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Chief said:
Wheat has B vitamins and fibre blah de blah.

Oats have protein, fibre, zinc, copper, manganese... blah de blah.

They have plenty of fibre, vitamins and minerals.

Totally pointless to cut grains out of your diet intentionally. Do you not eat Weet Bix for brekky?? The hell kind of monster are you?

Bazzar will you answer my questions now? Pretty please?
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Wow fibre! So does cardboard and sawdust.

I do eat oats btw, before you totally paint me as a fanatic.

anyway, here's a start for you if you are genuiely interested, which I doubt. He cites at least a dozen scientific studies in that article alone.'Lectins' are the main problem.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/

Theres dozens more similar articles on the site, which also draw on studies.
 
Chief said:
The food it leaves out.

Got any longitudinal studies on it? They might tell you more.

The best you can probably say about Paleo is that it might not kill you quicker than a balanced diet. It also might cause cancer.

Nobody knows.
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Paleo is probably the best balance way of eating a wide range of medicinal nutrients.
Pasta, rice, bread & cereal are just cheap fillers , they don't make a diet balanced.
Seems like your trying to justify your poor eating habits.
 

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evo said:
Wow fibre! So does cardboard and sawdust.
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Holy crap - that's the point you attack? Not a word about all the other stuff in there?

There's nothing wrong with grains, unless, like ANY OTHER FOOD, you eat too much.

Balance. That's it.
evo said:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/
Theres dozens more similar articles on the site, which also draw on studies.
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"Lectins are bad."

Good God - one of the woo-woo diet kings misinterpreting and misrepresenting real science.

Lectins might be bad in large quantities. They also might aid in digestion and bacteria moderation.

Wait, do whole grains protect against heart disease? Should we ask a health guru peddling fads, or a scientist?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9137632

The intake of wholegrain foods clearly protects against heart disease and stroke but the exact mechanism is not clear. Fibre, magnesium, folate and vitamins B6 and vitamin E may be important. The intake of high GI carbohydrates (from both grain and non-grain sources) in large amounts is associated with an increased risk of heart disease in overweight and obese women even when fibre intake is high but this requires further confirmation in normal-weight women.
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Bazzar is right - fast as you guys can shovel out bad articles by health gurus making unequivocal claims unsupported by evidence, I can find good science, sometimes with warts and all "we think so but we don't know for certain yet" conclusions.

It is so incredibly easy to find real, peer-reviewed studies to blow the claims of rich marketing geniuses... er, altruistic health gurus, out of the water.

This good. That bad. Buy my book.

The big point: These guys distort and make up facts to fluff their marketing message with black and white claims about what is good and what is bad. People seeking definite answers - and right now - are fed this thin gruel of over-simplification and misrepresentation.

The real world is much more complicated, subtle and ambiguous.
 
ablett said:
Paleo is probably the best balance way of eating a wide range of medicinal nutrients.
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There is no - I repeat NO - scientific evidence to back this claim up.

Find me a multigenerational longitudinal study to support this. Or even... any study.

The one on post-menopausal women doesn't count for obvious reasons (i.e. it was not conclusive or controlled well enough.)
 
Chief said:
Holy crap - that's the point you attack? Not a word about all the other stuff in there?

There's nothing wrong with grains, unless, like ANY OTHER FOOD, you eat too much.

Balance. That's it.

"Lectins are bad."

Good God - one of the woo-woo diet kings misinterpreting and misrepresenting real science.

Lectins might be bad in large quantities. They also might aid in digestion and bacteria moderation.

Wait, do whole grains protect against heart disease? Should we ask a health guru peddling fads, or a scientist?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9137632



Bazzar is right - fast as you guys can shovel out bad articles by health gurus making unequivocal claims unsupported by evidence, I can find good science, sometimes with warts and all "we think so but we don't know for certain yet" conclusions.

It is so incredibly easy to find real, peer-reviewed studies to blow the claims of rich marketing geniuses... er, altruistic health gurus, out of the water.

This good. That bad. Buy my book.

The big point: These guys distort and make up facts to fluff their marketing message with black and white claims about what is good and what is bad. People seeking definite answers - and right now - are fed this thin gruel of over-simplification and misrepresentation.

The real world is much more complicated, subtle and ambiguous.
Click to expand...
I don't think that "scientist" quote really backs up anything. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it says high GI carbs such as grains cause heart disease.. and then it says that grains clearly improve heart conditions, but the mechanism isn't clear - huh? This "mechanism" involves a whole bunch of nutrients that are easily found in vegetables - why bother eating grains when high GI carbs causes heart disease ?
 
FavoriteSun said:
There is no magic potion, superfood or pill you can take that replaces hard work and eating a balanced diverse diet and everything in moderation.
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This is why everyone has obesity &/or poor, no bad food is good or ok in moderation & people's moderate amount differs from one to another.
 
Chief said:
There is no - I repeat NO - scientific evidence to back this claim up.

Find me a multigenerational longitudinal study to support this. Or even... any study.

The one on post-menopausal women doesn't count for obvious reasons (i.e. it was not conclusive or controlled well enough.)
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Not everything needs scientific evidence to justify what's logic.

