News Carlton request Priority Pick - AFL Commission says NO - post #439

[13Beast]

Tough situation but all they can do is back in and support whoever replaces them, they all get replaced one way or another.

Maybe each state has their own draft going forward, might help retention rates....

Defo. Or just purely draft only QLD academy kids. Trade off all other superfluous draft picks for established players that flag their desire to come join us, and use those draft picks at the trade table. That would be risk mitigation in full effect right there

 

[GoBlues!]

Anyone have an actual date the AFL needs to give an answer to the request?

I think its around mid October but rest assured the AFL will be fully impartial in carefully considering all the merits of the request, taking into due consideration how the submission stacks up against the criteria factors of its priority pick system before entering the relevant data into its PP formula, and give the response:

 

[Go_Blues!]

Pointless conversation. Even in my wildest hypotheticals, I couldn't entertain the thought of going elsewhere without throwing up in my mouth a little.

Perhaps we could package ODN and Thy for their first rounder and perhaps a future pick?

 

[thylacine60]

I'm right here!

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Perhaps we could package ODN and Thy for their first rounder and perhaps a future pick?

If Thy or I were to leave, it would likely be because of the other. We're not sharing another forum's bus.

 

[SurreyBlue]

As embarrassing as this is for our club, we had no alternative. I would normally be in the 'stop embarrassing ourselves group' but this is our last chance to get it right and pure survival of the club we knew is at stake. We cannot and must not FAIL.

Couple of reasons why we raised this;
IMHO - we took this option because we might need to raise this option next year! We finish last with 4 or so wins again and we will be raising this again with much more justification.
2nd - as many have raised its the Brisbane redundancy. Simply needed to be highlighted that we not Brisbane finished last and we need just as much help as an interstate clubs.
3rd - the Kruezer compensation pick.

I'm keeping everything crossed that we get this rebuild right and more importantly build for a sustainable future were we do not find ourselves in this position ever again! Time for 'Carlton Mike' to lend his support and influence. Now is the time for him to show his colours because goodness knows he was never going to help us out of the Etihad deal.

 

[prisoner777]

Couple of reasons why we raised this;
IMHO - we took this option because we might need to raise this option next year! We finish last with 4 or so wins again and we will be raising this again with much more justification.
2nd - as many have raised its the Brisbane redundancy. Simply needed to be highlighted that we not Brisbane finished last and we need just as much help as an interstate clubs.
3rd - the Kruezer compensation pick.

I'm keeping everything crossed that we get this rebuild right and more importantly build for a sustainable future were we do not find ourselves in this position ever again! Time for 'Carlton Mike' to lend his support and influence. Now is the time for him to show his colours because goodness knows he was never going to help us out of the Etihad deal.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE="SurreyBlue, post: 40862598, member: 4066"]As embarrassing as this is for our club, we had no alternative. I would normally be in the 'stop embarrassing ourselves group' but this is our last chance to get it right and pure survival of the club we knew is at stake. We cannot and must not FAIL.

Carlton......a priority pick - FORGET IT!! Quite simply the club only has itself to blame for where it's at now. Poor list management/selection, two super coaches who bombed, stabbing Ratts in the back when he took us from the bottom of the ladder into the finals and a lack of strong culture in the club and playing group. Time for the club to do all the heavy lifting itself without outside help. We got ourselves into this mess, we need to get ourselves out of it!

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Couple of reasons why we raised this;
IMHO - we took this option because we might need to raise this option next year! We finish last with 4 or so wins again and we will be raising this again with much more justification.
2nd - as many have raised its the Brisbane redundancy. Simply needed to be highlighted that we not Brisbane finished last and we need just as much help as an interstate clubs.
3rd - the Kruezer compensation pick.

I'm keeping everything crossed that we get this rebuild right and more importantly build for a sustainable future were we do not find ourselves in this position ever again! Time for 'Carlton Mike' to lend his support and influence. Now is the time for him to show his colours because goodness knows he was never going to help us out of the Etihad deal.

As embarrassing as this is for our club, we had no alternative. I would normally be in the 'stop embarrassing ourselves group' but this is our last chance to get it right and pure survival of the club we knew is at stake. We cannot and must not FAIL.

Carlton......a priority pick - FORGET IT!! Quite simply the club only has itself to blame for where it's at now. Poor list management/selection, two super coaches who bombed, stabbing Ratts in the back when he took us from the bottom of the ladder into the finals and a lack of strong culture in the club and playing group. Time for the club to do all the heavy lifting itself without outside help. We got ourselves into this mess, we need to get ourselves out of it!

