Cheating at Uni

[John Dawh]

I don't want to cast a racial stereotype, but:


http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...spread-cheating-revealed-20141112-11kzj0.html


When I was at uni everyone knew how widespread cheating was with Asians and I know people from other unis say the same thing. The general line of thought is that there's lots of pressure from parents to succeed as well as Asians in a cultural sense not seeing it as such a bad thing.


I found this article quite timely as well:

Then Vanessa Mae the musician cheated to get to Sochi Olympics:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/winter-...-qualifying-manipulation-20141111-11kov4.html



Cheatins' beatin'.

 

[Raz0r6ack]

I just graduated university and knew plenty of people regardless of race who cheated at one time or another.

Survival of the fittest.

 

[John Dawh]

Then there's systematic cheating......

I'm sure lots of people cheat here and there, and I'm sure there's a few Asians that don't cheat..... But it was very noticeable when I was at unit that they were doing some wholesale cheatin'. As I said, I think it's a cultural thing and you named it "survival of the fittest". I've been to China before and it's every man for themselves. I guess that happens when there's a billion people. You have to do what you have to do.

 

[jimbler]

"Are you racking your brains on your school work? Do you worry about spending $3000 retaking tuition on the failing subject? Leave your worries to MyMaster and make your study easier!," one flyer posted on a toilet door at the University of Technology, Sydney, read.

I'm surprised they didn't have someone handing them out at the door after lectures.

 

[John Dawh]

I'd imagine the girl whose business it was has wrecked it for everyone (well, asians at least). Universities are going to be forced to clamp down because allegedly they have been turning a blind eye. The media keeps talk about international students but in my experience it was the vast majority of Asians and most of them were Aussie asians.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Have me enough Asian graduates from Aussie Uni's who can barely speak English at an acceptable level, to question how in the world they managed to get through. While Uni's can still charge them 2 to 3 times as much as Aussie students they will do all they can to ensure they get through.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

youd be surprised how many people cheat especially in particular course.

my particular course (i will not mention name and place) used to have around half the class cheating during exams.

some took it further and used to pay a particular lecturer who later got caught.

 

[John Dawh]

Have me enough Asian graduates from Aussie Uni's who can barely speak English at an acceptable level, to question how in the world they managed to get through. While Uni's can still charge them 2 to 3 times as much as Aussie students they will do all they can to ensure they get through.

I sort of get this though. It's wrong but self interest is human nature. Uni's need the high fee paying students. High fee paying students with limited English need to pass.

I can't speak for other unis, but most of the international students had pretty good english.

 

[radiojake]

if you're having to cheat at uni, you're doing it wrong..

getting good marks is great and it's certainly makes you feel pretty good, but ultimately the grades shouldn't be the reason you're there


Turning university into neo-liberal model factories churning out certificates has pretty much ruined education

 

[The Coup]

I am still flummoxed that Chinese kids who can't speak conversational English are somehow able to get Law degrees in Australia considering so much of the mark depends on your ability to independently endure a 3 hour marathon exam written entirely in English.

Unless the Chinese people at Uni just pretended not to speak English every time I tried to talk to them. That could be it. It's the only reasonable explanation outside of systemic corruption.

 

[Dory_77]

I am still flummoxed that Chinese kids who can't speak conversational English are somehow able to get Law degrees in Australia considering so much of the mark depends on your ability to independently endure a 3 hour marathon exam written entirely in English.

Unless the Chinese people at Uni just pretended not to speak English every time I tried to talk to them. That could be it. It's the only reasonable explanation outside of systemic corruption.

Reading and speaking a language are very different skills though. I can read some languages to a workable level, but can't speak them unless the person is talking verrrry slooooowlllllyyy.
On cheating: obviously internationals are going to be more interested in it; they're paying far more for their education here so failing has far greater consequences for them. I'm fairly apathetic about the issue. In a way I dislike cheating because obviously it's dishonest etc. but at the same time, I disagree with some of the ways unis teach and assess subjects which mean that cheating can be so common, beneficial and easy.

 

[The Coup]

Reading and speaking a language are very different skills though. I can read some languages to a workable level, but can't speak them unless the person is talking verrrry slooooowlllllyyy.
On cheating: obviously internationals are going to be more interested in it; they're paying far more for their education here so failing has far greater consequences for them. I'm fairly apathetic about the issue. In a way I dislike cheating because obviously it's dishonest etc. but at the same time, I disagree with some of the ways unis teach and assess subjects which mean that cheating can be so common, beneficial and easy.

