Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[BlightysCats]

I agree, it's just one crazy person on here that has to always belittle Bomber to justify his love for CS.

I'm not prepared to give CS 10 years unless he proves within the next 2-3 years that he's capable of constructing a team good enough to win a flag.

Or a game plan good enough to win a flag. Essendon will end up with Ratten as their coach, vastly improve, and we'll regret not having had more guts as a club to act when needed. Beveridge, Roos, Richardson's Saints, Simpson at West Coast, Clarkson, and Hardwick are above Scott in my estimations as a match day coach. I put Scott in the same category as Hinkley, Brad Scott, and Longmire - Coach's who prepare a good game plan prior to matches at times and can win off the back of their preparation alone but if the game turns on match day or their preparation (especially on the oppositions likely set ups) is miscalculated then they have very little ability and imagination needed to adapt during the match tactically.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I agree, it's just one crazy person on here that has to always belittle Bomber to justify his love for CS.

I'm not prepared to give CS 10 years unless he proves within the next 2-3 years that he's capable of constructing a team good enough to win a flag.

The fact is that CS did a better job in 2011 with that great side than Bomber was able to do in 2007,2008,2009 and 2010.

Out of those 5 years it was 2011 that we had the weakest side. We had no Ablett and the playing group was getting old. However not only did we win the premiership it was the only year that we were able to comfortably win all 3 finals .No side got within 6 goals of us that year.

 

[abet]

Having 38 bounces is not meaningless its massive and shows how could be scored against on the turnover.Sides very rarely have more than 20 bounces a game 38 is gigantic.

The idea that things just went freakishly wrong on GF day in 08 is false. Collingwood destroyed us by 86 points early that year and got within 5 points of beating us in the 07 prelim with the same tactic.Don't forget we were a bad umpire decision or another 30 seconds away from potentially losing that prelim against Collingwood .Geelong had 9 All Australian players that year and Collingwood had 0.We had also only played Hawthorn once that year who pushed us within 2 goals and seem to work away from that game extremely confident that they would win the next time they played us.

Why did Geelong win the 2007 and 2009 premiership ? Geelong possibly had the most talented playing list the game has ever seen

Bomber was a coach for 12 years ,Scott has only been a coach for 4 and a half years. It took Bomber 10 years to get 2 those 2 premierships .

The fact is that CS did a better job in 2011 with that great side than Bomber was able to do in 2007,2008,2009 and 2010.

Out of those 5 years it was 2011 that we had the weakest side. We had no Ablett and the playing group was getting old. However not only did we win the premiership it was the only year that we were able to comfortably win all 3 finals .No side got within 6 goals of us that year.

Blah blah blah, tell someone who cares, the way i see it, Bomber 2 flags, Scott 1 flag but with a team Bomber put together.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Blah blah blah, tell someone who cares, the way i see it, Bomber 2 flags, Scott 1 flag but with a team Bomber put together.

You know me abet nothing but nice to you but the last bit I will argue you on until I'm blue in the face, the way you've worded it yes it was strictly Bombers list but it implies something else which is what I disagree with vehemently.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

You know me abet nothing but nice to you but the last bit I will argue you on until I'm blue in the face, the was you've worded it yes it was strictly Bombers list but it implies something else which is what I disagree with vehemently.

Scott didn't have to work as hard for his flag as Bomber did for his two. That's a fact. Scott didn't build the 2011 team. It was there for him. Bomber had a shambles of a club and shambles of a list to work with when he got to the club. He built the list and the culture to the point where it was a powerhouse of the competition, and Scott came in and reaped the benefits in 2011. What Scott did was akin to adding a fresh coat of paint to a house that Bomber built from the foundation up.

 

[abet]

You know me abet nothing but nice to you but the last bit I will argue you on until I'm blue in the face, the was you've worded it yes it was strictly Bombers list but it implies something else which is what I disagree with vehemently.

I'll never be offended with anything you say about me NSFB, i will always be nice to you too, you should know me and the reason i would have stated what i did.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Scott didn't have to work as hard for his flag as Bomber did for his two. That's a fact. Scott didn't build the 2011 team. It was there for him. Bomber had a shambles of a club and shambles of a list to work with when he got to the club. He built the list and the culture to the point where it was a powerhouse of the competition, and Scott came in and reaped the benefits in 2011. What Scott did was akin to adding a fresh coat of paint to a house that Bomber built from the foundation up.