* I'm sick of hearing this. So when other clubs bottom out its someone else's fault but when it Carlton it all our fault. If they have a rule to award priority picks then we deserve it as much as anyone else.


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[Cringle]

**** I'm sick of hearing this. So when other clubs bottom out its someone else's fault but when it Carlton it all our fault. If they have a rule to award priority picks then we deserve it as much as anyone else.


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It's someone elses fault Brisbane have a bad culture!!!

 

[Blue__Balls]

It's someone elses fault Brisbane have a bad culture!!!

"If Brisbane don't get a priority pick this year, no Queensland team ever will."
- Paul Roos

 

[Carl Tone]

**** I'm sick of hearing this. So when other clubs bottom out its someone else's fault but when it Carlton it all our fault. If they have a rule to award priority picks then we deserve it as much as anyone else.

Exactly.

 

[prisoner777]

**** I'm sick of hearing this. So when other clubs bottom out its someone else's fault but when it Carlton it all our fault. If they have a rule to award priority picks then we deserve it as much as anyone else.


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Andy, we weren't saying when other clubs bottom out it's someone else's fault.....our sentiment is Carlton has had its opportunities and we stuffed up so we should man up and dig ourselves out of the hole. Having a 'we deserve it as much as others' mentality is not positive IMO. I want to see Carlton rebuilding the right way, not relying on handouts or priority picks.....we haven't handled these well in recent times.

 

[BluStreak]

we all have opinions on Carlton requesting a Priority Pick.
Whether it is a good move or not is no longer important as it has been done and can not be undone.

One thing it does say to me is that Carlton is embracing the draft and using everything at its disposal to maximize that embrace.
Carlton is not looking to buy its way out. Carlton is not looking for a Messiah to take them to the promise land.
They have shown by the way they have appointed a new staff member (coaching) and other appointments during the year that they have listened and are adjusting the way they go about their business.
I look forward to seeing further evidence of this new Carlton shining through.

 

[prisoner777]

we all have opinions on Carlton requesting a Priority Pick.
Whether it is a good move or not is no longer important as it has been done and can not be undone.

One thing it does say to me is that Carlton is embracing the draft and using everything at its disposal to maximize that embrace.
Carlton is not looking to buy its way out. Carlton is not looking for a Messiah to take them to the promise land.
They have shown by the way they have appointed a new staff member (coaching) and other appointments during the year that they have listened and are adjusting the way they go about their business.
I look forward to seeing further evidence of this new Carlton shining through.

BluStreak, nicely said!

 

[Styxx]

Yarran now quitting probably helps us more than not really.

Not only is our player exodus the same size generally it has ripped our best 22 to that of a mid table country footy team.

 

[Pafloyul]

**** I'm sick of hearing this. So when other clubs bottom out its someone else's fault but when it Carlton it all our fault. If they have a rule to award priority picks then we deserve it as much as anyone else.


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Exactly, I'm as critical of the club as the next (more so ) but this sort of smug self-loathing is hard to understand. It's the difference between pessimism and cynicism and it isn't as if we are breaking AFL rules by being rubbish. I can't help but think there's some subconscious agenda when people make those kinds of comments; we don't deserve it so we won't be upset if/when we don't get it, perhaps? Perish the thought if we do end up getting a PP; what do we do then... give it back!?

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Our footy club has made a lot of enemies amongst other clubs in the 70s, 80s and 90s, part of me wonders if we're paying the price now at Commission level.

Other clubs certainly won't be doing anything to help us with regards to PP discussion when then commission meets to discuss our request.

 

[Styxx]

Our footy club has made a lot of enemies amongst other clubs in the 70s, 80s and 90s, part of me wonders if we're paying the price now at Commission level.

Other clubs certainly won't be doing anything to help us with regards to PP discussion when then commission meets to discuss our request.

Facts are we are in worse position than Melbourne was last year. We are also legitimately string down the barrel of another wooden spoon, perhaps several in a row. We have lost our major sponsor and probably cannot get a sufficient replacement meaning more lost money, membership may dwindle to 40000 or less more lost money.

Of course we will get rejected. Their personal bias wants that.

I am completely and unashamedly cynical and pessimistic about the future here.

 

[thylacine60]

feel free - gonna be a tiresome trip having you around for the next 3 years but

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Tipping us to be near the bottom (possible bottom) again next year. So if we dont get priority pick this year maybe next year.

