Opinion Building Nicely

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DrMike said:
Forget I said anything, stupidest thing on bigfooty as nut said :)
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He said stupist.

theflea said:
The only reason why I said he cant play in 'that' team was you had 4 193cm defenders in the 1 team( if I read it right) and would lack run.
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Lonergan
Taylor
Rivers
Mackie

Frawley
McDonald
Garland
Dunn

Lake
Schoenmakers
Birchall
Stratton

Tippett
Franklin
Reid
Goodes
 
_RT_ said:
You really are drawing a long bow here. Darrou is a 3rd year rookie, if he didn't trust the club I doubt he would have happily agreed to take a 3rd year on the rookie list where he could continue to develop his game and chase his dream of playing AFL eventually. Now I don't know about you but there is no way I would return for a 3rd year at a place where I didn't trust the people in charge. In fact I'd suggest 99% of people would be the same.
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Well thats why I find impossible that someone would open say he isnt ready.... I havent read anything to suggest this. Can you explain where this stupid rumor has come from?
 
How bout we rookie some footballers not project players/athletes and we might have a better success rate with it..
 

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theflea said:
Fair enough but for me I want another runner.
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The set up is no different to us playing 3 KPD 2 KPF & 2 Ruck/Fwd except that instead of having 3 talls at either end you have 4 talls in the back line, albeit one of them is capable of playing on smalls as well, and 2 talls up forward. So the run is there it is just used in a different way and probably more offensively than it is now.
 
nut said:
Well thats why I find impossible that someone would open say he isnt ready.... I havent read anything to suggest this. Can you explain where this stupid rumor has come from?
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He hasn't said anything openly, it is just what I have heard when attending VFL games.
 
I think our development really is reliant on building a gun midfield.

COTCH/DUSTY/LIDS - All have the ability and have shown they can be superstars of the comp, playing their top football.

ELLIS - Ellis is probably at peak output now and will improve as the team does, just needs to tidy up his kicking a bit from this year, but with more experiance I expect to see regular 30 touch accumulator games. It is really important to have this type of player that just creates havoc and he is very similar to Brent Stanton, who as much as he cops is a very damaging player on his day. Great role playing mid.

VLAUSTIN - Is absolute quality just needs to build his tank so he can be a 25-30 touch midfielder.

LENNON - Want to see him in for the rest of the year and play the Stevie J HF/MID role. Conca/Ellis/Vlaustin are all hard working quality, where as Lennon has the star power in his footskills and goal kicking. I hope he adopts an attitude over pre season that he doesn't need to wait 3-5 yrs before hitting his peak and use someone like Wingard as a role model.

CONCA - Under the most pressure to step up next year. Has shown glimpses on being a quality mid, but needs to be more consistent. Will be in his 5th year next year so it is time for him to take the transition form development to damaging 4th stringer who gets of the leash behind Cotch/Dusty/Lids. His agility and vision is great. His kicking is ok and I think will get better as he gets more run in his legs. Would go as far as saying he is our most important development player over the next 6-12 months as he has to take the next step.

MILES - This guy is a gun. Is performing at a very high level in his first month with us. He is really doing what Conca is meant to be doing. A added bonus as I don't think we would find a mid this good in the 2nd round ready to go. Great pick up.

NEED TO ADD:

SPEED! Obviously if at our pick there is another one paced type who is quality then you pick him up, but at some point we need to go for speed. I would be happy to pick best mid available with our first pick this year and then target the best quick outside mid with our second rounder. I would be happy to go after O'Rourke for the right deal to add the outside pace and class needed. At the end of next year we also need to go after the best FA's available even if they are 28 to give us a 3-4 year window of a quality best 22.

Martin (23), Cotchin (24), Deledio(27), Conca (21), Ellis (20), Vlaustin (20), Miles (22), Lennon (19) is a great fairly young midield. This group is going to peak in 2-3 years when Conca/Ellis/Vlaustin/Lennon/Miles are all playing top notch football.
 
Even though he has taken a long time to develop, and still frustrates me by drifting in and out of games, I think Titch is worth persisting with as a best 22 player. Good crumber, great hands and can rotate through stoppages when needed.

For me, big question marks on Morris (skills), Chaplin (courage, skills and decision making) and Vickery (contested marking, ability to dominate a a space in the forward line). Would be be comfortable if they were all pushed out of the side. Throw some money at Frawley and see what sticks.