Yes. A lot of the players in the team in 2011 were here beforehand and that can't be disputed but anyone who argues the team was on autopilot and anyone could have one that year with that team, well I'll disagree strongly. Far too little credit is given to Scott because of this, yet when the inevitable downturn in performances have arisen because he inherited a list with a very short shelf life well that's Scott's fault. Can't have it both ways.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Scott didn't have to work as hard for his flag as Bomber did for his two. That's a fact. Scott didn't build the 2011 team. It was there for him. Bomber had a shambles of a club and shambles of a list to work with when he got to the club. He built the list and the culture to the point where it was a powerhouse of the competition, and Scott came in and reaped the benefits in 2011. What Scott did was akin to adding a fresh coat of paint to a house that Bomber built from the foundation up.

I agree totally that Thompson build that list , at the same time Scott was able to win a premiership with that list while Thompson could not even make a GF the year before .That's without Scott having Ablett.

Lets also put things into perspective Bomber had a lot of help in getting the list and the club into the position it was in 2007.Costa,Cook and Wells and later on Hocking and Balme all played a massive role.It was a team effort.It also helped that we bottomed out in the year that produced the greatest draft of all time.

Another fact about Bomber , to build a side for the future it seems that Bomber had to miss the finals to do so .Have a look at what Geelong got out of the draft in the years we made the finals under Thompson. Thomspon was not able to coach for the future and the present at the same time which is what we are asking Scott to do.

 

[abet]

I agree totally that Thompson build that list , at the same time Scott was able to win a premiership with that list while Thompson could not even make a GF the year before .That's without Scott having Ablett.

Lets also put things into perspective Bomber had a lot of help in getting the list and the club into the position it was in 2007.Costa,Cook and Wells and later on Hocking and Balme all played a massive role.It was a team effort.It also helped that we bottomed out in the year that produced the greatest draft of all time.

Another fact about Bomber , to build a side for the future it seems that Bomber had to miss the finals to do so .Have a look at what Geelong got out of the draft in the years we made the finals under Thompson. Thomspon was not able to coach for the future and the present at the same time which is what we are asking Scott to do.

Blah blah blah about Bomber again, don't forget it's Bomber 2 flags, Scott 1 flag with a team Bomber put together

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I'll never be offended with anything you say about me NSFB, i will always be nice to you too, you should know me and the reason i would have stated what i did.

No no no abet, as I told Squish, you disagree with me and it's 10 years hard labour in Siberia

 

[abet]

No no no abet, as I told Squish, you disagree with me and it's 10 years hard labour in Siberia

Away from mrs abet for 10 years, mmmmm that sounds like i'm escaping from jail.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Away from mrs abet for 10 years, mmmmm that sounds like i'm escaping from jail.

touché

 

[Partridge]

Lets also put things into perspective Bomber had a lot of help in getting the list and the club into the position it was in 2007.Costa,Cook and Wells and later on Hocking and Balme all played a massive role.It was a team effort.It also helped that we bottomed out in the year that produced the greatest draft of all time.

Except that we finished just as low in 2003. Actually we were a worse team; we only won 7 games and a draw in 2003 versus 9 wins in 2001.

Another fact about Bomber , to build a side for the future it seems that Bomber had to miss the finals to do so .Have a look at what Geelong got out of the draft in the years we made the finals under Thompson. Thomspon was not able to coach for the future and the present at the same time which is what we are asking Scott to do.

Really? Well, from years when Geelong made the finals under Thompson, these guys (among others) were recruited:

2004 - Nathan Ablett, Matthew Egan
2005 - Mathew Stokes (still playing)
2007 - Harry Taylor (still playing), Dawson Simpson (still playing)
2008 - Steven Motlop (still playing), Mitch Brown, Tom Gillies
2009 - Mitch Duncan, Daniel Menzel, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Josh Cowan (all bar Christensen still playing, at least on the list)*

So, even at the merest glance, he recruited 2-3 key forwards (Ablett, Brown, Vardy), 1-2 ruckmen (Simpson, Vardy), 2 x key defenders (Egan, Taylor), and a clutch of promising midfielders / forwards (Stokes, Duncan, Menzel, Christensen and Cowan). Even with the injuries that's still not a bad strike rate, with one player each from the last 4 drafts still absolute walk up starts in our best 22.

* - I'm presuming Scott was at the helm for the 2010 draft, so Guthrie, Smedts and Horlin-Smith can't be included here, but could be in future to the (rightful) credit of Scott.

