Unofficial Preview Changes/prematch discussion vs Hawthorn (Out: Frog/In: JMac)

[ozzyoslo]

McCartney dropped him last year.

Ive noticed media people have never spoken ill of Macca since he got the arse.

 

[Dirty_11]

So Wells comes back via the 2's. Surely Kanye has enough "credits" after finals last year.

Nokia Cockatoo lulz at Atley being good 1v1

It was a jaw dropper that one. It was the first time I had seen Atley out marked so easily. Tightened up after that.

 

[Kanga1996]

Basti or Jacobs would be stiff. I'd consider Spud to make way for JMac. More like for like. Won't happen though.

Very surprised to see Spuds name mention, performed better than most are giving him credit for on the weekend.

 

[Ocha905]

Jacobs > Macmillan at this point in time

Just looked up McMillans career statistics and it's fairly vanilla. Highest ever possessions- 26 (against Melbourne in 2013) and tackles- 5 achieved just 3 times and a career average of 4 contested possessions stood out the most in terms of being underwhelming.

I get he is part of the leadership group so highly rated internally which is obviously what counts and a backline general of sorts but in terms of pure on-field production I don't see him as an automatic inclusion when he is fit. His biggest strength is probably winning/halving contests at an elite level which would be useful this week against the Hawks lethal midsized forwards.

When my gf and I went to the football for the first two years I always asked her who number 34 was and she couldnt remember his name. Even this year when we went to the Adelaide game she asked 'Who was that?' when McMillan did something in the first quarter. His anonymity to her has become an injoke.

My point is that it he seems a solid player with good leadership qualities and intangibles but one with a low ceiling and lack of elite attributes. The other players in his position like Atley, Wright, McDonald and even Jacobs recently have better potential long term IMO. It makes for plenty of selection dilemmas ahead.

 

[HBFlanker]

Just looked up McMillans career statistics and it's fairly vanilla. Highest ever possessions- 26 (against Melbourne in 2013) and tackles- 5 achieved just 3 times and a career average of 4 contested possessions stood out the most in terms of being underwhelming.

I get he is part of the leadership group so highly rated internally which is obviously what counts and a backline general of sorts but in terms of pure on-field production I don't see him as an automatic inclusion when he is fit. His biggest strength is probably winning/halving contests at an elite level which would be useful this week against the Hawks lethal midsized forwards.

When my gf and I went to the football for the first two years I always asked her who number 34 was and she couldnt remember his name. Even this year when we went to the Adelaide game she asked 'Who was that?' when McMillan did something in the first quarter. His anonymity to her has become an injoke.

My point is that it he seems a solid player with good leadership qualities and intangibles but one with a low ceiling and lack of elite attributes. The other players in his position like Atley, Wright, McDonald and even Jacobs recently have better potential long term IMO. It makes for plenty of selection dilemmas ahead.

fair points throughout. In my opinion Atley is a non negotiable through his ability to break the lines. At this point in time i just feel Jacobs is in good nick and Macmillan shouldnt come over the top of him for that very reason.

 

[HBFlanker]

Very surprised to see Spuds name mention, performed better than most are giving him credit for on the weekend.

Thought he was fantastic!

 

[Jaeger]

Wow, I can't believe I've just read almost 13 pages about Sam Gibson.

Reckon you'll knock us off on Saturday. We don't have suitable match ups for Petrie, Waite and Brown, you're our bogey side and you play Etihad better than anyone. I think the way you play troubles us, and if not for Cyril you would have probably won both games in 2013 too.

I'm not saying we can't win but I think you should be favourites. In saying that we tend to bounce back strongly after a loss. Our games are usually tight and I expect this to be no different.

 

[Deadeyeroo]

If Gibson survives this week we should use Gibbo to tag Mitchell to quell his influence from the backline, and if Mitchells thrown in the middle leave him on him.

 

[Phillyroo]

Spud is not getting dropped. Wright is not getting dropped. Thompson is not getting dropped. Tarrant is not getting dropped. Atley aint getting dropped either. Hansen is a cert when it comes back.
LMac, MacMillan and Jacobs are fighting it out and Benny is ahead right now.

You think Ben Jacobs is ahead of Luke????
Really?

 

[niko11]

Wow, I can't believe I've just read almost 13 pages about Sam Gibson.

Reckon you'll knock us off on Saturday. We don't have suitable match ups for Petrie, Waite and Brown, you're our bogey side and you play Etihad better than anyone. I think the way you play troubles us, and if not for Cyril you would have probably won both games in 2013 too.

I'm not saying we can't win but I think you should be favourites. In saying that we tend to bounce back strongly after a loss. Our games are usually tight and I expect this to be no different.

If i was in ur position i'd still be celebrating the last few premierships in saying that lucky u have an Ex North player as ur coach lol..
Should be a good game u have two KPB out and a few more we might have a 3-4 players out of our best 22..
But good teams have depth and the 22 that go out there should no whats required may the best team win....

 

[GarnerSmash]

I've moved 46 posts related to the merits of Sam Gibson as an AFL footballer into his player thread. Lets leave em there.

 

[FAILTOSUCCEED]

I'd still have Thommo as our best one on one defender - plays on all types of players (when not being wasted as a spare man). Grima rarely gets beaten also but he is nearly at the end.

Atley gets a similar type of role most weeks and is doing his defensive job very well I agree.

We could use plenty of his line breaking against the Hawks also no doubt

Grima gets beaten a lot mate.

EDIT: Agree around Thompsons versatility, but he can at times get monstered by the big fellas... IE> Hawkins.