Moderate question marks on Conca (impacting games), Batch (ability to stop his man), Grimes (consistency w/ injuries).

Haven't really seen enough to McDonough or Lennon to make an assessment, but so far they look OK
 
nut said:
So he has openly told people who have openly told you.... Good to hear the RFC still leaks like sift.
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Ah no but good on you for continuing to look for a way to get stuck into the club.
 
Disagree. We have a list proven to not be good enough and a coach proven to not be good enough to win a flag this and next year. Gold Coast and GWS will be too strong from 2016 onwards.

We can aim for consistent finals appearances, but not flags in the foreseeable future. Unrealistic. The AFL need to have a good hard look at themselves for skewing the AFL talent pool and favouring interstate teams. I am losing my interest in the game fast when clubs get their own boutique stadiums like Geelong and Gold Coast etc. where they make a truck-load and we get screwed over by salary cap rules, draft concessions, and stadium arrangements.

I'm getting sick of the game and losing interest if you combine the above with high ticket prices and the state of the current rolling maul gameplay.
 

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nut said:
And good for you and Dr Mike for spreading sensitive information ... Maybe leave it in your Pm's ... Just a thought.
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Who is spreading sensitive information, it is a rumour that I and other have heard about. I was simply commenting on what DrMike had heard with what I have heard. There might be nothing in it, there might be something in it who knows. As I have said to you repeatedly Darrou hasn't said anything publicly, no one from within the club has said anything publicly, it was merely something that was mentioned while in the stands watching some VFL games. You're the one who has jumped on this and made a big deal about it and used it to continue your rubbishing of the club. Much like you commented the other week that the jungle drums were beating about Hardwick getting the sack, remind us how is that going again? From all I have heard when at games is that the club, while not happy with how this season has panned out, aren't about to do something stupid.
 
_RT_ said:
Who is spreading sensitive information, it is a rumour that I and other have heard about. I was simply commenting on what DrMike had heard with what I have heard. There might be nothing in it, there might be something in it who knows. As I have said to you repeatedly Darrou hasn't said anything publicly, no one from within the club has said anything publicly, it was merely something that was mentioned while in the stands watching some VFL games. You're the one who has jumped on this and made a big deal about it and used it to continue your rubbishing of the club. Much like you commented the other week that the jungle drums were beating about Hardwick getting the sack, remind us how is that going again? From all I have heard when at games is that the club, while not happy with how this season has panned out, aren't about to do something stupid.
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Something Stupid would be putting up with our current senior coach.....
 
_RT_ said:
The set up is no different to us playing 3 KPD 2 KPF & 2 Ruck/Fwd except that instead of having 3 talls at either end you have 4 talls in the back line, albeit one of them is capable of playing on smalls as well, and 2 talls up forward. So the run is there it is just used in a different way and probably more offensively than it is now.
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Yep it all depends on how it is played and how they gel, who plays where etc. You normally play 7 talls but again it depends on personell and over all speed of the team.
 
Update at end of 2014 season.
Backs: Steve Morris 185cm 83kg 64 games 25 years old David Astbury 195cm 96kg 37 games 23 years old Troy Chaplin 195cm 99kg 185 games 28 years old

Half Backs: Dylan Grimes 193cm 88kg 45 games 23 years old Alex Rance 194cm 96kg 107 games 24 years old Bachar Houli 180cm 86kg 114 games 26 years old

Centres: Brandon Ellis 181cm 81kg 65 games 21 years old Nick Vlastuin 187cm 86kg 38 games 20 years old Reece Conca 185cm 83kg 65 games 22 years old

Half Forwards: Dustin Martin 187cm 89kg 108 games 23 years old Ben Griffiths 200cm 104kg 35 games 23 years old Brett Deledio 188cm 88kg 214 games 27 years old

Forwards: Shane Edwards 182cm 83kg 152 games 25 years old Jack Riewoldt 195cm 95kg 157 games 25 years old Sam Lloyd 182cm 84kg 8 games 24 years old

Rucks: Ivan Maric 200cm 102kg 132 games 28 years old Trent Cotchin 185cm 85kg 131 games 24 years old Anthony Miles 179cm 78kg 23 games 22 years old

Bench: Ben Lennon 190cm 82kg 7 games 19 years old Ricky Petterd 185cm 85kg 83 games 26 years old Tyrone Vickery 200cm 97kg 87 games 24 years old Nathan Gordon 188cm 86kg 14 games 24 years old

