Carlton’s soul exorcised, I am disappointed

[Kanga87]

Oh dear. You are kidding yourself.

The AFL just wanted to make an example out of Carlton after multiple salary cap breaches by teams in the late 80s and 90s.

Not going to get into an Essendon is guilty debate here but if Essendon truly is guilty (Jobe's admission alone makes them sound guilty), the AFL has allowed Essendon off lightly.

Ask yourself what's worse for the game's image and the game itself going forward? Cap breaches which multiple teams have done and now teams are doing it with third party stuff, or a doping program which could have effects on lives on the future?

no you are kidding yourself, numerous clubs breached the cap in the 90's but only minorly and were given warnings, obviously as the cap was still relatively new and the AFL gave leeway for adjustment, however Carlton blatantly breached the cap at a material rate (blame John Elliot for that one) and deserved to be punished for what was blatant cheating. look at the Melbourne storm who lost a premiership and a whole season for doing the same thing, Carlton actually got off lightly for what they did I reckon. and in regards to Essendon, jobe Watson admitted to take aod whatever which is still not proven to be illegal and if it asada will hand down their punishments which could potentially have an impact 10 times worse than Carlton punishment

 

[PP34]

no you are kidding yourself, numerous clubs breached the cap in the 90's but only minorly and were given warnings, obviously as the cap was still relatively new and the AFL gave leeway for adjustment, however Carlton blatantly breached the cap at a material rate (blame John Elliot for that one) and deserved to be punished for what was blatant cheating. look at the Melbourne storm who lost a premiership and a whole season for doing the same thing, Carlton actually got off lightly for what they did I reckon. and in regards to Essendon, jobe Watson admitted to take aod whatever which is still not proven to be illegal and if it asada will hand down their punishments which could potentially have an impact 10 times worse than Carlton punishment

2 year bans would ruin them for 2 years but they wouldn't be in the shitter for 7 years afterwards.

 

[I am Jack]

2 year bans would ruin them for 2 years but they wouldn't be in the shitter for 7 years afterwards.

Tanking does not pay.

 

[PP34]

Tanking does not pay.

Wouldn't say it was all tanking. We had some genuinely pathetic teams under Pagan.

 

[Big Fresh]

That old saying you're only as good as your lesser players is truth, and Carlton's drafting has been fine in the first round, appalling in the later rounds.

2008: Chris Yarran
2009: Kane Lucas
2010: Matthew Watson
2011: Josh Bootsma

Nah it's been pretty awful in the first round as well.

 

[BEEG]

Carlton were going to struggle to kick goals I'm still amazed you can drop Garlett and Waite stupid decision

 

[Blue1980]

Tanking does not pay.

Unless your Collingwood or hawthorn

 

[Blue1980]

2008: Chris Yarran
2009: Kane Lucas
2010: Matthew Watson
2011: Josh Bootsma

Nah it's been pretty awful in the first round as well.

Yarran is fine the others not so much

 

[Tulip]

The AFL is the main reason we're in this mess.

Hence why they've avoided going whack on Essendon.

Essendon were punished worse than you.

The main reason Carlton is in this predicament is a deluded sense of entitlement.

I never rated Ratten as a coach, but Sticks' inability to see that losing to the Gold Coast isn't the worst thing in the world was a turning point. As was hiring someone who only decided to come back because he was bitter.

 

[Tulip]

Oh, not to mention rorting the salary cap on purpose.

 

[PP34]

Essendon were punished worse than you.

The main reason Carlton is in this predicament is a deluded sense of entitlement.

I never rated Ratten as a coach, but Sticks' inability to see that losing to the Gold Coast isn't the worst thing in the world was a turning point. As was hiring someone who only decided to come back because he was bitter.

They were, do explain how?

They've been punished so badly that they're marching to a top 4 spot and possibly a flag despite clearly running a very shift program.

Ratten wasn't sacked on the back of one game, 2012 was a disaster. At the time I hated the sacking because we were dealing with tons of injuries but it was the right thing to do because Ratten wasn't building towards a flag clearly. Look at the list he has left Mick with, and the mindsets of that list.

Oh, not to mention rorting the salary cap on purpose.

We're not the first club to do that and won't be the last.

 

[Tulip]

They were, do explain how?

They've been punished so badly that they're marching to a top 4 spot and possibly a flag despite clearly running a very shift program.