That's why I'm open to the possibility that while they appear not to speak English, they may very well read it and write it.

Similar thing with Japanese people, many learn English at school - at least a bit - but very few feel comfortable speaking it unless they have an actual interest in western culture.

I might be ignorant of the Chinese students in Australia, they just didn't appear to speak English.

You're spot on about the cheating, especially so for Indian students. Quite often whole neighbourhoods chip in money to send one smart kid to school - you can imagine the kind of fate that awaits them if they * it up.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Unless the Chinese people at Uni just pretended not to speak English every time I tried to talk to them. That could be it. It's the only reasonable explanation outside of systemic corruption.

I've become suss of this.

People who study engineering and boring arse business courses have told me about Asian students who are appalling at English – can barely illuminate even the most basic of points, struggle to pronounce common words, and have a serious issue with comprehension. Now of course the universities will take anyone's money and especially if it's hugely inflated international money. They'd be dumb to turn down the huge amount of cash they get from overseas. So the reading and writing and speaking tests must be almost amazingly easy – or they don't even mark them and let anyone pass.

But they're also from a culture that's pretty exclusive and they'll always tend to hang around by themselves – I guess like westerners would if there was a group studying in Tibet. However, people would always tell me their language skills would plummet in group projects. And in normal, social situations, just totally blank you and show disinterest. So it's probably a concoction of both. And how many of them are going to socialise when they understand that their parents are paying huge amounts of cash upfront (as well as the absolutely incredible, $430-a-week-for-a-shoebox-rooms) for them to be studying?

I've been to three unis that all felt quite different but the frustration of a language barrier was incredible. Especially when you study something hugely reliant on class interaction. What is the point of them being unable to understand language, or the rest of the class having to patronise barely coherent sentences? It's certainly not conducive to the massive fees. The university system is fundamentally ****ed up – probably correlates to the lack of student protests and care.

 

[Teagueeee15]

I am still flummoxed that Chinese kids who can't speak conversational English are somehow able to get Law degrees in Australia considering so much of the mark depends on your ability to independently endure a 3 hour marathon exam written entirely in English.

Unless the Chinese people at Uni just pretended not to speak English every time I tried to talk to them. That could be it. It's the only reasonable explanation outside of systemic corruption.

I did a business course which was mostly made up of international students from Asian countries. From talking to those who I became friends with, many would use services such as MyMaster but in exams they would go to the extreme of paying somebody to sit it for them. All that was needed was a half decent forgery of the student ID card and the invigilators, who were elderly and not associated with the university outside the examination windows don't know the students from a bar of soap so they are able to get away with it.

From talking to these international students it's also clear that sitting the IELTS examination in a country such as China has it's advantages over sitting it in Australia, even though you are supposed to be sitting the same test regardless of where you are in the world. I guess this is how they obtain the required marks to be accepted into an Australian university.

 

[CrazyDon]

We had plenty of Asian uni students at my Uni try and do Teaching as an "easy course".. When placement came and their mentors failed them because they couldn't teach Literacy due to poor english skills...

As for the article.. I reckon a lot has to do with pressures from home to succeed and set families up. In some cultures it's expected that the kids get high paying jobs to support their parents when they can no longer work.

 

[rdhopkins2]

I completed my uni degree in 2002. It was always frustrating how often in group assignment situations we were forced to rewrite the work of an international student due to their poor English. It just made more work for everyone in the group. It's a failing of the system, but when you get full-fee paying internationals, you are bound to encounter people that should not have been there. I'm not saying that they are dumb or unintelligent; I have met many smart and lovely international people. It is a huge frustration though as a student. It would appear not much has changed.

 

[Matt Stevic]

I completed my uni degree in 2002. It was always frustrating how often in group assignment situations we were forced to rewrite the work of an international student due to their poor English. It just made more work for everyone in the group. It's a failing of the system, but when you get full-fee paying internationals, you are bound to encounter people that should not have been there. I'm not saying that they are dumb or unintelligent; I have met many smart and lovely international people. It is a huge frustration though as a student. It would appear not much has changed.

It's absolute lunacy how we can have Full fee international students but not full fee domestics.

And yes, I had the same experiences.