Averages
Age: 23.9 years old
Games: 85 games
Weight: 88.45kg
Height: 188.45cm

Depth Chart:

Tall Defender:Todd Elton 197cm 97kg 1 game 21 year old

Medium/Small Defenders: Jake Batchelor 188cm 87kg 52 games 22 years old Chris Newman 183cm 81kg 251 games 32 years old Matthew Dea 186cm 87kg 31 games 22 years old

Midfielders: Nathan Foley 178cm 79kg 146 games 29 years old Shaun Grigg 190cm 85kg 124 games 26 years old Matt Thomas 186cm 87kg 100 games 27 years old Kamdyn McIntosh 192cm 87kg 0 games 20 years old Matt Arnot 180cm 86kg 8 games 20 years old

Medium/Small Forwards: Matthew McDonough 180cm 84kg 8 games 20 years old Chris Knights 184cm 83kg 101 games 28 years old

Tall Forward: Liam McBean 200cm 90kg 0 games 20 years old

Ruck: Shaun Hampson 201cm 104kg 74 games 26 years old Ivan Soldo 204cm 104kg 0 games 18 years old

With the list cull having started I have updated the side that I posted in the OP 2 months ago. As a result some players that were named in the VFL side have been either moved back or upgraded to best 22 status IMO. With regards the VFL side I have changed it to a depth chart to try and provide an idea for areas that we need to look at addressing either through trades/free agency and the draft.

As the list stands right now I believe we are pretty well set up for midfielders and flankers/pockets but we are sorely lacking in genuine KPP depth. The ruck position, despite the ongoing ridicule of Hampson is in good shape as well with the 2 Ivans, Hampson and Vickery, who I believe we will return to being a ruckman from next year with Griffiths finally standing up at CHF, giving us plenty of cover for form/injury.

With that in mind what we need to add in the upcoming trade/free agency/draft periods is the following:
2-3 fleet footed midfielders
1-2 small defenders
2 KPDs
1 KPF.
If we can add these types I believe our list will be in the best shape it has been since the mid 90s when Northey had has up and running.

 
tigs2010 said:
Who can we steal from essendrugz?
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Leroy Jetta - already left delisted free agent
Brent Stanton - back to whipping boy status following the final
 
_RT_ said:
Backs: Steve Morris 185cm 83kg 57 games 25 years old David Astbury 195cm 96kg 37 games 23 years old Troy Chaplin 195cm 99kg 177 games 28 years old

Half Backs: Jake Batchelor 188cm 87kg 44 games 22 years old Alex Rance 194cm 96kg 99 games 24 years old Matthew Dea 186cm 87kg 31 games 22 years old

Centres: Brandon Ellis 181cm 81kg 57 games 21 years old Nick Vlastuin 187cm 86kg 30 games 20 years old Reece Conca 185cm 83kg 65 games 22 years old

Half Forwards: Dustin Martin 187cm 89kg 101 games 23 years old Jack Riewoldt 195cm 95kg 149 games 25 years old Brett Deledio 188cm 88kg 206 games 27 years old

Forwards: Shane Edwards 182cm 83kg 144 games 25 years old Tyrone Vickery 200cm 97kg 85 games 24 years old Matthew McDonough 180cm 84kg 8 games 20 years old

Rucks: Ivan Maric 200cm 102kg 124 games 28 years old Trent Cotchin 185cm 85kg 123 games 24 years old Anthony Miles 179cm 78kg 15 games 22 years old

Bench: Dylan Grimes 193cm 88kg 37 games 23 years old Ben Lennon 190cm 82kg 5 games 19 years old Daniel Jackson 188cm 91kg 143 games 28 years old Ricky Petterd 185cm 85kg 76 games 26 years old

Averages:
Games 82.4
Weight 88.4kg
Height 188.5cm
Age 23.6 years old

Now before everyone goes oh man it's too early for best 22 for 2015 threads, this is not what this is about. It's more about showing that despite the horrible season we're having results wise, there is the foundation of a very good side moving forward.

The group that I have as the back 7 is a very solid defensive unit. The difference between this group and the one that we have gone with in recent years is that Rance Astbury Morris Dea Batchelor & Grimes are all players who focus on ensuring their opponents are accounted for before looking at being attacking options. Therefore they are unlikely to be caught out on a turnover in the midfield like guys like Houli & Newman often are. Some might say where is the rebound from defence with run and carry. Well IMO Morris Rance & Chaplin can all provide that offensive play and with our midfielders starting to work hard back into the back line we will get help in that area.

