Champion Data rate Schache above Weitering as the best in the open draft

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May 16, 2013
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Some interesting results from Champion Data's top 30 - Schache over Weitering being one of them.

From Fox Footy...

1. Jacob Hopper (NSW-ACT, North Ballarat Rebels, GWS academy)

A tough, classy midfielder with a ready-made AFL frame, a big presence around stoppages and the ability to hit scoreboard. As NSW-ACT Rams skipper, Hopper starred during this year’s Under 18 national championships, averaging 27 disposals, 16 contested possessions, six inside 50s, nine clearances, one goal and 157 SuperCoach points over three games.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Arguably the most complete player of the draft. Melbourne or Essendon are likely to bid on Hopper between the third and fifth picks. But the Giants will have no hesitations matching the bid by using the array of mid-draft selections they accumulated during October’s exchange period.

2. Callum Mills (NSW-ACT, Sydney academy)

Still very highly rated despite missing most of the 2015 season due to shin and foot injuries, the in-and-under midfielder can extract the ball cleanly by either hand or foot. He was crowned an under 18s All-Australian in 2014 after averaging 21 disposals in the championships

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Twelve months earlier, he was the like No. 1 pick. Like Hopper, should cop a bid from the Dees or Dons within the first five picks, probably as early as pick No. 3. The Swans have ample picks up their sleeve and will match the bid.

3. Josh Schache (Vic Country, Murray Bushrangers)

A star forward who has excellent size, power and marking ability. He won the Larke Medal this year as the best player in Division 1, booting a record 24 goals from six games for Vic Country.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Think Travis Cloke — but a much better and more accurate kick for goal. Brisbane, which is desperately in need of a tall forward, will snap him up with pick No. 2.






4. Jacob Weitering (Vic Country, Dandenong Stingrays)

An excellent intercept defender who can play both loose or one-on-one. Had a brilliant year for the Stingrays in the TAC Cup, averaging 19 disposals, eight marks (four intercept), five rebound 50s and 118 SuperCoach points.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Don’t let these rankings turn you off. Blues are certainties to select him with pick No. 1.

5. Darcy Parish (Vic Country, Geelong Falcons)

Has electric pace, great strength for his size and a real knack for accumulating the footy. He averaged 22 disposals in the national championships and 28 in the TAC Cup this season.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: The most in-demand midfielder of this year’s draft class outside of the academy prospects. When Melbourne — a team desperate for outside run — traded with Gold Coast to acquire pick No. 3, our ears pricked up. Dees the favourite, but if they look elsewhere, Dons will snap him up.

6. Aaron Francis (South Australia, West Adelaide)

A genuine utility at 191cm and 92kg who’s just as comfortable playing at either end of the ground. In defence he’s an excellent intercept player with great game sense, highlighted by his 11 intercept marks for SA in this year’s national championships. Up forward, he just knows where the goals are.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Could slip down the order a little, despite his talent, making him a potential bargain pick. Don’t be surprised to see the Gold Coast Suns pounce on him with pick No. 6 after early academy bidding.

7. Ben Keays (Queensland, Redlands, Brisbane academy)

A strong, inside midfielder who starred for his state and averaged 29 disposals and 162 SuperCoach points in this year’s under 18 national carnival. Could be a future captain, too.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Likely to be Brisbane’s second academy selection and third overall pick in the draft, after taking Josh Schache with pick No. 2 and Eric Hipwood with its first academy selection.

8. Ryan Burton (South Australia, North Adelaide)

An athletic key forward at 191cm who leads well and has an accurate set-shot for goal.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Would’ve been a top-five prospect if he hadn’t have broken his leg. With pick No. 13, the Crows would love to keep him in South Australia. But will he last that long? Carlton (pick No. 8) might pounce.

9. Matthew Kennedy (NSW-ACT, Collingullie-GP, GWS academy)


One of the best and toughest midfielders of this year’s draft class. A bull at stoppages, yet uses his 187cm frame to take contested marks around the ground. Can also push forward and impact the scoreboard.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Hopper will be the Giants’ first academy pick, but they won’t hesitate matching a rival club’s bid — likely within the first 10 picks — on Kennedy.