 

[Zarrix]

I've cheated once at uni, but felt I had no choice due to the ridiculousness of a particular assignment which required us to obtain access to the financial and personal data of a non-profit organisation. Was absolutely no chance any organisation in their right mind would allow a bunch of uni students to access this private data, so ended up just cooking up an assignment. Got a HD for it, though lucky they didn't contact the phone number or email (real contact details) of the organisation we listed.

Have heard of fourth years cheating exams in my current degree though. Can't understand the rationale, three and a half years down the drain. Can kind of understand a first year layman who doesn't care much trying this, but not when you have come so far.

 

[dinger]

I completed my uni degree in 2002. It was always frustrating how often in group assignment situations we were forced to rewrite the work of an international student due to their poor English. It just made more work for everyone in the group. It's a failing of the system, but when you get full-fee paying internationals, you are bound to encounter people that should not have been there. I'm not saying that they are dumb or unintelligent; I have met many smart and lovely international people. It is a huge frustration though as a student. It would appear not much has changed.

I worked with many international students, some with a pretty poor grasp on the English language, whose concepts, work rate and overall quality of work was reasonably high, but just poor grammar/spelling etc. Really couldn't care less about correcting their work - I've been with some absolutely lousy students who put in no effort so as long as people are trying, I'm happy to take out a bit of time to do a bit of a clean up.

However, I was recently with an international student in a final year project who couldn't put together a coherent sentence and put in no effort and needless to say it was insanely frustrating, as we were regularly communicating with people within industry, doing interviews, writing up reports, doing presentations etc. and it felt like I was at a huge disadvantage comparatively - as I winded up literally doing approximately 90% of the project while questioning the quality of my degree due to the other guy being capable of getting to final year while outputting such a s**t quality of work. I'd really like to get some form of 'whistle blower' regarding a lot of these issues within Universities as although I understand the international students bring in insanely large amounts of $$$, I really can't tell if my allegations are in my head or if the guy just got a free ride due to being an inty student.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

In my first year of law we had a group assignment with an Aussie mature ager who contributed one page of writing, no punctuation, no paragraphs, and completely missing the point. Had to completely re-write the morning it was due, as that's when he handed it to me. Needless to say i didn't see him in second year.

 

[rdhopkins2]

My degree was only three years but I found that it was either plagiarised with no references and gave us a need to rewrite their contribution lest the group be accused of plagiarism. Alternatively it was their work, but so bad it had to be almost entirely rewritten to make sense.

I feel for anyone who comes here as it's a great effort to study at tertiary level in a second language. I admire this. Ultimately though, we hated group projects for this reason. Nothing against the students who were in most instances nice people.

That said as long as they are making good money off the internationals, universities will be loathe to fail them or make life tougher for them.

 

[rdhopkins2]

In my first year of law we had a group assignment with an Aussie mature ager who contributed one page of writing, no punctuation, no paragraphs, and completely missing the point. Had to completely re-write the morning it was due, as that's when he handed it to me. Needless to say i didn't see him in second year.

I have no problem with someone needing genuine help and requesting extra assistance from me but crap like this is not on. Glad this person didn't get through to second year then!

 

[RUNVS]

I went to see my course adviser a few weeks ago and I could clearly hear the meeting she was having with another student and in this meeting the course adviser was telling this new student that her English skills could be a problem and that she should just do 1 unit this semester to see how she goes as it is better to do 1 unit and pass it than doing 3 units and failing all of them. This girl did not want to believe that as she kept insisting she wanted to do 3 units. The course adviser kept telling her that would be difficult for her and she should wait to do 3 units a semester until she is sure she can handle the workload. The course adviser explained that a Bachelor of Arts is not easy (yes it is) and as soon as the new student heard that she insisted she could change to a Bachelor of Social science and the course adviser again explained that the Bachelor of Social Science is just as hard.

The conversation went on for an hour, going 20 minutes into when I was supposed to see the course adviser and this girl just refused to accept anything the course adviser was telling her.

 

[Shoei]

In my first year of law we had a group assignment with an Aussie mature ager who contributed one page of writing, no punctuation, no paragraphs, and completely missing the point. Had to completely re-write the morning it was due, as that's when he handed it to me. Needless to say i didn't see him in second year.

I'm in my 6th year of Law and i still get grouped with people that can barely string a coherent sentence together on paper.