Ratten wasn't sacked on the back of one game, 2012 was a disaster. At the time I hated the sacking because we were dealing with tons of injuries but it was the right thing to do because Ratten wasn't building towards a flag clearly. Look at the list he has left Mick with, and the mindsets of that list.

We're not the first club to do that and won't be the last.

Knocked out of the finals, a year of no draft picks and a $2M fine. That's opposed to two years of no draft picks and a $1M fine.

That's because Essendon's list is led by Watson, Goddard, Carlisle and Heppell - not Bradley, Mackay, Ratten and Campo.

Carlton were in a shocking position when they fell, a list managers nightmare. Full of old players and little tall timber.

The sacking of Ratten is like the sacking of Bailey. In the end, it's proven that the coach wasn't at fault. The list he has left Mick with was bad, but Malthouse has had two recruitment periods and still failed to fix the KPP issue.

It's the classic Carlton '* off we're the best' or 'we're Carlton, she'll be right' attitude that has put you here.

Judd has carried the team for years, Murphy went toe to toe with a superior player and captain today and felt the full force.

Rebuild time for the Blues, Judd should be given his armband back. Absolute champion.

 

[roomagic1984]

Blaming the afl is like blaming a chick for being raped because she was dressed slutty..

 

[PP34]

Knocked out of the finals, a year of no draft picks and a $2M fine. That's opposed to two years of no draft picks and a $1M fine.

That's because Essendon's list is led by Watson, Goddard, Carlisle and Heppell - not Bradley, Mackay, Ratten and Campo.

Carlton were in a shocking position when they fell, a list managers nightmare. Full of old players and little tall timber.

The sacking of Ratten is like the sacking of Bailey. In the end, it's proven that the coach wasn't at fault. The list he has left Mick with was bad, but Malthouse has had two recruitment periods and still failed to fix the KPP issue.

It's the classic Carlton '**** off we're the best' or 'we're Carlton, she'll be right' attitude that has put you here.

Judd has carried the team for years, Murphy went toe to toe with a superior player and captain today and felt the full force.

Rebuild time for the Blues, Judd should be given his armband back. Absolute champion.

Point one: In the long run that's meaningless to Essendon. Finals is nice but in the long run they've still got a flag chance. Sure we were but then the system that is in place to help us fix the list wasn't there because we were stripped of picks. A year of no draft picks means nothing when you're in the top 8 of the AFL and heading up the ladder, plus there's room for trades. Goddard is a great player and would've helped us immensely, same with Wells.

Ratten instilled a ridiculously stupid mindset into the players. Had them believe it's all about speed. No focus on disposal and the recruitment of so many similar type half forward players is beyond ridiculous. Relied on Judd to carry his midfield for almost five years and had no plans for when he aged.

As for the comment about Mick's recruitment periods, what a load of s**t. Revisionist history is great. There was such a great pool of key position players that Carlton could've got, wasn't there?

At least Mick realised the list needed changing and has begun wheeling out the duds. If Sticks and the board had their way we wouldn't have made many changes at all last year.

 

[Baldur]

A couple of years of no draft picks and a fine they could afford to pay and Carlton still use this as an excuse. Slowed their rebuild by TWO YEARS. Thats it. It was over a decade ago, get over it.

 

[Tulip]

Point one: In the long run that's meaningless to Essendon. Finals is nice but in the long run they've still got a flag chance. Sure we were but then the system that is in place to help us fix the list wasn't there because we were stripped of picks. A year of no draft picks means nothing when you're in the top 8 of the AFL and heading up the ladder, plus there's room for trades. Goddard is a great player and would've helped us immensely, same with Wells.

Ratten instilled a ridiculously stupid mindset into the players. Had them believe it's all about speed. No focus on disposal and the recruitment of so many similar type half forward players is beyond ridiculous. Relied on Judd to carry his midfield for almost five years and had no plans for when he aged.

As for the comment about Mick's recruitment periods, what a load of s**t. Revisionist history is great. There was such a great pool of key position players that Carlton could've got, wasn't there?

At least Mick realised the list needed changing and has begun wheeling out the duds. If Sticks and the board had their way we wouldn't have made many changes at all last year.

They played a season out for nothing. I don't disagree that the punishments set Carlton back, but you blamed the AFL as the reason. Not true, you cheated and you paid the price. Especially considering Melbourne, the late Bails and Chris Connolly took the brunt of your tanking.