10. Eric Hipwood (Queensland, Aspley, Brisbane academy)

Incredibly athletic for a man who stands 202cm, the academy prospect can play either back or forward. Won All-Australian honours for his carnival campaign, kicking four goals and averaging 21 disposals and seven marks from three games.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Will be the first Lions academy player — and probably the fourth overall after Mills, Hopper and Kennedy — to attract a bid from a rival club. Lions will match.

11. Charlie Curnow (Vic Country, Geelong Falcons)

Forward or back, midfield or ruck, the brother of Carlton’s Ed Curnow is one of the most versatile players in the draft, but probably plays his best footy forward. Possesses excellent overhead marking ability and is an accurate kick for goal.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Won’t last long, with Essendon eyeing him off with either pick No. 4 or No. 5.

12. Rhys Mathieson (Vic Country, Geelong Falcons)

Of all the midfielders of this year’s draft class, the tough, inside on-baller with clean hands could be the most ready-made for the AFL environment. A footy nut who’s always watching games, the contested ball animal averaged 20 disposals and five clearances per game in the this year’s carnival.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Could be a bargain as a late first-round selection. Before academy selections, could land somewhere between pick No. 11 (Carlton) and 14 (St Kilda) — the Saints could do with him the most.

13. Jade Gresham (Vic Metro, Northern Knights)

An explosive, inside midfielder and prolific ball magnet who couldn’t have done much more in 2015 to enhance his prospects. He starred in the TAC Cup (averaged 29 disposals and kicked 15 goals), national championships (23 disposals and five clearances) and draft combine (top-10 finishes in the clean hands and kicking tests).

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Recruiters won’t be put off by his height (178cm), but hard to put a finger on exactly where he’ll selected. Could go as early as pick No. 10 (Carlton) or as late as pick No. 25 (Essendon)

14. Sam Weideman (Vic Metro, Eastern Ranges)

His 2015 campaign was hampered by an ankle stress fracture, but that hasn’t stopped the tall forward from slipping out of top-10 contention. The grandson of Collingwood legend Murray Weideman is a good contested mark and has an accurate set-shot kick for goal.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Won’t be available after Melbourne’s second pick (selection No. 7). Bombers considering him, but will they choose fellow tall forward Curnow too?

15. Kieran Lovell (Tasmania, Kingston Tigers)

Height is no barrier for the 174cm midfielder, who has racked up incredible numbers at both TAC Cup (averaged 34 disposals) and national carnival (35 disposals) levels this season. He’s a tough tackler, natural ball magnet and clearance machine.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Not a first-round pick, according to AFL clubs, but should find a home at sometime during the second round (between picks 25-40).

16. Mitch Hibberd (Tasmania, Clarence)

A versatile 19-year-old half-back that looms as Tasmania’s best draft prospect, despite Lovell’s incredible numbers this year. With great athleticism and footy smarts, he averaged 24 disposals in both the TAC Cup and national championships this year.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Could sneak into the first round, but more likely to land at the Western Bulldogs with one of the club’s first two selections (No. 20 and 21) in the second round.

17. Ryan Clarke (Vic Metro, Eastern Ranges)

The fit, hard-working on-baller had an impressive back-end to the TAC Cup season, which included hauls of 45, 42 and 30 disposals — as well as three goals — in the space of three games.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: One of the bolters of this year’s draft bolters that could be picked up late in the first round, or early second round. The Blues may look at him with their end of round one compensation pick, as would the Bulldogs in the second round.

18. Clayton Oliver (Vic Country, Murray Bushrangers)

A gun midfielder who won the Morrish medal as the best TAC Cup player for the season. He finished the year with an average of 24 disposals and 135 SuperCoach points, as well as a total of 20 goals, from 16 games.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Bolted into first-round selection thanks to a scintillating finish to his TAC Cup season. The Blues have reportedly flagged interest in the midfielder and could use one of their middle first-round selections (either pick No. 8 or 11) to nab him.

19. Riley Bonner (South Australia, West Adelaide)

Your quintessential rebounding defender who possesses an accurate left-foot kick but can also play on a small or tall opponent. Won All-Australian honours thanks to his excellent under 18 carnival campaign.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: If fellow South Australians Francis, Burton and Wayne Milera are all gone by pick No. 13, the Crows could land the boy from West Adelaide. If not, the Hawks might like to add another classy left-footer to their list with either pick No. 15 or 18.

