Rumour Carlisle

[Boxhead_31]

As well, Carlisle wasn't suspended under the drugs policy he was suspended under "bringing the game into disrepute."

He received a strike did he not? What is the punishment for receiving a strike again?

 

[Hardhat11]

Thanks.
It is now nearly 30 years since she died. I am in my late 50's and happily married but it remains in my memory.

I have worked on both sides of the fence regarding the drug problem, part of the legal machine and also involved in charity with street kids and the homeless and trying to help those who want it liaising with various agencies and organisations. Recently a 'friend' who had been off drugs for over ten years relapsed and returned to taking smack, stole everything from his family and was back in the legal merry-go-round of drugs and crime.

So I guess what I am saying is excuse me for my cynicism regarding drug users. One too many times to the well for me perhaps and I probably don't cope as well with disappointments as I used to. There are others who remain clean and have managed to escape their flirtation and experimentation with drugs and now have happy 'normal' lives (- whatever that means).

I suppose that's why I don't have much sympathy as I used to for those that seek a high via taking drugs, or think it is cool, or think it should be condoned as normal behaviour in society. I have always given people a chance to redeem themselves and help those who want to give it up.
I have seen people using drugs as a means of self medication to escape lifes problems. They deserve sympathy and support. Increasingly however the it appears to me that most users are those seeking self satisfaction and don't seem to give a sh*t. Again this may be just a case of me being tired and overexposed to the problem

Giving people a slap on the wrist for taking some of the more dangerous and addictive drugs is not an answer in itself. It lets people of the hook too easily - it is better to put them into treatment or diversion programs and try to nip it in the bud at the earliest opportunity. Unfortunately there are not enough services and programs to provide for addicts. I wish more people would get off their arses and try to help. Ice has changed the goalposts considerably. For those of you in this forum who are having a 'fling' with drugs - my advice is stay away from it. Look at the unfortunate death of Phillip Walsh. (RIP).

Anyway, this is a football forum.
The AFL drug policy is a joke. Carlisle's penalty and fine are well over the top for someone using what appears to be cocaine. The public shame and humiliation was probably sufficient. The AFL was caught with its pants down and over compensated for its own policy shortcomings in illicit drugs policy by trying to appear tough. Get your act together AFL.

Apologies for my indulgence in posting this, but I get annoyed when people google information and try to pass it off as a means of justifying a stupid, selfish, indulgent, costly, soul, family and life destroying scourge on society.

No apology needed

I agree on the point you made there a new breed of drug user who doesn't have an underlying trauma or mental health issues .....they just go hell yeah gimme some of that and away they go. I suspect there's probably some underlying cause but it's rather hard to spot or work out.

If anything highlighting what Carlisle did in the media and so on doesn't make someone else go ok well I'm not going to do a line of some thing at a party ...if anything it normalises it

I do believe that while afl players are very well paid they under pressure a lot during the season and even mid tier players having to fight for spots in the team each week and a contract at the end of the season .....It's ruthless business. I just think they are under pressure and like to let of steam

The drug Education these guys get is poorly delivered ....it's all about saying stop ...no ...don't do that

I'd rather a harm minimisation approach to it - educate and ask them why they like drugs ...what are they trying to get out of it ....bring in ex players who've had long careers and have used drugs to mentor them

Include the social media aspect to it all also - ok lads if you're going to use at some point and most will try ...make sure no phones are about ....I regularly educate people on drug use in my role as a counsellor because I know they will use. The education has to be built from the premise they will use instead of this patchwork quilt of trying to fix it after they have used

People and players will use drugs so stop trying to make them not ........educate them on what to do ....how and also when to seal help if it becomes more than just a dabble at nightclub in the off season

We also have duty of care to these young men to reduce to pressure and stress on them during the season to help find alternatives. I suspect also that if you try to stop drug uses you'll see a problem like gambling increase which it has and other things. The two players I worked with said they didn't like alcohol much because of the side effects of weight gain and often resulted in bad food eaten that night and do that a few times in the off season and all of a sudden you roll up to pre season camp looking like Scott Cummings. Weight gain for an athlete is a massive problem if it happens to them them

They are young men wanting to party a bit and do you blame them

The drug education they are recovering is largely based on a christian model if you do this you're a sinner and you must repent and you must never sin again ....dead set its Rubbish and fails

 

[Hardhat11]

Wow drugs are illegal but check the latest stats on drug driving, if drugs were like alcohol where the majority of society drink alcohol, can you imagine the deaths on the road

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-23/drug-drivers-exceed-rate-drink-drivers-research/6342102

Stats ....a lot of those would have involved alcohol also

An accident involving both drugs and alcohol will more likely be highlighted as drugs

Cannabis stays in you're system for 28-40 days ......you could show a cannabis reading and have an accident and everyone will say he was on drugs .....he had a joint at party three weeks ago

He had an accident because he made mistake yet drugs will get linked ......ok meth ...

