Can we match it with the best?

[Gone Critical]

This is why a balance is necassary and perhaps the inclusion later in the year of Shazza and Broomy will help in this regard. We are still a bit off the pace but we have huge potential in the bank, its possible we could find the balance and be a contender such as in '10 when our early season resembled this one so much but its more likely we will continue to build until next year with perhaps a top 4 finish this year if all goes well to give the youngsters that vital finals experience.

I look at this from a slightly different perspective. I have considered 2013 our worst season for a long time. Club was divided, injuries affected us and we had to play a lot of kids. 2014 was always likely to be a better year and that is how it looks so far. Still our performance has only been a pass so far.

I think what stands us in good stead this year is the return of our experience. With Beams, Fasolo, Toovey, Ball, Keefe and Young all ready for full seasons and White and maybe Adams near best 22 it means all the kids we played last year will be more likely VFL players in 2013. We had 13 premiership players playing on Sat and with Brown and Reid back shortly that may become 15. I think Langdon will drop out with time, has been a great addition and soon becomes relable depth. If Marley Williams gets good news tomorrow he will also be back soon. Seedsman and Sinclair may also put some pressure on the 22.

I think Broomy, Scharenburg, Freeman, Oxley, Kennedy, Langdon will do a lot of VFL time. Jack Frost , as good as he has been may also join this group. If he is good enough to hold out the older players all the better. That applies to any of the young players.

So i dont see this year as being one where youngsters build finals experience. I dont think many young players will be playing. Ruck division is the only exception and for that reason is potentially our weakness. The ones who are there will be there on merit. Come finals time I want to see us top 4 and looking at flag chances.

I love the way we have built a group of great young players but 2014 is a serious season and we will hopefully be taking in a seasoned finals team to the pointy end of the year. Hard to tell at this point who will be the real contenders as it is open but we should be setting ourselves up to be in it up to our necks come finals time. We have a balanced list that is very good. Any youngster who,can push out a senior comes with the expectation he has what it takes for the last day of September

 

[jonbe54]

I llok at this from a slightly different perspective. I have considered 2013 our worst season for a long time. Club was divided, injuries affected us and we had to play a lot of kids. 2014 was always likely to be a better year and that is how it looks so far. Still our performance has only been a pass so far.

I think what stands us in good stead this year is the return of our experience. With Beams, Fasolo, Toovey, Ball, Keefe and Young all ready for full seasons and White and maybe Adams near best 22 it means all the kids we played last year will be more likely VFL players in 2013. We had 13 premiership players playing on Sat and with Brown and Reid back shortly that may become 15. I think Langdon will drop out with time, has been a great addition and soon becomes relable depth. If Marley Williams gets good news tomorrow he will also be back soon.

I think Broomy, Scha

I don't entirely disagree GC, but like Bucks I have great faith that if youth grasps its opportunities good things can happen. At least we have a young talent pool in the magoo's worhty of speculating on for senior positions later in the year. Last year we were just worried about getting and keeping our senior talent on the park

 

[Fruit]

I think we should be excited about what lies ahead of us. We have comfortably beaten 3 sides that were expected to go deep into September in the past 4 games as well as taking Geelong right to the wire. In all of those games we have had some key personnel out as well as some average performances from players who usually contribute significantly to our wins.
We still have some good players injured or missing senior selection such as Reid, Seedsman, Adams, Brown, Williams, Dwyer etc and while they won't all get a game at once it does mean that any future injuries will be easier to cover. We didn't have this luxury last season.
We also have an early season advantage because expected top 4 finishers Freo & Sydney have had a couple of early losses each so we haven't lost any ground on them.
I'm backing us in.

 

[4tone]

As much as the media and the Hawks play it down and the results so far have backed it up, The franklin factor will be at some point come back to burn the Hawks. Its one less headache, its one less big slow type player you have to pick, its one more mobile damaging player you can pick. The hawks can be beaten, and who knows the pies might get 3 or more shots at it this year to do it.