20. Harley Balic (Vic Metro, Sandringham Dragons)

A talented junior basketballer who ultimately chose football, the half-forward/midfielder averaged 23 disposals per game in the TAC Cup and 22 touches in the national championships. However a question mark over his kicking efficiency still lingers.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Solid overhead mark for a midfielder who knows where the goals are. Should land at an AFL club before the end of the first round, with Richmond (pick No. 12) and St Kilda (pick No. 14) in the box seat.

21. Wayne Milera (South Australia, Central Districts)

A classy outside player who could play as either a running half-back or elusive crumbing forward. His five-goal, 24-disposal haul against Glenelg in the SANFL, as well as his impressive time in the 30m sprint test at the draft combine, has seen him rocket into early first-round contention.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: The Crows had the second-worst kicking efficiency of any team this year at just 63 per cent, so they’ll have their eyes on the classy ball-user with pick No. 9.

22. Ben Crocker (Vic Metro, Oakleigh Chargers)

A competitive half-forward with great hands that can also play through midfield. He kicked 23 goals and averaged 19 disposals and 113 SuperCoach points from 14 TAC Cup games this year.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Earliest he’ll go is early second round, but don’t be surprised to see him slip to the third round either.

23. Luke Partington (South Australia, Norwood)

South Australia’s top ball magnet for 2015 who can find the footy in both contested and uncontested situations. A quick yet durable on-baller who averaged 24 disposals and 102 SuperCoach points per game during the national championships this season.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Looms as a handy second-round selection. Might suit Port Adelaide at pick No. 32, which would keep him in South Australia.

24. Callum Ah Chee (Western Australia, South Fremantle)

Clearly WA’s best prospect of this season’s draft class who can change games in an instant and often plays above his height of 182cm. A quick and agile small forward, he featured in both the under 18 carnival and WAFL seniors this year, booting five goals from six games in each competition.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Was touted as a possible top-10 pick early, but that talk faded as the season progressed. Still a strong chance to go in the first round, potentially to Gold Coast at pick No. 20.

25. Darcy Tucker (Vic Country, North Ballarat Rebels)

Your quintessential running defender that has pace, elite endurance, composure and a damaging left-foot kick. Showed solid consistency in both the TAC Cup and national carnival this year, averaging 23 and 19 disposals in the two respective competitions.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Probably slid down the order slightly as the season progressed but still expect him to be selected within the first round. Hawthorn (pick No. 15 or 18) or North Melbourne (pick No. 17) could be suitors.

26. Daniel Rioli (Northern Territory, North Ballarat Rebels)

The cousin of Hawthorn star Cyril Rioli booted 14 goals from nine games in the TAC Cup this year. But it was at the draft combine where he truly announced himself, winning the repeat 30m sprint test and finishing inside the top five in the 20m sprint, clean hands and vertical jump tests. He also finished with an impressive beep test time of 14.6.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: The Tigers desperately need a small, elusive forward. Could they use their first selection (pick No. 12) on Rioli? If not, should go early in the second round.

27. Bailey Rice (Vic Country, Dandenong Stingrays)

The son of former Carlton and St Kilda player Dean Rice had a consistent season at all levels in 2015. An excellent rebounding defender, he averaged 21 disposals at 73 per cent efficiency and five rebound 50s per game during the TAC Cup season, while he quickly adapted to the physicality of VFL level during his two games with the Northern Blues.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Nominated St Kilda as his first preference under the revised father-son bidding system, meaning the Saints will have first dibs on him when a bid comes. If the Saints, however, don’t match the bid, Carlton is then given the opportunity. But the Saints should nab him in the second round.

28. Brayden Fiorini (Vic Metro, Northern Knights)

A ball magnet and effective ball user that racked up big numbers during 2015. The versatile midfielder, who could also play down back if need be, averaged 32 disposals in the TAC Cup and kicked multiple goals in three of last four games

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Could be a late bolter and sneak into the first round, but could also go as late as pick No. 27 where Collingwood would welcome him in with open arms.