We have the worst forward line in the league there is simple nothing there at all!!!

 

[thylacine60]

IAC, is some sort of problem you have following the club? You continue to post either the bleeding obvious or ultra-negative tripe. Do you need a hug or a team change?

 

[RAPPA]

Facts are we are in worse position than Melbourne was last year. We are also legitimately string down the barrel of another wooden spoon, perhaps several in a row. We have lost our major sponsor and probably cannot get a sufficient replacement meaning more lost money, membership may dwindle to 40000 or less more lost money.

Of course we will get rejected. Their personal bias wants that.

I am completely and unashamedly cynical and pessimistic about the future here.

Since when did the brown paper bag pull out?

 

[gbatman]

Our demise is not all our doing. Here is how the AFL have contributed and what I would be putting forward as an argument as to why we should receive compensation.

Draft Penalties. We were penalised the following picks:
1, 2, 31 and 34 in the 2002 draft, all draft picks in the 2003 Preseason Draft, first and second round draft picks in the 2003 draft.
Yes we brought this on ourselves by breaching the salary cap but we were made an example of and over penalised, particularly for a team in the position we were in. The penalty was more than draft picks and a massive financial wack. The penalty was that we would be terrible for a decade which brought about an enormous amount of lost revenue and diminished supporter base. This is why the punishment did not fit the crime. The punishment may also not stand up in court if it's ever challenged either.

Getting nothing for losing two free agents. We lost Waite who has had a fairly good season for North Melbourne and we received no compensation. We lost Betts and received no compensation as we picked Thomas up in the draft. Since Thomas has hardly played and not played well, it would be fair to say we got nothing for him and have gone the last two seasons uncompensated.

Compromised drafts. The AFL brought in two new AFL sides right in the heart of our rebuild. Right when we were on the up and getting lower picks despite requiring top end talent. Right in the tricky stage that would be the difference between us potentially rising to a top 4 side or bottoming out. Granted our drafting has also been poor but we would have had a far better opportunity to get things right had it not been for GWS and GCS having a bucket load of picks before us. Where this really hurts is with the Jacobs trade. We lost a good ruckman for nothing, granted we could have picked Parker with the pick we got but the list of good players available had GCS' not come in would have been much longer. It would have made it a fair trade. I think the impact of these clubs coming in, particularly the timing, has had a massive effect on us, similar in some ways to the draft penalties we received and we are not the only club who have copped a whack from this.

The AFL have brought in changes to the Father Son rule that will make it harder for clubs to bring in quality father sons. Seems all good and fair but again the timing affects us more than other sides if you look over the last 10 years and next 5 potentially. We are being put at an unfair disadvantage compared to clubs over the previous 10 seasons who have had access to quality father son picks.

If the AFL don't deliver a band one compensation for Kreuzer this is just another example of the AFL contributing to where we are.


Why we should qualify for compensation
- We are the worst side in the competition with only 4 wins.
- We have suffered at the hands of the AFL and the decisions they have made and the timing in which things were implemented. Perhaps far greater than most, if not all other clubs. The AFL have implemented programs that have negatively affected our efforts to have a quality list greater than some other clubs.
- Some of the AFL's recent changes, like the father son rule, could bring about an unfair disadvantage to us in comparison with sides over the last 10 years.
- We have lost a lot of quality players for nothing. Not just free agents Betts and Waite but Garlett who was traded for a worthless pick, Mitch Robinson and Jeremy Laidler who are all playing decent football.
- We are losing Henderson and Yarran for, at this stage unknown quantity, most likely unknown youth. Bell and Kreuzer could potentially be gone and possibly more. Judd and Carrazzo have retired. Not only are we the last placed team in the AFL but we will lose 4-6, maybe more players who are in our best 22. This makes 8-10 best 22 players gone for nothing in 3 years.
- Not only are we worse than Brisbane but we can argue we have been more unfortunate than them as they have generally not lost good players for nothing.
- We need more than the standard issue draft picks and what we may receive in trades and compensation to be competitive and rebuild within a reasonable timeframe.
- In 14 seasons: Last - 4 times, Bottom 4 - 6 times, Top 8 - 3 times + finals by default, 2 finals wins, not top 4 since 2000.
- The current state of our list is exceptionally poor.

We more than have grounds to apply for a priority pick. Just how much worse do we have to get? How long do we have to be really bad before the AFL decide that they are going to throw us pick?

