Chinese Free Trade Deal, Has the Australian Government Betrayed Australia

[pokerspiv]

Nope.

Even taking into account disparity of wages, we still spend as a percentage of income, less than the majority of other countries on earth. A lot less.

The average person does. Someone who makes $30,000 a year spends a much higher proportion of their income on food than the person who makes $250,000 a year does. Your figures are total earnings divided by total spending.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Feel free to compare the prices of various fruits and vegetables on the 2 major supermarkets online shopping lists all you want.

The information is there for you, not too hard to search.

how much does untreated sewage at your front door cost?

 

[pokerspiv]

I find it ironic he claims this helps the poor when it leads to a loss of unskilled workers decreasing the opportunities for the poor and thus less competition for unskilled workers means they can keep their pay low.

Please explain how making food more expensive helps the poor in 100 words or less.

 

[Slax]

Very elastic value this 10 x more expoensive.

Pick and choose your items and you can always make an arguement to prove the claim. Waiting to see the response from the link I posted, should be fun.

 

[Play by Numbers]

The average person does. Someone who makes $30,000 a year spends a much higher proportion of their income on food than the person who makes $250,000 a year does. Your figures are total earnings divided by total spending.

Nope. Still far less.

Take someone earning 30k. If they spend 100$ on groceries pw, that is around 17% of gross income putting them well within the lower quartile.

Food is expensive in Australia, but again, is comparable to similar states. Likewise, as a percentage of income, we spend less on food than most nations.

Are you in favor of raising the GST?

 

[pokerspiv]

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...est-on-the-poor-americas-flawed-tariff-system

Good article here about how trade barriers hurt the poor in the country that imposes them as well as the poor in the country that they are imposed on. The only people who benefit from trade barriers are the industry they protect. Everyone else takes it up the bumhole.

When Barnaby Joyce craps on about how food prices will rise because of a free trade agreement, he is pandering to his constituency - the people who currently benefit from trade barriers.

 

[clogged]

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...est-on-the-poor-americas-flawed-tariff-system

Good article here about how trade barriers hurt the poor in the country that imposes them as well as the poor in the country that they are imposed on. The only people who benefit from trade barriers are the industry they protect. Everyone else takes it up the bumhole.

When Barnaby Joyce craps on about how food prices will rise because of a free trade agreement, he is pandering to his constituency - the people who currently benefit from trade barriers.

None of this has anything to do with quarantine.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-14/us-orange-imports-squeeze-out-sunshine-coast-grower/4687990

 

[pokerspiv]

Pick and choose your items and you can always make an arguement to prove the claim. Waiting to see the response from the link I posted, should be fun.

You posted a link to the exact same website I linked previously. I'm not going to spend all day copying and pasting Numbeo links unless you go first. I have already provided far more to back up my position than anyone else in this thread.

 

[Play by Numbers]

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/artic...est-on-the-poor-americas-flawed-tariff-system

Good article here about how trade barriers hurt the poor in the country that imposes them as well as the poor in the country that they are imposed on. The only people who benefit from trade barriers are the industry they protect. Everyone else takes it up the bumhole.

When Barnaby Joyce craps on about how food prices will rise because of a free trade agreement, he is pandering to his constituency - the people who currently benefit from trade barriers.

Which has no relevance to the discussion over food prices.

We have one of the least protected agricultural sectors in the world, taking into account tarrifs and subsidies. We do have strict quarantine and safety laws, because they are needed.

As for other commodities like steal, again, not relevant.

Food in the US is by far the cheapest, compared to income out of any country in the world and in terms of prices probably the lowest in the OECD. This is a direct result of protectionism and subsidy.

 

[pokerspiv]

If they spend 100$ on groceries pw

If they only spend $100 on groceries per week then they are mostly eating baked beans, bread and potatoes. Good to know you haven't done your own shopping in 20 years though.

 

[pokerspiv]

We have one of the least protected agricultural sectors in the world, taking into account tarrifs and subsidies. We do have strict quarantine and safety laws, because they are needed.

We have the strictest quarantine laws in the world, which is the best form of protection you can get. No tariffs or any of that subtle stuff, just do not pass go.

 

[Slax]

You posted a link to the exact same website I linked previously. I'm not going to spend all day copying and pasting Numbeo links unless you go first. I have already provided far more to back up my position than anyone else in this thread.

Do you want me to copy and paste a collection of European cities to prove your arguement false or will you just admit it and save me the time?

 

[Play by Numbers]

If they only spend $100 on groceries per week then they are mostly eating baked beans, bread and potatoes. Good to know you haven't done your own shopping in 20 years though.

If your income is 20-30k, don't buy tonnes of luxury items. As someone who cooks and cooks well, I can easilly purchase the fresh food required for 100-150$.

The whole premise of your argument is wrong and demonstrably so.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

What about the Aussie blacksmiths who were put out of business by the automobile?
What about the Aussie textile workers who were put out of business by allowing the import of clothes?
What about the Aussie manfucturing workers who all got laid off and had their jobs shipped overseas after Australia introduced the minimum wage in 1907?

They got different jobs.

Farmers will grow something else, or sell their farms to someone who can make a profit. Owning a farm should not be a license to print money at the expense of the rest of the population, and I say that as someone who grew up on a farm and is still involved in the family farm.

and where are these jobs coming from? you can't even keep a straight argument, supposedly its a licence to print money. yet the solution to not being able to make money is to sell it to those who have a licence to print money by having large international companies that pay next to no ******* tax!

you say it as a cold hearted campaigner, who has never been "poor" you're not helping anyone, you take jobs away from people you force them to compete with more unskilled workers for the same jobs thus decreasing competition and being reduce pressure to pay competitive wages.
thus decreasing the poors overall wealth.

how is increasing the amount of unemployed helping the poor?