29. Kieran Collins (Vic Country, Dandenong Stingrays)

A lockdown, ready-made full-back at 193cm and 94kg, however he’s worked hard to improve the offensive aspects of his game this season. Averaged four spoils per game for the Stingrays, while he showed off his attacking improvement at the carnival with an average of five rebound 50s.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: The most improved under 18 player in the country, such has been his rapid progress in 2015. Hawthorn (pick No. 15 or 18) could be on the lookout to replace Brian Lake.

30. Josh Dunkley (Vic Country, Gippsland Power)

The son of Sydney champion Andrew Dunkley is an inside midfielder who wins most of his disposals in a contested situation and has good overhead marking ability. Played well for the Power in 2015, averaging 19 disposals, six tackles, four clearances and 101 SuperCoach points.

FOX FOOTY SAYS: Set to shun the Swans and not nominate as a father-son prospect, meaning he could land at any club. Now likely to be picked up during the early stages of the second round, with Essendon looming with picks No. 24 and 25.
 

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As for the title and other observations.

1. Weitering is the rightful number 1 pick. He'll be the fulcrum of Carlton's defense for a decade and a very important player and impact heavily given they will likely import Hawthorn's zone defense.

2. Schache kicked a record amount of goals and is very very good, but the numbers really favour him a bit.

3. Only 1 Victorian TAC cup midfielder in the top 10 (Parish) probably accounts for the weakness at the top and in the depth of this draft

4. The counter to that is there's some decent talls in the first round and deeper
 
Really hoping the Dees go on a bid frenzy.

The problem is that if they want a mid at pick 3 they may be better to pick their man (Parish?) and say to him they rate him higher... Would be werid for Parish if they went:

Pick 3: Hopper Bid (Gws matched)
Pick 4: Mills Bid (Swans matched)
Pick 5: Kennedy Bid (GWS Matched)
Pick 6: Keays bid.... na fcuk it...Parish you will do

More likely is they will bid on one to keep AFL off their back as they are suppose to give a crap about making academy clubs honest
 
The problem is that if they want a mid at pick 3 they may be better to pick their man (Parish?) and say to him they rate him higher... Would be werid for Parish if they went:

Pick 3: Hopper Bid (Gws matched)
Pick 4: Mills Bid (Swans matched)
Pick 5: Kennedy Bid (GWS Matched)
Pick 6: Keays bid.... na fcuk it...Parish you will do

More likely is they will bid on one to keep AFL off their back as they are suppose to give a crap about making academy clubs honest

I think they will just go best available. Selecting the best available (and making clubs pay full price) is more important to pandering to the ego of an 18 year old.
 

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But why piss off 3 potential trading partners? It will just make it harder for Melbourne to do business with Sydney, GWS and Brisbane in the future.

Why not bid on the best available player?

A bit silly if a team is pissed off at another team selecting the best available player.
 
As for the title and other observations.

1. Weitering is the rightful number 1 pick. He'll be the fulcrum of Carlton's defense for a decade and a very important player and impact heavily given they will likely import Hawthorn's zone defense.

2. Schache kicked a record amount of goals and is very very good, but the numbers really favour him a bit.

3. Only 1 Victorian TAC cup midfielder in the top 10 (Parish) probably accounts for the weakness at the top and in the depth of this draft

4. The counter to that is there's some decent talls in the first round and deeper

How can the numbers "favour him"? That's the great thing about numbers, they are what they are. They're never inaccurate.

Also I could just as easily say: "Schache is the rightful number 1 pick. He would be the fulcrum of Carlton's forward line for a decade and a very important player and impact heavily given they will likely import Hawthorn's forward structure."

On the count of three, everyone make TwentyNine happy by saying:

"Carlton aren't getting a standout No1 Pick"

Mate, I'm always just happy not to be a Blues fan :thumbsu: there's no need to go to any further trouble, really.
 
On the count of three, everyone make TwentyNine happy by saying:

"Carlton aren't getting a standout No1 Pick"

I really like that the top 2 clubs in the draft will both be getting their number 1 choice. If Brisbane had pick 1 and Carlton pick 2 they would both be getting the same players. Defenders like Weitering are a lot more prized than they used to be as not only do they stop the opposition scoring but they also setup a lot of attacks from defence and these days that can be a very important weapon.
 
I know this will upset TwentyNine but in the accompanying article to the Champion Data stats List on the Hun site was this:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...k/news-story/d0b627598f72adaa8259348a9478ccc7


One AFL recruiter said: “Super player, super character. He can win a game for you or save a game for you — a clear No.1 pick.”