 

[Catsace]

Nope, they have been better at it. Hawks did a brilliant job of identifying a need and cherry picking a good player, at a good age from a team on its knees. Impressive strategy that has kept them in the hunt, when other teams have had fewer options because of GC and GWS. They have partly been able to do that because they are in a 'premiership window'. I can't say I really like their vulture like-behaviour but you gotta give credit where its due.
But nobody else thought of this strategy either, so its not just us they outsmarted.

The other thing with the Hawks which does seem to defy the ravages of Father Time is the way their players drafted around the time of Geelong's star core have stayed at their level, or in the case of Burgoyne, improved with advancing age. Burgoyne particularly is the Benjamin Button of footy, he was washed up with a gammy knee when he was at Port, and now 5-6 years later is running around like he's 10 years younger. Hodge has suffered a few injuries as well but when he plays he's having a mighty impact, and Mitchell as well is clearance and ball-getting machine. Throw in Lake Harris and Hale, you have five players all the age of Bartel, Kelly and SJ, but they have maintained or even improved their output levels in the last few years.

Having said that, surely at some stage those players have to fall off a cliff. Unless the Hawks really are Benjamin Button. But getting McEvoy and Frawley along with Hale, Gibson, Burgoyne and Lake (plus snaffling Gunstan) their recruiting and ability to increase the output of these recruits is pretty amazing. It has left our recent recruiting well in the shade, without question.

We are just suffering from some bad luck and probably list management based on hope rather than substance in recent years. After 2011 our draft of '99 was looking like the draft of '99 all over, now all of those players are out injured/traded. Hamling traded away gameless after being our first pick in 2011, Smedts our pick 15 compensation pick for Gary Jr has been injured a lot and unable to establish a permanent role in the side, and we also had a player walk away in Hartman as well. McIntosh sadly has been regularly sidelined, along with Dawson too. It's pretty clear, one look at our demographic spells the problem out. Looking at our list, we have these players born between 1986 and 1989 on our list. Harry Taylor, Joel Selwood, Dawson Simpson (27 games in 8 seasons), Mitch Clark (missed a few games w/injury) and Hawkins. Then it gets worse if you add the 1990-91 crew, as only Blicavs and Motlop are fit. Menzel, Cowan, Vardy, Duncan and Stanley are all out injured. YOu can also add the yet to be played Blease in that age group.

Three regular players who are in the prime age of 26-29. And just three fit and available players who are 24-25. That's almost it in a nutshell, contrast that to our sides of 2007-11 when so many were in that sweet spot. That is a demographic black hole if you ever saw one. A lot of it injury based, but no side can withstand that sort of attrition to such a vital age/experience level at that point, where players would be 70-150 game players.

 

[Catsace]

I think the problem is that rather than accepting there's no depth or cohesion in the midfield and reducing rotations to keep good on-ballers in there, people who have no place at a centre clearance are getting game time in there.

Melbourne have no depth, they understand that, so they leave Jones, Viney and Vince in there as long as possible.

Geelong's midfield setup seems to be the same as when they had 10 all-australians in the team. They need to adapt the gameplan to the new team, just like the team is adapted to the gameplan. You don't just set a gameplan and keep it even if you don't have the troops and it's not working. Imagine if Pagan kept using the paddock when Carey was out! Brett Allison's paddock.

At some point you have to accept that a gameplan needs to be changed because you don't have the troops. Or accept the loss in the hope that next year you'll have the troops and this year is useful in ingraining the game plan. But that is reliant on accepting losses this season.

Worked in 1996....freaking hell 7 goals in that QF, we got smashed by 10 goals.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Except that we finished just as low in 2003. Actually we were a worse team; we only won 7 games and a draw in 2003 versus 9 wins in 2001.



Really? Well, from years when Geelong made the finals under Thompson, these guys (among others) were recruited:

2004 - Nathan Ablett, Matthew Egan
2005 - Mathew Stokes (still playing)
2007 - Harry Taylor (still playing), Dawson Simpson (still playing)
2008 - Steven Motlop (still playing), Mitch Brown, Tom Gillies
2009 - Mitch Duncan, Daniel Menzel, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Josh Cowan (all bar Christensen still playing, at least on the list)*

So, even at the merest glance, he recruited 2-3 key forwards (Ablett, Brown, Vardy), 1-2 ruckmen (Simpson, Vardy), 2 x key defenders (Egan, Taylor), and a clutch of promising midfielders / forwards (Stokes, Duncan, Menzel, Christensen and Cowan). Even with the injuries that's still not a bad strike rate, with one player each from the last 4 drafts still absolute walk up starts in our best 22.