A meth user is portrayed as a lunatic yet really the come down three days afterwards is the most problematic and when he will have an accident not when he's using. When he or she is coming down they are angry and so and flat and the brain isn't working ....yet they may pass a drug test.

You simply cannot assume because of the drug stats are high that was the cause, you need to know how they affect the brain and central never our system. Fatigue from partying a lot is just as dangerous and the lack of sleep is far more dangerous than the drug itself. Someone high may have an accident and be recorded as a drug accident but there many other factors at play

 

[Gruffles]

Cannabis stays in you're system for 28-40 days ......you could show a cannabis reading and have an accident and everyone will say he was on drugs .....he had a joint at party three weeks ago

Many good points in your post but I was under the impression that the saliva thc test only picked up the active form of the drug, which is in your system for about 6 hours after smoking. The inactive form, post processing by the liver, can hang around the body for weeks, but is not detected in the saliva test.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[marty36]

Stats ....a lot of those would have involved alcohol also

An accident involving both drugs and alcohol will more likely be highlighted as drugs

Cannabis stays in you're system for 28-40 days ......you could show a cannabis reading and have an accident and everyone will say he was on drugs .....he had a joint at party three weeks ago

He had an accident because he made mistake yet drugs will get linked ......ok meth ...

A meth user is portrayed as a lunatic yet really the come down three days afterwards is the most problematic and when he will have an accident not when he's using. When he or she is coming down they are angry and so and flat and the brain isn't working ....yet they may pass a drug test.

You simply cannot assume because of the drug stats are high that was the cause, you need to know how they affect the brain and central never our system. Fatigue from partying a lot is just as dangerous and the lack of sleep is far more dangerous than the drug itself. Someone high may have an accident and be recorded as a drug accident but there many other factors at play

I think your missing the point, the number of incidents that invlove drugs is ridiculous, considering the usage of it.

How many of the Australian population drink alcohol aged 16-80 years of age maybe 80% if not 90%

Now how many of the Austrlian population take drugs aged 16-80 years of age maybe 10% if not 15%, yes a lot more younger ones but we are comparing the Australian population

So when comparing stats like murder rates and driving under a substance, take into consideration the usage and what would happen if those rates of usage went to 50%, can you see the effect it would have? As you need to look at the entire poulation on these stats.

Will legalise or decriminalsing the product have an increased in usage, maybe or maybe not but is it worth the risk of more lives. Maybe that is why the government will not geive it a go, too many innocent people could be killed.

 

[kfc1]

I think your missing the point, the number of incidents that invlove drugs is ridiculous, considering the usage of it.

How many of the Australian population drink alcohol aged 16-80 years of age maybe 80% if not 90%

Now how many of the Austrlian population take drugs aged 16-80 years of age maybe 10% if not 15%, yes a lot more younger ones but we are comparing the Australian population

So when comparing stats like murder rates and driving under a substance, take into consideration the usage and what would happen if those rates of usage went to 50%, can you see the effect it would have? As you need to look at the entire poulation on these stats.

Will legalise or decriminalsing the product have an increased in usage, maybe or maybe not but is it worth the risk of more lives. Maybe that is why the government will not geive it a go, too many innocent people could be killed.

The illegality of drugs contributes to a higher percentage - its illegal already, so why would you care about drug driving and getting caught etc? With alcohol its socially and legally acceptable to drink but not to then drive, so there is societal pressure not to do so. That doesn't exist with substances that are already illegal

 

[kfc1]

Many good points in your post but I was under the impression that the saliva thc test only picked up the active form of the drug, which is in your system for about 6 hours after smoking. The inactive form, post processing by the liver, can hang around the body for weeks, but is not detected in the saliva test.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Pretty sure they will do a blood test if you're in a crash

 

[Gruffles]

Pretty sure they will do a blood test if you're in a crash

Once again... I'm pretty sure the blood tests only pick up the active form of the drug, not the inactive form. I think this "people are getting done for smoking a joint from three weeks ago" argument is actually a bit of a myth. The rest of the points you make are pertinent, though.