The Cats can be beaten, same for the Dockers, but must avoid a Perth final same for the Swans. Port is one who I think will the one to beat, Those guys look like they would walk on glass for Hinkley.

 

[Gone Critical]

Sorry hit post before i finished the last post. Agree strongly that youth can be rewarded and take senior plaers spots. Its great when that happens. If the youngsters are good enough to banish Goldy or Blair thats great. In2013 we played a lot of youth by necessity because of missing senior players. In 2014 this wont be happening. So if a first or second year player can displace an incumbent on merit all power to them. My feeling is not too many will. Not because our youth isn't great. More because so many of the incumbents are in their prime years and are already a squad that matches all the top lists in the comp

 

[jonbe54]

Sorry hit post before i finished the last post. Agree strongly that youth can be rewarded and take senior plaers spots. Its great when that happens. If the youngsters are good enough to banish Goldy or Blair thats great. In2013 we played a lot of youth by necessity because of missing senior players. In 2014 this wont be happening. So if a first or second year player can displace an incumbent on merit all power to them. My feeling is not too many will. Not because our youth isn't great. More because so many of the incumbents are in their prime years and are already a squad that matches all the top lists in the comp

It's a wonderful position to be in GC, we finally have REAL competition for places in the team which is better for everyone. Like most I'm very eager to see Shazza show his wares, from training pics he looks a bloody solid unit for his age which is something we will need in the future as footy seems to be heading into the body shape of the american athlete with their bigger upper bodies even for sprinters which used to be slim -ish.

 

[rustyg70]

In one word;
Yes.

 

[HFF]

In one word;
Yes.

This is yet to be proven.

I believe we can hold our own against Cats, Swans and Freo but Port and Hawks in recent times have seriously troubled us. The jury is still out on this one in it's entirety.

 

[SuperSub17]

Why do Geelong keep beating Hawthorn?

Watching the game today, they forced them into so many turnovers coming from their defensive 50. As Ross Lyon said a fortnight ago, Hawthorn are vulnerable on the turnover, especially with no quality key defenders and a monster at full forward.

In 2010-11 we had two smashing wins over Hawthorn, and they still had a similar game style to today - precise foot skills and a spread of goalkickers. It was our pressure then that helped turn it over and we murdered them on the rebound, ala Geelong. Watch the match in round 15 2011, when they lost 4 games for the entire home and away season - we absolutely pumped them.

In 2012-13 this pressure dropped off to the point where we were conceding much higher scores than we had been - meaning Hawthorn kicked scores of 137, 138, 135, 145 and 119 in the five games against us in that period. Now this year, our defence has been amazing, particularly with no Reid and Brown - conceding scores of 69, 87, 72 and 58 in the last month.

We haven't had any problems scoring against them, scoring 115, 91, 97, 90 and 84 points in the 2012-13 games. It's just a matter of not allowing them to get off their precise skills game plan, and we're in with a massive chance of matching it with them.

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

Like I said late last week in another thread, if Port can turn around from the rabble they were to what they are now with the same squad then I don't see why we can't match it with the best when we have Swan, Pendlebury and Beams running through the middle and arguably the best forward in the game who kicked the second most goals last year.

The game plan is being executed better by the players, we are defending much better and protecting the corridor more than we have in a very long time. The players seem united and the bloody effort is there, with the talent we have we can do anything this season as long as the effort is there consistently through the season and we arnt hit with injuries.

Hawthorn, Port and Geelong are the top three and the fourth spot is open to who ever wants it, let's play this brand of footy we have been playing and things will take care of themselves. If we finish fourth and have a healthy list come finals time then it will be time to get excited.

 

[September Action]

I've been pondering this (thread) question all afternoon. Our gameplan is coming together. Particularly the defence has tightened up. We can play a press-pressure game, which is essentially what Geelong did today. I think we're a year off the strong bodies required to really challenge for a flag, but I'm feeling much more optimistic. It'll be very interesting to see if we're competitive against the Hawks mid season. Also I fear Lyon coaching against Buckley.