Atley, whilst he does gets consistent defensive jobs, 90% of the time beats his man 1 on 1, that's a commodity in itself.

Grima, totally disagree with you.

 

[Flawed Genius]

You think Ben Jacobs is ahead of Luke????
Really?

He is.

 

[Phillyroo]

He is.

I disagree... Luke has never missed a game for form, only twice missing with soreness. Luke is rarely beaten, and was a shining light last year. He is far better then Ben imo. In saying that Ben took his opportunity last week, however if it came down to a choice between the two this week and both were fit, the coach would pick Luke, and I would agree with that choice.

 

[Saintly31]

Grima gets beaten a lot mate.

EDIT: Agree around Thompsons versatility, but he can at times get monstered by the big fellas... IE> Hawkins.

Atley, whilst he does gets consistent defensive jobs, 90% of the time beats his man 1 on 1, that's a commodity in itself.

Grima, totally disagree with you.

Grima when fully fit is rarely beaten (as in big goal hauls, not just a couple/few) by his direct opponent. Thommo nearly always beats his opponent other than on the 'gun/gorilla' forwards (as does Grima, as would Atley, as would 99% of other defenders)

However if you think Atley is a our best one on one defender, no worries. I don't think he has been tested enough on gun fwds of multiple sizes to make that call yet but again, no probs.

Be interesting who he takes this week.

 

[FAILTOSUCCEED]

Grima when fully fit is rarely beaten (as in big goal hauls, not just a couple/few) by his direct opponent. Thommo nearly always beats his opponent other than on the 'gun/gorilla' forwards (as does Grima, as would Atley, as would 99% of other defenders)

However if you think Atley is a our best one on one defender, no worries. I don't think he has been tested enough on gun fwds of multiple sizes to make that call yet but again, no probs.

Atley will never play on a huge range of sized forwards, because he is too small to play on talls...
He plays on smalls or mediums, rotates between.

 

[Saintly31]

Atley will never play on a huge range of sized forwards, because he is too small to play on talls...
He plays on smalls or mediums, rotates between.

That's the entire point I'm making, I know he hasn't and won't.

Thommo can be found out on the really big guys, but has been forced to play on them due to lack of options. Spud/Grima likewise. They haven't been suitable match ups, but been forced to do them and have held up remarkably well quite often.

Anyway, regardless of who is best or whatever Thommo and Atley have the ability to be gun defenders with dangerous rebound. We can agree on that!

 

[kangaspurs]

LMac was our best small defender in the first 3 weeks and IMO is slightly ahead of Jacobs. In saying that, i think there's room for both of them, particularly if Atley moves up the ground.

 

[niko11]

I think it's a good thing that Jacobs is playing well and we are discussing if he fits in our 22..

 

[danj]

That's the entire point I'm making, I know he hasn't and won't.

Thommo can be found out on the really big guys, but has been forced to play on them due to lack of options. Spud/Grima likewise. They haven't been suitable match ups, but been forced to do them and have held up remarkably well quite often.

Anyway, regardless of who is best or whatever Thommo and Atley have the ability to be gun defenders with dangerous rebound. We can agree on that!

Isnt this where Tarrant has really started to fill a niche?

 

[Benno_900]

He is.

Not according to Scott.

 

[RobZombie]

Very surprised to see Spuds name mention, performed better than most are giving him credit for on the weekend.

I did say it won't happen. Suppose if I'm going to make a name as an "-ist" it might as well be a Firrito-ist. Which I won't enjoy as he's a good bloke and decent player. But someone's gotta do it.

Just looked up McMillans career statistics and it's fairly vanilla. Highest ever possessions- 26 (against Melbourne in 2013) and tackles- 5 achieved just 3 times and a career average of 4 contested possessions stood out the most in terms of being underwhelming.

JMac's last full season as a 21 year old compares favourably to Spud's Renaissance season last year. He should reasonably expect to improve incrementally over the next 2-3 seasons. He's like for like height/size, more flexible, can play as a defensive winger/mid and probably even accountable HF, hits the scoreboard more, tackles more, chips in with a few clearances, gives away fewer frees and has better disposal efficiency in a comparable role.

Spud is slightly bigger bodied, gets more rebound 50s and one percenters and marginally more disposals.

Discounting current form and fitness, if it comes down to the two of them who do you pick? The 23 year old or the 32 year old?

 

[Saintly31]

Isnt this where Tarrant has really started to fill a niche?

Yes and fingers crossed he can stay fit and in form.

Would be huge for us.

 

[Dirty_11]

I did say it won't happen. Suppose if I'm going to make a name as an "-ist" it might as well be a Firrito-ist. Which I won't enjoy as he's a good bloke and decent player. But someone's gotta do it.

JMac's last full season as a 21 year old compares favourably to Spud's Renaissance season last year. He should reasonably expect to improve incrementally over the next 2-3 seasons. He's like for like height/size, more flexible, can play as a defensive winger/mid and probably even accountable HF, hits the scoreboard more, tackles more, chips in with a few clearances, gives away fewer frees and has better disposal efficiency in a comparable role.

Spud is slightly bigger bodied, gets more rebound 50s and one percenters and marginally more disposals.

Discounting current form and fitness, if it comes down to the two of them who do you pick? The 23 year old or the 32 year old?

View attachment 128722

Form and fitness are pretty big discounts, may as well discount age as well. Not really like for like due to Spuds size and ability to take bigger opponents but obviously long term it's JMac. Wouldn't be dropping Spud for him at the moment though.

 

[dus]

Spud > JMac