Carlton in the Media (articles, podcasts etc)

[Broadside]

Someone posted an excerpt from it a little while back. Fascinating reading the thoughts of a list manager as the draft plays out.

let's just recruit Emma Quayle for the drafting

 

[HARKER]

Has anybody read Emma Quayle's new book about the draft and Clem Smith in particular? it's interesting how Rogers ranked last years draft. My interpretation from it is that he must have had Boekhorst and Rainbow inside his top 10 because he speaks about the lead up to pick 60 and Dean Gore still being available who was at number 11 on his list. Geelong grabbed Gore a couple of selections ahead of ours and we subsequently took Smith at 60 who Rogers ranked at number 20 on his list.

I believe that you're right about Boekhorst & DVR.

Boekhorst was rated very high.

 

[HARKER]

let's just recruit Emma Quayle for the drafting

Emma doesn't draft....She just relates the state of play.

Would love to see her do her own draft 1 - 50 and not where she understands where players may end up.

No one person can follow every player in the country...............It's impossible.

 

[thylacine60]

Gawd that must be a nerve wracking job.

Slightly less stressful than bomb-disposal but more at stake........

 

[Broadside]

Emma doesn't draft....She just relates the state of play.

I know. Use her list and we get the collective expertise of 17 other clubs.

It seems to me that clubs ignore certain players who won't make it to their picks and they rank their list according to that.

not many people thought Laverde would get to pick 19 for example. Maybe we didn't do our due diligence on him?

 

[HARKER]

Not many people thought Laverde would get to pick 19 for example. Maybe we didn't do our due diligence on him?

We certainly did do our due diligence.

If you can criticize Rogers for anything it may be for doing too much work.

 

[Teagueeee15]

It seems to me that clubs ignore certain players who won't make it to their picks and they rank their list according to that. I find it very hard to believe that Rogers had BB and DVR ranked inside the top 10 players in the draft. Just doesn't seem to match any conventional wisdom if they are including every player in that.

Rogers talks about Brayshaw and Petracca being top of his list, so I don't think that's correct.

On Laverde, the book says that Rogers rated him very highly. It reads to me as though Rogers was a fan of Boekhorst but that the coaches were the ones who really wanted Boekhorst after watching him play. I'm not so sure after reading it that the baker was the one being left to bake the bread as much as he would have liked to.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

On Laverde, the book says that Rogers rated him very highly. It reads to me as though Rogers was a fan of Boekhorst but that the coaches were the ones who really wanted Boekhorst after watching him play. I'm not so sure after reading it that the baker was the one being left to bake the bread as much as he would have liked to.

That would be a reflection on the football department and Mick's wishes.

The term 'let the baker bake the bread' refers to the board not getting involved in stuff they know nothing about. If Rogers, Mick and McKay weren't on the same page as members of the football department, we can see why a List Manager was required, and you can see why the board start poking their heads in.

 

[Teagueeee15]

It seems to me that clubs ignore certain players who won't make it to their picks and they rank their list according to that. I find it very hard to believe that Rogers had BB and DVR ranked inside the top 10 players in the draft. Just doesn't seem to match any conventional wisdom if they are including every player in that.

Having read some more, it appears as though you are on the right track with your thinking in that Roger's list didn't reflect who he thought was best, followed by who he thought was second best, then third best...etc but rather his list was based on what our needs were (speed was the number one priority). Based on the contents of the book, had we kept pick seven then we would have selected Liam Duggan as he was the highest available based on the list.

It's interesting the different philosophies between Hughes and Rogers. Hughes philosophy was based on taking the best available player no matter what position they played and his list would be based on best player, followed by second best player then third best player...etc but Rogers was in contrast to this and would go do the draft with a list based on needs. It looks as though the only tall in Rogers top eight on his list was Caleb Marchbank.

 

[HARKER]

That would be a reflection on the football department and Mick's wishes.

The term 'let the baker bake the bread' refers to the board not getting involved in stuff they know nothing about. If Rogers, Mick and McKay weren't on the same page as members of the football department, we can see why a List Manager was required, and you can see why the board start poking their heads in.

That could have been somewhat problematic when it is allowed to go on.
A List Manager is vital and I'm glad we have that position in practice now.

There has been too much cross-pollination of duties and it can work every......but generally speaking, it's not a great idea.

 

[Cipher]

Has anybody read Emma Quayle's new book about the draft and Clem Smith in particular? it's interesting how Rogers ranked last years draft. My interpretation from it is that he must have had Boekhorst and Rainbow inside his top 10 because he speaks about the lead up to pick 60 and Dean Gore still being available who was at number 11 on his list. Geelong grabbed Gore a couple of selections ahead of ours and we subsequently took Smith at 60 who Rogers ranked at number 20 on his list.