 

[agro]

Our demise is not all our doing. Here is how the AFL have contributed and what I would be putting forward as an argument as to why we should receive compensation.

Draft Penalties. We were penalised the following picks:
1, 2, 31 and 34 in the 2002 draft, all draft picks in the 2003 Preseason Draft, first and second round draft picks in the 2003 draft.
Yes we brought this on ourselves by breaching the salary cap but we were made an example of and over penalised, particularly for a team in the position we were in. The penalty was more than draft picks and a massive financial wack. The penalty was that we would be terrible for a decade which brought about an enormous amount of lost revenue and diminished supporter base. This is why the punishment did not fit the crime. The punishment may also not stand up in court if it's ever challenged either.

Getting nothing for losing two free agents. We lost Waite who has had a fairly good season for North Melbourne and we received no compensation. We lost Betts and received no compensation as we picked Thomas up in the draft. Since Thomas has hardly played and not played well, it would be fair to say we got nothing for him and have gone the last two seasons uncompensated.

Compromised drafts. The AFL brought in two new AFL sides right in the heart of our rebuild. Right when we were on the up and getting lower picks despite requiring top end talent. Right in the tricky stage that would be the difference between us potentially rising to a top 4 side or bottoming out. Granted our drafting has also been poor but we would have had a far better opportunity to get things right had it not been for GWS and GCS having a bucket load of picks before us. Where this really hurts is with the Jacobs trade. We lost a good ruckman for nothing, granted we could have picked Parker with the pick we got but the list of good players available had GCS' not come in would have been much longer. It would have made it a fair trade. I think the impact of these clubs coming in, particularly the timing, has had a massive effect on us, similar in some ways to the draft penalties we received and we are not the only club who have copped a whack from this.

The AFL have brought in changes to the Father Son rule that will make it harder for clubs to bring in quality father sons. Seems all good and fair but again the timing affects us more than other sides if you look over the last 10 years and next 5 potentially. We are being put at an unfair disadvantage compared to clubs over the previous 10 seasons who have had access to quality father son picks.

If the AFL don't deliver a band one compensation for Kreuzer this is just another example of the AFL contributing to where we are.


Why we should qualify for compensation
- We are the worst side in the competition with only 4 wins.
- We have suffered at the hands of the AFL and the decisions they have made and the timing in which things were implemented. Perhaps far greater than most, if not all other clubs. The AFL have implemented programs that have negatively affected our efforts to have a quality list greater than some other clubs.
- Some of the AFL's recent changes, like the father son rule, could bring about an unfair disadvantage to us in comparison with sides over the last 10 years.
- We have lost a lot of quality players for nothing. Not just free agents Betts and Waite but Garlett who was traded for a worthless pick, Mitch Robinson and Jeremy Laidler who are all playing decent football.
- We are losing Henderson and Yarran for, at this stage unknown quantity, most likely unknown youth. Bell and Kreuzer could potentially be gone and possibly more. Judd and Carrazzo have retired. Not only are we the last placed team in the AFL but we will lose 4-6, maybe more players who are in our best 22. This makes 8-10 best 22 players gone for nothing in 3 years.
- Not only are we worse than Brisbane but we can argue we have been more unfortunate than them as they have generally not lost good players for nothing.
- We need more than the standard issue draft picks and what we may receive in trades and compensation to be competitive and rebuild within a reasonable timeframe.
- In 14 seasons: Last - 4 times, Bottom 4 - 6 times, Top 8 - 3 times + finals by default, 2 finals wins, not top 4 since 2000.
- The current state of our list is exceptionally poor.

We more than have grounds to apply for a priority pick. Just how much worse do we have to get? How long do we have to be really bad before the AFL decide that they are going to throw us pick?

You forgot about the AFL's additional "Draft penalty by stealth" we copped in 2006, where they changed the criteria for qualifying for a Priorty pick right in the middle of when we were qualifying for it, meaning they gave us pick 17 instead of pick 3.

This was a was a disgrace and cost us a shot at Joel Selwood.

 

[gbatman]

You forgot about the AFL's additional "Draft penalty by stealth" we copped in 2006, where they changed the criteria for qualifying for a Priorty pick right in the middle of when we were qualifying for it, meaning they gave us pick 17 instead of pick 3.

This was a was a disgrace and cost us a shot at Joel Selwood.

Great pick up, another one to the list, AFL quickly changing the rules right before something is about to benefit us despite a heap of other clubs coming off the back of taking advantage.