From norml.org:
"Blood tests, unlike urinalysis, detect the presence illicit drugs, not inactive drug metabolites. In general, THC only remains detectable in the blood of cannabis consumers for a few hours (though low, residual levels may be detected in chronic smokers for up to 12-24+ hours if more sensitive technology is used). Because of this narrow detection window, blood tests are typically only administered in the workplace post-accident in order to estimate recent cannabis consumption. Therefore, most after-hours consumers have little to fear from a blood screen."

 

[blackcat]

Think about the damage gambling does to families .......

What real damage has Carlisle done ?

It's not a trick question ....people get their knickers in Knott over drugs

Drugs no ......danger danger with alarms going off ...yet Swartz blew a million easily

What's the bigger problem ?

evo can answer this one. not wrt Ox neither.

*personally, if I say, use, or invoke the term scourge wrt gambling advertising, the term scourge, it needs qualification.

*** scourge is rhetoric. much like Benson&Hedges, gambling is funding the pay packets of Carlisle instead of Dennis Lillee and Rod Marsh. I don't like pokies or pokie companies neither.

however, the government is not there to legislate away freedoms innit? or innit?

 

[blackcat]

If only that even came close to how much this is going to cost him!

Lets just say he won't want to get injured or suspended any more any time in the near future.

This might be the biggest whack (aside from a sacking) I've ever seen anyone on a playing list get in the AFL. Hard to think of anything that even comes close, actually.

might come out and be AA centre-half-back again for 2016, then they prolly give him back the marketing component of his salary, and activate the component for the next years and remaining years...

atm, this will just be spin from Finnis and St Kilda. I am sure he gets a slap on wrist punishment, prolly loses the 50k, and, if he pulls his finger out, has a big preseason and all that entails, and the "what have you done for me lately" AFL MO/treatment of players, he will be back in the good-books. It is just the off-season, so it will take himself 6 months to rehabilitate himself because there are no games, fewer training sessions... remember Jarrod Wellingham at Collingwood driving drunk and/or unlicensed in Lorne as a rookie player circa 2008 off-season, went on to become quasi AA at Collingwood.

devil's advocate: i) I dont think it is a platitude to say players need to "let off steam" in the off-season. These are young men in a particular stage of their life
ii) p'raps, like Wellingham, and about 6 others everyone could name off the top of their head in this thread, getting into trouble may push Carlisle to re-evaluate his career and push him to higher levels. not the qualifier: "may".
iii) they live on the edge on the ground, it is natural this is extrapolated off the pitch
iiii) i have problems with roman numerals btw
iiiii) similar to (111) or, a confluence, the personality type that makes these people take recreational drugs, dovetails with them being a great sportsman. also, dovetails with PEDs, its a dovetail/confluence gateway drug!

 

[sammm]

He received a strike did he not? What is the punishment for receiving a strike again?

He received a strike becase he said he wanted to accept that.
All o know is what the afl said. And they said he was charged under bringing the game into disrepute

 

[Hardhat11]

Many good points in your post but I was under the impression that the saliva thc test only picked up the active form of the drug, which is in your system for about 6 hours after smoking. The inactive form, post processing by the liver, can hang around the body for weeks, but is not detected in the saliva test.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's a good point and one I overlooked I'm so used to clients being tested a different way ...urinalysis

 

[Hardhat11]

I think your missing the point, the number of incidents that invlove drugs is ridiculous, considering the usage of it.

How many of the Australian population drink alcohol aged 16-80 years of age maybe 80% if not 90%

Now how many of the Austrlian population take drugs aged 16-80 years of age maybe 10% if not 15%, yes a lot more younger ones but we are comparing the Australian population

So when comparing stats like murder rates and driving under a substance, take into consideration the usage and what would happen if those rates of usage went to 50%, can you see the effect it would have? As you need to look at the entire poulation on these stats.

Will legalise or decriminalsing the product have an increased in usage, maybe or maybe not but is it worth the risk of more lives. Maybe that is why the government will not geive it a go, too many innocent people could be killed.