* - I'm presuming Scott was at the helm for the 2010 draft, so Guthrie, Smedts and Horlin-Smith can't be included here, but could be in future to the (rightful) credit of Scott.

Regardless of which year was our worst year in 2001 we finished 12th in what was the greatest draft of all time. That year we had 2 lots of 1st,2nd and 3rd round draft picks .The 3rd round pick was Gary Ablett .

Is that list of players drafted in years we made the finals a premiership group ? Most of our players in those premiership years came from drafts were we did not make the finals.

These 2 drafts were the foundation of our premiership sides

99 -Joel Corey ,Cameron Ling, Paul Chapman, Corey Enright
01-Jimmy Bartel, James Kelly, Steve Johnson, Gary Ablett

Than

02-Andrew Mackie, Tom Lonegan
06-Joel Selwood ,Tom Hawkins

Milburn ,Harley and Scarlett were all recruited before Thompson came to Geelong.

Its also worth noting that a number of players recruited on the list you posted list have either left the club or been lost due to injury which explains why we have recently fallen away.

 

[abet]

Regardless of which year was our worst year in 2001 we finished 12th in what was the greatest draft of all time. That year we had 2 lots of 1st,2nd and 3rd round draft picks .The 3rd round pick was Gary Ablett .

Is that list of players drafted in years we made the finals a premiership group ? Most of our players in those premiership years came from drafts were we did not make the finals.

These 2 drafts were the foundation of our premiership sides

99 -Joel Corey ,Cameron Ling, Paul Chapman, Corey Enright
01-Jimmy Bartel, James Kelly, Steve Johnson, Gary Ablett

Than

02-Andrew Mackie, Tom Lonegan
06-Joel Selwood ,Tom Hawkins

Milburn ,Harley and Scarlett were all recruited before Thompson came to Geelong.

Its also worth noting that a number of players recruited on the list you posted list have either left the club or been lost due to injury which explains why we have recently fallen away.

Doesn't matter how you look at it, a Bomber led side was able to recruit and build a champion team but a CS led side is struggling in the recruitment side of things. And you can't blame Bomber for keeping all these LTI players, CS should have the balls to get rid of all except Menz who seems to be the only genuine star amongst them.

 

[Partridge]

Doesn't matter how you look at it, a Bomber led side was able to recruit and build a champion team but a CS led side is struggling in the recruitment side of things. And you can't blame Bomber for keeping all these LTI players, CS should have the balls to get rid of all except Menz who seems to be the only genuine star amongst them.

Forget star, he's the only one who had actually established himself at senior level. The others - for all their adulation - haven't yet.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Forget star, he's the only one who had actually established himself at senior level. The others - for all their adulation - haven't yet.

Again what adulation? You really do like to exaggerate for effect.

All I've seen is some acknowledge that certain players have ability, doubt that's adulation.

 

[Partridge]

Again what adulation? You really do like to exaggerate for effect.

All I've seen is some acknowledge that certain players have ability, doubt that's adulation.

Go back and read about especially Vardy and Cowan.

It's an opinion. You don't like it, tough s**t.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Go back and read about especially Vardy and Cowan.

It's an opinion. You don't like it, tough s**t.

Meow! And you don't like me questioning its validity then tough s**t also!

You're not the only one who can respond in kind

 

[Partridge]

Meow! And you don't like me questioning its validity then tough s**t also!

You're not the only one who can respond in kind

Respond how you want.

 

[Bobby_]

Doesn't matter how you look at it, a Bomber led side was able to recruit and build a champion team but a CS led side is struggling in the recruitment side of things. And you can't blame Bomber for keeping all these LTI players, CS should have the balls to get rid of all except Menz who seems to be the only genuine star amongst them.

my mates often laugh at me when we I suggest Scott did a pretty god job in his first year as coach. They reckon the team would have coached itself and won the flag regardless.

Not sure about that but no doubt the squad was still there ready for one last crack at silverware. You even look at the later final series and all our best performers were still the old firm. Their were cameo performances from Caddy, Duncan & Motlop, but really, Bartel, Stokes, Johnson, Enright . . . they've been doing it for far too long now and it's no surprise this year that form slumps to a couple of those and injury to another, is seeing the team fall right back to the pack for the first time in a good 7-8 years.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Respond how you want.

Still yet to see the adulation...

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I agree, it's just one crazy person on here that has to always belittle Bomber to justify his love for CS.

I'm not prepared to give CS 10 years unless he proves within the next 2-3 years that he's capable of constructing a team good enough to win a flag.

I agree with this .