If he rated a player that highly that was likely to go late, why would we trade pick 44 or whatever for Jones. Surely you ensure you have a 3rd rounder if there's a chance of a steal. Doesn't make much sense and ODN is probably right in many players being discounted in those rankings.

 

[El Topo]

If he rated a player that highly that was likely to go late, why would we trade pick 44 or whatever for Jones. Surely you ensure you have a 3rd rounder if there's a chance of a steal. Doesn't make much sense and ODN is probably right in many players being discounted in those rankings.

Goes back to the issue of not having a list manager, 12 months on no-one here can honestly say who was responsible for what, and I'd bet there was an element of the same confusion inside the club during trade week

 

[Teagueeee15]

If he rated a player that highly that was likely to go late, why would we trade pick 44 or whatever for Jones. Surely you ensure you have a 3rd rounder if there's a chance of a steal. Doesn't make much sense and ODN is probably right in many players being discounted in those rankings.

Firstly, Rogers was of the impression that we would get a third round compensation pick for Waite leaving, which would have canceled out the pick given up for Jones. This was the rationale behind what they did at trade week. Secondly Rogers didn't have a crystal ball and it would have been hard to know during trade week that the guy who was ranked 11th on his list would have still been available at 45. Maybe he did expect and that's why he was pissed off about no compensation for Waite. I would have to read through the book again, but it is commented that during the draft Rogers is surprised that he had crossed off so many names at the bottom of his list compared to the top of his list. I know we always hear after a draft that club A didn't expect player B to still be there and the book makes it seem that Rogers didn't expect Gore to last til 55 nor Smith to last til 60.

What's clear is that if any player was discounted in Rogers list, then they were discounted because they didn't fit the clubs identified needs (basically they weren't able to add any outside run to the team). In building the list, the idea was to go after inside mids in the 2013 draft, so that's why Cripps was so high on his list compared to others and 2014 was to draft for outside run. Roger's drafted for needs and his list reflected this.

 

[Azul]

not many people thought Laverde would get to pick 19 for example. Maybe we didn't do our due diligence on him?

with all the predraft hype, I'm astonished Goddard lasted 'til pick 20.

 

[astuart88]

Lamb, Goddard, Laverde. I think there were a few sliders in last years draft.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

If you want to reflect on life and football, check this out. I'm still teary eyed.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2015-08-28/when-jesse-met-the-blues

 

[Bluella]

So that was why we won...

 

[ShanDog]

Anyone else had a read of the GWS game writeup by on the club website / mobile app? Really scathing of Yarran and Menzel:

The Blues did have some experience on the field at Spotless Stadium but some of them were no more than spectators in the disappointing defeat.
Skilful duo Chris Yarran and Troy Menzel shared 13 possessions for the day and barely looked interested in contributing to the cause, let alone leading by example for their young teammates.

Can't remember the last time this sort of negative stuff was written about a player by our own club - or are these done by AFL reporters not associated with any particular team?

 

[HARKER]

Anyone else had a read of the GWS game writeup by on the club website / mobile app? Really scathing of Yarran and Menzel:
Can't remember the last time this sort of negative stuff was written about a player by our own club - or are these done by AFL reporters not associated with any particular team?

That makes for a terrible read....and an authorized read.

Still can't get past the question: Why don't some players play for us?
It's one thing making demands on people and it's another giving your employees the best environment to thrive in. Must change.

 

[ShanDog]

That makes for a terrible read....and an authorized read.

Still can't get past the question: Why don't some players play for us?
It's one thing making demands on people and it's another giving your employees the best environment to thrive in. Must change.

The wording of it makes me wonder if it isn't PR strategy - the club thinks Yarran and Menzel are gone and are softening the blow with reports like this. I know if I were in charge of media for a club, it's exactly the thing I would do if I knew deals were already sorted. But maybe that's giving them too much credit.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Some players obviously have a great environment to thrive in. If we had a whole team of passengers we might have a problem.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

Anyone else had a read of the GWS game writeup by on the club website / mobile app? Really scathing of Yarran and Menzel:



Can't remember the last time this sort of negative stuff was written about a player by our own club - or are these done by AFL reporters not associated with any particular team?

This is the article that appeared on the AFL website.

 

[ShanDog]

This is the article that appeared on the AFL website.

Any idea if its Carlton's media people who write them though?

 

[Mezzoculo]

Any idea if its Carlton's media people who write them though?

Barks was just as scathing in his weekly coaches address to members this week. Was very unhappy with some seniors players. Did everything except name names.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

New beginnings. Things are on the up.