Many drugs cause fatigue also so does alcohol

What's ten answer ....we'll it's the same with alcohol and driving we must as individuals take responsibility for our actions ...you can't legislate for stupidity

 

[1970crow]

So what drugs do you want to decriminalise?
Who supplies the drugs?
Do you allow the selling of drugs through retail outlets?
What dosages are allowed?
What taxes do you apply to drugs?
What do you do for people who become addicted?
What do you do regarding drug affected behaviour - driving, in a public place etc?
Who pays for the health care services?
Legal age?

You probably couldn't even tell me what the current existing laws cover - let alone the penalties and the way they are interpreted and administered by the courts, sentencing etc.

Pro drugs? If you are using drugs to get high - get a life and stop. Get help if you need it.

This is ridiculous. In the absence of any form of governmental control, the free market dictates. The answers under your preferred regime is;

None.
Backyard cooks, nefarious importers, hydro growers.
Drug dealers are retail outlets.
No control on dosages at all, either in concentration or volume.
No taxes, criminals bank the full profit.
Same as we do now.
Same as we do now.
Same as now, I suppose we could ask the crime syndicates to kick a bit back though.
Same as now, 8 years old I think it is.

 

[fishardansin]

Another Ellliot Kavanagh type should fit in nicely.

The guy we took at pick 20?

 

[fishardansin]

For your comparison to work better, you needed to nominate some de-listed great white hope. Face it, you had top-up players in the pre season who showed more than young Elliot.

Anyway, things have changed since you drafted that gun - the only fathers who will try draft tampering this year are the ones that won't let their sons get to Essendon.

Like Laverde last year? Stop being bitter that his dad wasn't interested in your club.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

Like Laverde last year? Stop being bitter that his dad wasn't interested in your club.

Bitter? Oh, sure, that's it.

I mean, it's not as if I'd laugh at the irony of him being absolute crap after what happened to get him there. No, not at all. I'm bitter. **sfellow**

And let's pretend pick 20 is a nothing, speculative, throwaway pick so we can feel better about wasting it.

 

[DapperDon]

Bitter? Oh, sure, that's it.

I mean, it's not as if I'd laugh at the irony of him being absolute crap after what happened to get him there. No, not at all. I'm bitter. **sfellow**

And let's pretend pick 20 is a nothing, speculative, throwaway pick so we can feel better about wasting it.

Fair melt for someone who's not bitter.

 

[WolfLikeMe]

Wheres that poster that said essendon didnt know about the video or that they didnt know his where abouts/carlisle cost them an asada fine

 

[fishardansin]

Wheres that poster that said essendon didnt know about the video or that they didnt know his where abouts/carlisle cost them an asada fine

That was earlier.

 

[WolfLikeMe]

That was earlier.

Came from the GM of football what was it less than 2 weeks ago

Also came from dodoro after the trade

In other words your football club is still full of s**t and its supporters eat it up in spades like gullible monkeys

Its just sad really. I had a really high opinion of essendon as a kid in the 90s. Seemed like a good honest club that played fair and won their flags with character and integrity. Now i hold the pies and carlton in higher regard in that regard. Its a shame really

 

[Jobe Watson]

Bitter? Oh, sure, that's it.

Yeah, you only brought up something that happened 4 years ago, quoting a post about this year's draft in a thread about Jake Carlisle. Not bitter at all.

Don't worry man. You avoided Kavanagh and instead drafted McKenzie, who's going great guns and looks set for a long and fruitful career. Let it go.

 

[fishardansin]

Came from the GM of football what was it less than 2 weeks ago

Also came from dodoro after the trade

In other words your football club is still full of s**t and its supporters eat it up in spades like gullible monkeys

Its just sad really. I had a really high opinion of essendon as a kid in the 90s. Seemed like a good honest club that played fair and won their flags with character and integrity. Now i hold the pies and carlton in higher regard in that regard. Its a shame really

No they said they didn't know. Pick 5 and YOUR 2nd rounder is all we knew about.

 

[WolfLikeMe]

No they said they didn't know. Pick 5 and YOUR 2nd rounder is all we knew about.

Yeh they did. Channel 7 said to the age that they informed Carlisle's manager and essendon the day before the trade went through

And they knew about carlisles where abouts as they informed hawthorn of them. So your GM is absolutely full of it. But that's hardly a surprise

 

[marty36]

Yeh they did. Channel 7 said to the age that they informed Carlisle's manager and essendon the day before the trade went through

And they knew about carlisles where abouts as they informed hawthorn of them. So your GM is absolutely full of it. But that's hardly a surprise

Essendon love the, Deny Deny Deny response, that is until they get found out, like what has occured yet again