your naive BS on board.
Produce a rent certificate for a Swans recruit to give this some actual substance or STFU with this done to death failed argument, even then it doesn't extend to payments to other players at a percentage, you have no argument.

An NBA player is paid 10 mill living in L.A gets taxed in one state 13.3% moves to Houston is taxed nothing.
Team isn't paying anything more player gets more in other state can attract more players for less.

I can call something the child health fund and use that money to destroy children's health, because titles for things totally matter.......

Stop just please stop flogging something that is clearly misappropriation or it would not be getting changed as policy makers don't like to be pushed to do anything they would rather cover their asses with slight adjustments even when something is glaringly ridiculous and the slow death of these allocations is the only way to go not to cause problems for the Swans who are just doing as they should and using what they are allocated...
You're making an impassioned case here for the continuing validity of the dictionary in society, which is very admirable, but the bottom line is that if you think a pissy 9.8% made the difference between signing or not signing Tippett and Franklin, you know nothing about the business and I'm surprised you even know how to look up words in the dictionary.

And clearly you can't read the Main Board posting rules.
 
Jun 29, 2006
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Yep, add 350K for Bradshaw in 2012 outs. Cunningham wand B Jack both rookies, i.e. on peanuts. Laidler added in 2014 also, but he and Derickxs were both delisted so they'd also be on almost nothing.

And funny you should mention Tom Mitchell. Listening to SEN right now, they just said Sydney will be paying him 600-700k next year. lol, nice call. Heeney has now been upgraded to the -1 pick... he's so good he's now gone off the scale, and is a ready made superstar according to the all-knowing SEN. :rolleyes:
Yepp...i always forget Laidler. Shouldnt coz he's been an absolute bargain.
Yeah we forked out a lazy $600K for him. At least thats the rumour.
 
What a wonderful contrast here - all Sydney supporters wishing Malceski the best if he does decide to leave, definitely no chance of a 1000 page thread full of complaints that is still active years later.
 
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