 

[pokerspiv]

Do you want me to copy and paste a collection of European cities to prove your arguement false or will you just admit it and save me the time?

No, I'd like you to post European countries, not cities. Since price per city is obviously variable by rent. Of course food is going to cost more in Zurich (the most expensive city in the world) where rents are astronomical than it is going to cost in Warrnambool. Feel free to list all the countries that have more expensive groceries than Australia. I searched through all the major European countries and the only one I found was Norway.

 

[Play by Numbers]

We have the strictest quarantine laws in the world, which is the best form of protection you can get. No tariffs or any of that subtle stuff, just do not pass go.

Changing the goalposts.

No, our quarantine laws are justifiably strict. Biosecurity is a huge issue in Australia. Given rather unique flora and fauna characteristics and lack of natural predators, or specific environmental conditions local environments and industry are particularly vulnerable to invasive pest species.

The costs to such a low subsidy agricultural sector are huge. Laxer quarantine laws mean serious threat to domestic industry.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Please explain how making food more expensive helps the poor in 100 words or less.

no ones making it more expensive, who is talking about making food more expensive?
you want to make food cheaper by under cutting Australian workers.

 

[pokerspiv]

If your income is 20-30k, don't buy tonnes of luxury items.

Sure you can't not have realised that my entire point all along has been that many kinds of fresh fruit and vegetables are effectively luxury items because of the price.

Many kinds of tropical fruits and vegetables that people take for granted here are considered luxury foods in Australia. There's no reason that has to be the case, but you guys seem to like it that way as long as you can still afford them.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Sure you can't not have realised that my entire point all along has been that many kinds of fresh fruit and vegetables are effectively luxury items because of the price.

Many kinds of tropical fruits and vegetables that people take for granted here are considered luxury foods in Australia. There's no reason that has to be the case, but you guys seem to like it that way as long as you can still afford them.

well perhaps leave people who actually live in this country worry about the best way to run the ******* country.

 

[pokerspiv]

No, our quarantine laws are justifiably strict. Biosecurity is a huge issue in Australia. Given rather unique flora and fauna characteristics and lack of natural predators, or specific environmental conditions local environments and industry are particularly vulnerable to invasive pest species.

None of our unique flora and fauna is present in supermarkets.

Actually I exaggerate, there is 1 example of each.

Macadamia Nut, and Kangaroo. Zero other native Australian species are found for sale in most supermarkets. As Jared Diamond pointed out in Guns, Germs and Steel, indigenous Australians didn't really have much to work with when it came to discovering agriculture.

So what you are really saying is that our introduced species need protection from the same introduced species that are grown in other countries.

Biosecurity is a huge issue for every country when it comes to farming. But few other countries have quarantine as strict as Australia. The main rationale behind food import restrictions is industry protection. Even Barnaby Joyce knows that.

 

[pokerspiv]

no ones making it more expensive, who is talking about making food more expensive?
you want to make food cheaper by under cutting Australian workers.

Restricing food imports from countries with cheaper costs of production makes food more expensive for Australians. The same way that restricting textile imports used to make textiles more expensive for Australians.

 

[clogged]

None of our unique flora and fauna is present in supermarkets.

Actually I exaggerate, there is 1 example of each.

Macadamia Nut, and Kangaroo. Zero other native Australian species are found for sale in most supermarkets. As Jared Diamond pointed out in Guns, Germs and Steel, indigenous Australians didn't really have much to work with when it came to discovering agriculture.

So what you are really saying is that our introduced species need protection from the same introduced species that are grown in other countries.

Biosecurity is a huge issue for every country when it comes to farming. But few other countries have quarantine as strict as Australia. The main rationale behind food import restrictions is industry protection. Even Barnaby Joyce knows that.

Whoosh!

 

[Sydney Bloods]

None of our unique flora and fauna is present in supermarkets.

Actually I exaggerate, there is 1 example of each.

Macadamia Nut, and Kangaroo. Zero other native Australian species are found for sale in most supermarkets. As Jared Diamond pointed out in Guns, Germs and Steel, indigenous Australians didn't really have much to work with when it came to discovering agriculture.

So what you are really saying is that our introduced species need protection from the same introduced species that are grown in other countries.

Biosecurity is a huge issue for every country when it comes to farming. But few other countries have quarantine as strict as Australia. The main rationale behind food import restrictions is industry protection. Even Barnaby Joyce knows that.

and isn't it funny that we are the last country in the world unaffected by the varroa mite?

 

[Play by Numbers]

None of our unique flora and fauna is present in supermarkets.

Actually I exaggerate, there is 1 example of each.

Macadamia Nut, and Kangaroo. Zero other native Australian species are found for sale in most supermarkets. As Jared Diamond pointed out in Guns, Germs and Steel, indigenous Australians didn't really have much to work with when it came to discovering agriculture.

So what you are really saying is that our introduced species need protection from the same introduced species that are grown in other countries.

Biosecurity is a huge issue for every country when it comes to farming. But few other countries have quarantine as strict as Australia. The main rationale behind food import restrictions is industry protection. Even Barnaby Joyce knows that.

I never said it was. It is worth protecting though.

Biosecurity is a worldwide concern, but for Australia it is a particular issue. Firstly, we lack many of the natural predators that will help limit numbers of pest species. Second, due to the unique character of Australian flora farmland often provides the best food sources for invasive pests.

Already, invasive species are a huge burden on industry, so why in a country so vulnerable and so difficult to protect given size, should we make the issue worse?