If you believe KFC n Maccas is better than Paleo then keep eating it, in moderation of course!

Show me anywhere in the world were their health has advanced since introducing processed foods to their eating habits?

The only thing processed foods enhance is the drug companies profits.
 
ablett said:
Not everything needs scientific evidence to justify what's logic.

If you believe KFC n Maccas is better than Paleo then keep eating it, in moderation of course!

Show me anywhere in the world were their health has advanced since introducing processed foods to their eating habits?

The only thing processed foods enhance is the drug companies profits.
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This is a false dichotomy.

"You're either paleo or you're eating KFC 'til it comes out of your arse*."


(* Note that a portion of everything you eat actually does come out of your arse. You know what I mean.)
 

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Uou
Chief said:
Doesn't mean they are, either: they haven't been the subject of any proper study.
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Ffs you don't need a study when you have your own empirical evidence. You are out of your depth on this board. Every post is you flapping your feathers about out of date embarrassing rubbish.

You have no idea about diet and nutrition, that much is obvious as well as you've admitted that you're fat. For your own sake stop posting on this board.
 
Chief said:
I did not avoid the question. Read my post.

s**t-stirring would be just making fun of the rubbish being posted. I'm posting the facts as close as we know them. Paleo and bulletproof are junk science, plain and simple.

How about some questions for you:
* Have humans evolved in any way the last 50,000 years? 10,000?
* Has bacteria evolved in the last 50,000 years? 10,000? 5,000? 1,000?
* Were grains a part of any human diet prior to 10,000 years ago?
* Is there one model of paleolithic human?
* Did Paleolithic man across the planet have a homogeneous diet?
* What is the difference between Himalayan salt and plain table salt?
* Is this difference significant or is it too miniscule to make any difference?
* What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
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Were GMO yeasts, petroleum based additives available 10,000 years ago?

Also were the grains our ancient ancestors digested the same highly refined ones we have today?

You suggest they ate grains, so that means all's good. You should have a look at what goes into developing modern starches and yeasts though, it's a long way from the techniques used 40 years ago, let alone 2000
 
evo said:
Wow fibre! So does cardboard and sawdust.

I do eat oats btw, before you totally paint me as a fanatic.

anyway, here's a start for you if you are genuiely interested, which I doubt. He cites at least a dozen scientific studies in that article alone.'Lectins' are the main problem.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-grains-are-unhealthy/

Theres dozens more similar articles on the site, which also draw on studies.
Click to expand...

On fibre, have a look at the cereals section next time.

All bran runs at 40% of RDI, then you fall off a cliff. Some of the fibre boosted ones are around 20%, but all the highly refined cereals that are apparently still awesome for you barely track at 5%

Given most people think their hearty bowl of cereal gives them the fibre they need for the day, and they are kidding themselves,

Refined grains are about two things, being able to be extruded into a shape and holding it, and being a carbohydrates delivery vehicle. To gain that, the refining process cooks and processes away most of the nutritional value in the original grains.
 
rfctiger74 said:
Were GMO yeasts, petroleum based additives available 10,000 years ago?

Also were the grains our ancient ancestors digested the same highly refined ones we have today?

You suggest they ate grains, so that means all's good. You should have a look at what goes into developing modern starches and yeasts though, it's a long way from the techniques used 40 years ago, let alone 2000
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Were we the same humans 10,000 years ago? Were our bacteria the same?
 
haden1999 said:
Ffs you don't need a study when you have your own empirical evidence.
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Yeah, you kinda do.

Otherwise you're just guessing about which effects are due to which practices or food. As mentioned, the issues around animal fats have evolved due to investigation. The actual red meat itself seems to metabolise into substances which affect your heart. So tons of lean red meat may not be wise.

Smokers thought they were fine until we had proper, long term studies showing increases in some types of cancer in smokers.

We all thought a sun tan was healthy and vibrant and a sun burn was just a nuisance until we realised, through scientific investigation, what too much sun exposure was doing to us.

An old friend of mine thought it was rubbish that smoking encouraged cancer, citing her grandmother who smoked like a chimney until she was 90. Incidentally the same grandmother apparently lived on cheese and fried fish all her life. I guess dairy actually helps you live a long life!
 
Chief said:
Were we the same humans 10,000 years ago? Were our bacteria the same?
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Don't know tbh, but way to ignore the point

You keep saying grains have been consumed for thousands of years, and if they were good for you then they must be good for you now. Point is the grains we consume know rarely reflect what was consumed back then thanks to refining, processing, extrusion, and the addition of petroleum based additives, preservatives, and GMO yeasts.
 
Big Cox 88 said:
Chief owns the grain board. And the heart foundation. And multiple hotels, railways, internet websites and high-class brothels
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Fixed for you
:thumbsu:
 
stormee said:
I'm not actually sure of the benefits of Paleo/BP or whatever this is, but it's fairly apparent to me that one of the negative side effects is developing an incurable sense of superiority over everyone who doesn't subscribe to the same nutritional practices that you do.
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I think the majority of posters in the BP and LCHF threads are fairly easy going and open to hearty discussion.
 
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