 

[rand corp]

Its a long season and my opinion is, not at the moment, we will need plenty of improvement throughout the year to be able to match it with these guys in September

 

[rustyg70]

We have no game plan.
Sack Buckley.
Bring back Mick.

 

[bradrowe#32]

If we apply the pressure we did on the weekend, we can match them. We must take our chances though, which I have less confidence in.

 

[gopies1981]

We can match it against the cats and with only 2 min to go we were only 5 points down and pendles had the ball and decided to handball to a man under pressure instead of kicking the ball!

With Reid back in the side I do believe we can beat the hawks but the only way to beat hawthorn is to but relentless physical pressure for 4 qtrs. the hawks are the best kicking side in the comp but if you look at Geelong that's how you beat then with 4 qtr pressure.

 

[jonbe54]

I've been pondering this (thread) question all afternoon. Our gameplan is coming together. Particularly the defence has tightened up. We can play a press-pressure game, which is essentially what Geelong did today. I think we're a year off the strong bodies required to really challenge for a flag, but I'm feeling much more optimistic. It'll be very interesting to see if we're competitive against the Hawks mid season. Also I fear Lyon coaching against Buckley.

Ross Lyon is a great coach - for getting a team to the finals - but after that

No runs on the board yet, his gameplan is limited but effective for making the most of a list that may not be brimming with talent.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Kicking straight in front of the sticks would easy give Pies a few more games. Would be the first area to improve upon.

 

[frizzle]

This is yet to be proven.

I believe we can hold our own against Cats, Swans and Freo but Port and Hawks in recent times have seriously troubled us. The jury is still out on this one in it's entirety.

Like I said earlier, Hawks & Port will be playing a team with a vastly different defensive setup than last year. 2013 will be irrelevant & we will be much harder to play against. Both of those teams took full advantage of the space we made available while we put in place our weak zone. They got easy goals from kick ins that they wont be able to get this year. We will be a much more formidable opponent.

 

[DaVe86]

The simple answer to the OP is YES.

We nearly had Geelong and they are top of the ladder undefeated.

But we have always matched up better against Geelong than Hawthorn, and Port Adelaide look dangerous as well. Therefore, we still need to test ourselves against these 2 sides before we really know how good we can be.

We have also only put 2 good weeks together. We need to put a month or more.

But Geelong gave everyone the blueprint of how to beat Hawthorn. Firstly you have to put heaps of pressure on their defenders and secondly you need a dominant forward. We have the capacity to do both, I'm just not sure yet if we can maintain it for 4 quarters against the best.

The start to our season has exceeded my expectations though. I thought we'd be about 2-3 or even 1-4. To be ahead of the ledger at 3-2 puts us very well placed now.

 

[nahnah]

We can't beat hawthorn, won't believe it till i see it. Every year we get completely blown away even if we have played relatively well. Geelong we can match, fix up our kicking skills like we did this weekend and we will beat them most times. Port is a team that worries me, they should be 5-0 if it weren't for a lot of injuries during their match with north. I don't think we can beat them but would love to be proven wrong. Freo is interesting... just how bad are they at the MCG? because we sure as hell can't compete with them at etihad.

All the other teams we have the ability to not only beat, but get a bit of % on the board.