What revisionism, everyone has been saying it! The Demons had no KPFs, so we recruited Clark, Dawes and Hogan within two years. Look at Crameri, or Podsiadly, or White - it's not going to be the best players available, but other teams have found themselves some KPPs. Drafting duds like Watson doesn't help, but then you overlook a McCarthy type to pick up another midfielder in Cripps (how good was JKH's chase!). It's as if a decent game from Waite every once in a while is good enough, and it has always been good enough.

Your club should take some responsibility and give itself a good dressing down. Always chasing quick solutions rather than taking it the hard way. Not saying my team is much better, mind you. But the facts are, Carlton continues to look inwards for a hero rather than realising that they're 19 years without a flag, and that it's not the VFL anymore.

 

[JeffDunne]

Knocked out of the finals, a year of no draft picks and a $2M fine. That's opposed to two years of no draft picks and a $1M fine.

People also forget that Carlton traded away their 2nd round pick before the penalties were handed down. So it was a 1st and 3rd in the first year.

Then in the second year of penalties, they we given a priority pick (Andrew Walker) despite losing their 1st rounder.

It really was hitting them with a wet lettuce given the scale of cheating.

 

[PP34]

They played a season out for nothing. I don't disagree that the punishments set Carlton back, but you blamed the AFL as the reason. Not true, you cheated and you paid the price. Especially considering Melbourne, the late Bails and Chris Connolly took the brunt of your tanking.

What revisionism, everyone has been saying it! The Demons had no KPFs, so we recruited Clark, Dawes and Hogan within two years. Look at Crameri, or Podsiadly, or White - it's not going to be the best players available, but other teams have found themselves some KPPs. Drafting duds like Watson doesn't help, but then you overlook a McCarthy type to pick up another midfielder in Cripps (how good was JKH's chase!). It's as if a decent game from Waite every once in a while is good enough, and it has always been good enough.

Your club should take some responsibility and give itself a good dressing down. Always chasing quick solutions rather than taking it the hard way. Not saying my team is much better, mind you. But the facts are, Carlton continues to look inwards for a hero rather than realising that they're 19 years without a flag, and that it's not the VFL anymore.

So did other sides, we were the team that was put out as an example of what happens when you cap rort.

As for the tanking comment, take a look at the list from 2002-2007 and tell me how that list was anything better than a bottom side.

Why the hell would we recruit any of the blokes? See that's the reason we're in the predicament we're in now. None of those blokes would help us win our next flag.

I don't deny that last point. Hence why I want everyone associated with the old Carlton era out of the club, same goes with Bruce Mathieson.

 

[Thrawn]

Essendon were punished worse than you.

No they weren't. The draft penalties considering where we were on the ladder, were far more severe.

 

[JeffDunne]

No they weren't. The draft penalties considering where we were on the ladder, were far more severe.

Why should that be considered when giving out penalties?

 

[PP34]

Why should that be considered when giving out penalties?

Because unless the AFL is in the business of destroying clubs, it is in their best interests to ensure clubs can survive. Imagine if something happened to North or another poorer club and they did everything in their power to ruin them?

 

[Obese Arachnid]

So did other sides, we were the team that was put out as an example of what happens when you cap rort.

As for the tanking comment, take a look at the list from 2002-2007 and tell me how that list was anything better than a bottom side.

Why the hell would we recruit any of the blokes? See that's the reason we're in the predicament we're in now. None of those blokes would help us win our next flag.

I don't deny that last point. Hence why I want everyone associated with the old Carlton era out of the club, same goes with Bruce Mathieson.

You're such a shambles you can't afford to make a moral decision like that.

 

[PP34]

You're such a shambles you can't afford to make a moral decision like that.

It would be wise to do so. Honestly Carlton should wake up and stop throwing cash at things.

 

[JeffDunne]

Because unless the AFL is in the business of destroying clubs, it is in their best interests to ensure clubs can survive. Imagine if something happened to North or another poorer club and they did everything in their power to ruin them?

If you're paying 150% of the cap then you can hardly cry poor.

Besides, the argument was based on the quality of the list, not the financial penalty.

FWIW, did Carlton ever get around to paying that? I'm not sure they did.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What am amazing OP to read in hindsight ...

I actually don't recall ever reading a more insightful and accurate glimpse into the future on this site.

It's one of the great BF posts.