Speaking of the midfield the group I have gone with in that area is again a very solid 2 way midfield, there might not be a lot of flash in that area, but the Swans have shown that you don't need a heap of flash to be one of the best midfield groups. The group that I have gone with does possess some quality disposal especially be foot and also has a fair amount of grunt when it comes to not only winning the ball but also doing the hard work when we don't have the ball. Cotchin Miles Vlastuin Ellis & Conca starting out with support from guys like Deledio Martin S.Edwards Lennon Jackson Petterd & McDonough gives us a nicely balanced set up.

Up forward I've gone with Jack at CHF, where we planned to play him this year and Vickery at FF. Jack has the smarts and ability up the ground to be very dangerous, he is going to drag the oppositions best defender away from the back line by leading up the ground and leave Vickery, who is decent on the lead, room to move into. With the 3rd tall role I've opted for a combination of Deledio & Lennon. Both are around the 190cm mark and are very good over head with thumping kicks on them. Having them alternate between the midfield and the 3rd tall role would really create some match up problems for the opposition. At the feet of Vickery I have McDonough & S.Edwards, both could be very handy in type defensive forward role who can also impact on the scoreboard and rotate through the middle. While Martin plays in a Bruest type of role, where he can cause havoc up forward and also give a chop out through the middle.


IMO if everyone in the side above was up and running next year we could very quickly find ourselves very much back in the mix for a finals spot. Now I realise that a lot of us, me included have said but we need some pace, well in that side there is some pace, not genuine speed, but there is some pace, but the more important thing IMO is that there is quality ball users who can move the ball quickly and accurately by hand and foot, and quick ball movement will always be better than quick players.

The other thing I hope we manage to do is adjust the make up of the list a little so that we can play the VFL side in the same sort of structure that the AFL side is playing with. If you look at the side I have posted below it is almost an identical structure, allowing for the delisting/retirements of the players we all believe should make way. From the side I have named we need 2 KPDs, one a gorilla type to eventually replace Chaplin and a more mobile Grimes/Rance type. Add to that 3 midfield/flanker types and I believe that the list would be well placed moving forward.

VFL Side

Backs: Cadeyn Williams 186cm 86kg 0 games 20 years old Ben Darrou 190cm 97kg 0 games 20 year old Gorilla Type KPD to replace Chaplin

Half Backs: Bachar Houli 180cm 86kg 106 games 26 years old Todd Elton 197cm 97kg 1 game 21 year old Bradley Helbig 185cm 85kg 16 games 22 years old

Centres: Shaun Grigg 190cm 85kg 119 games 26 years old Matt Thomas 186cm 87kg 97 games 27 years old Kamdyn McIntosh 192cm 87kg 0 games 20 years old

Half Forwards: Brett O’Hanlon 189cm 89kg 9 games 21 years old Ben Griffiths 200cm 104kg 29 games 22 years old Chris Knights 184cm 83kg 101 games 27 years old

Forwards: Sam Lloyd 182cm 84kg 5 games 24 years old Liam McBean 200cm 90kg 0 games 19 years old Nathan Gordon 188cm 86kg 7 games 24 years old

Rucks: Shaun Hampson 201cm 104kg 74 games 26 years old Matt Arnot 180cm 86kg 8 games 20 years old Nathan Foley 178cm 79kg 146 games 28 years old

Bench: Mobile 3rd tall KPD Midfield/Flanker Midfield/Flanker Midfield/Flanker

Again let me make this clear, this is not a best 22 for 2015 type of thread because none of us have any idea as to who is going to still be here and who is going to be added. Things may change drastically once the trade/draft periods happen and I'm sure that we'll have a best 22 for 2015 up the moment these periods have ended.

This is more about bringing a little bit of perspective/hope to the place after what has been a frustrating and dark 2014 season.
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most of our players haven't even reached peak, 26-29 years old.
 
wart101 said:
most of our players haven't even reached peak, 26-29 years old.
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That was why I said we were building nicely 2 months ago, looking at the side and depth chart now we're in a better position again.
tigs2010 said:
I meant people they actually want, otherwise where's the fun in it? :p
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Zaharakis - no risk of a drug ban
Hibberd - even with a 6 month ban he'd be handy to bring in for the second half of 2015.
 
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