 

[Markfs]

I started reading this thread but I stopped because I felt a bout of depression coming on. I have to keep telling myself that our players are going to approach the task of improvement with a lot better positive attitude. Everyone is so keen to show the world that they are experts that they have consigned us to being the perpetual bunny for Hawthorn. We cant beat Hawthorn...etc etc etc. Personally, I think we did ok against Hawthorn a few years ago when we had a more mature team that was well-drilled in the game-style we were using at the time. Now, we have got a lot of kids in. I was watching the Geelong Hawthorn game and the commentators said that there were no teenagers playing..... on either team. Hawthorn has a few newbies but they are mature VFL players. The same is true for Geelong. It is a genuine reason for not winning games. Hawthorn is packed with star players. They are a tremendously gifted kicking team..... and yet they were broken down to some degree by Geelong's pressure tactics. I think that this strategy works for any team. There is no doubt that Hawthorn has a bit of a mental block with Geelong. I can only hope that the players arent developing a similar thing with Hawthorn. I hope that the team doesnt have the same attitudes that are expressed here. To me, Hawthorn are just a better side than Collingwood at the moment. I'm hoping that it's the implementation of the plan thats the problem, not the plan itself like most of the early posters said. In some ways, it reminds me of the Collywobbles years ago. I wonder when the players started to believe that it was true. I got a feeling that fans created the myth first and pressurised the players into it...I would hate to see another loser mentality being generated.

 

[jonbe54]

I started reading this thread but I stopped because I felt a bout of depression coming on. I have to keep telling myself that our players are going to approach the task of improvement with a lot better positive attitude. Everyone is so keen to show the world that they are experts that they have consigned us to being the perpetual bunny for Hawthorn. We cant beat Hawthorn...etc etc etc. Personally, I think we did ok against Hawthorn a few years ago when we had a more mature team that was well-drilled in the game-style we were using at the time. Now, we have got a lot of kids in. I was watching the Geelong Hawthorn game and the commentators said that there were no teenagers playing..... on either team. Hawthorn has a few newbies but they are mature VFL players. The same is true for Geelong. It is a genuine reason for not winning games. Hawthorn is packed with star players. They are a tremendously gifted kicking team..... and yet they were broken down to some degree by Geelong's pressure tactics. I think that this strategy works for any team. There is no doubt that Hawthorn has a bit of a mental block with Geelong. I can only hope that the players arent developing a similar thing with Hawthorn. I hope that the team doesnt have the same attitudes that are expressed here. To me, Hawthorn are just a better side than Collingwood at the moment. I'm hoping that it's the implementation of the plan thats the problem, not the plan itself like most of the early posters said. In some ways, it reminds me of the Collywobbles years ago. I wonder when the players started to believe that it was true. I got a feeling that fans created the myth first and pressurised the players into it...I would hate to see another loser mentality being generated.

Agree on pressure Mark - as I've said before its the only way for a less talented team to bring down a gifted opponent, the trick is to keep it applied for 100 minutes - even 10 minutes of 90% application can see the gifted team kick clear and win.

 

[Bay Pie]

Hawks cut us up with their foot skills because we zoned when we didn't have the ball last year. Allowed them to pinpoint passes without a contest. Watch the last few weeks, we have played a more man on man contested style game. They wont smash us next time provided we continue the game style we are currently playing. With 90 seconds to go in the game we still could have beat the cats. Add Brown, Reid & Williams & Sinkers to the team & we will be even harder to beat. We aren't far away. I don't expect us to be premiers this season, but we aren't far away from the cream in the competition.

Very key points Frizz.

 

[Shaneprice97]

I think we played better against Hawthorn is 2013 than we did against them in 2012. In 2013 we played really well against them in about 3 quarters in the first game from memory, and the second time we lost due to poor kicking and turn overs ect, we would get a goal from working so hard then they would score a goal from virtually us giving the ball to them.


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[Vinnie Vegas]

I'm hardly known as being a clueless homer when it comes to this club, but the amount of people in this thread saying that "we can't and we won't best Hawthorn" are pretty disgraceful, as far as I'm concerned.

I get that we have a bad record against them, but the idea that we can't beat them embarrassingly negative.

Harden up fellas - Once bitten, twice shy is the attitude of losers.

Having low expectations is not a protection against the pain of losing - It's going to hurt either way, so why not support the club.

We can beat Hawthorn. We might not, but to suggest that we can't is so silly I'm actually stunned so many have said it.