An AFL coach who watched Weitering’s TAC Cup preliminary final declared him a generational player while recruiters have dubbed him the complete package.

“Intelligent, articulate and he’s a player who will lead team defence at AFL level and quickly,” another scout said.

AFL academy coach Brenton Sanderson says Weitering is a “no-brainer” for the No.1 pick, comparing his clean marking to Stewart Loewe.

And his peers agree. A Herald Sun survey of top prospects at the draft combine all said they would take Weitering at No. 1, largely owing to his versatility.

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Now, while i and others don't think the sun shines out of his backside, it is fair to say the Industry have been saying Weitering is a standout No1 Pick. Which for some reason TwentyNine has taken offence to and seen as proof that Carlton are still relying on a messiah complex because they hold No1 Pick and seem pleased to be able to get him.

Notice too, TwentyNine, that an AFL Coach used the dreaded term "Generational player".
 
Numbers mean very little if they have Burton at eight and Curnow at 11. Former hasn't played a game this year.

They keep numbers from every game these guys play down to the under 16s, so they have plenty of data to base their opinion of guys like Burton on.

It's about time we had a thread that criticised Carlton and was negative about it's recruits

Worth noting that the title and the OP have no mention of Carlton at all - it's just a thread about Champion Data's rankings.

I know this will upset TwentyNine but in the accompanying article to the Champion Data stats List on the Hun site was this:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...k/news-story/d0b627598f72adaa8259348a9478ccc7


One AFL recruiter said: “Super player, super character. He can win a game for you or save a game for you — a clear No.1 pick.”

An AFL coach who watched Weitering’s TAC Cup preliminary final declared him a generational player while recruiters have dubbed him the complete package.

“Intelligent, articulate and he’s a player who will lead team defence at AFL level and quickly,” another scout said.

AFL academy coach Brenton Sanderson says Weitering is a “no-brainer” for the No.1 pick, comparing his clean marking to Stewart Loewe.

And his peers agree. A Herald Sun survey of top prospects at the draft combine all said they would take Weitering at No. 1, largely owing to his versatility.

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Now, while i and others don't think the sun shines out of his backside, it is fair to say the Industry have been saying Weitering is a standout No1 Pick. Which for some reason TwentyNine has taken offence to and seen as proof that Carlton are still relying on a messiah complex because they hold No1 Pick and seem pleased to be able to get him.

Notice too, TwentyNine, that an AFL Coach used the dreaded term "Generational player".

Cool story mate. All I have ever done is give my opinion because it's my opinion.

I found it interesting that Champion Data actually looked at the numbers and said Schache's better, it's the most interesting aspect of their top 30, so I started a topic on it.

Most other opinions get formed on media hype, I like that when an expert statistics company dedicated to AFL analysis took an honest objective look at the numbers, they came up with the same conclusion I already have.

In the end though I just have an opinion and I'm sharing it - on a football opinion-sharing website, what a crime. You'll have to find some way to live with that. Or you can just keep rabidly attacking posters for having their own opinions. It's up to you.
 
They keep numbers from every game these guys play down to the under 16s, so they have plenty of data to base their opinion of guys like Burton on.



Worth noting that the title and the OP have no mention of Carlton at all - it's just a thread about Champion Data's rankings.



Cool story mate. All I have ever done is give my opinion because it's my opinion.

I found it interesting that Champion Data actually looked at the numbers and said Schache's better, it's the most interesting aspect of their top 30, so I started a topic on it.

Most other opinions get formed on media hype, I like that when an expert statistics company dedicated to AFL analysis took an honest objective look at the numbers, they came up with the same conclusion I already have.

In the end though I just have an opinion and I'm sharing it - on a football opinion-sharing website, what a crime. You'll have to find some way to live with that. Or you can just keep rabidly attacking posters for having their own opinions. It's up to you.

I'm countering (not attacking) your opinion, with widespread, almost unerversal, Industry opinion.

The only "attack" is in response to your assertion that Carlton fans being happy with the rating put on Weitering is "proof that Carlton still have a Messiah complex". Which is what you asserted the other night in an attempt to hold up your argument.
 

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