Christopher Pyne!!!

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Play by Numbers said:
They were also looking at lowering the threshold to 35k.
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A threshold of 35k would put all of these degrees outside of HECS and hence only available to those wealthy enough to pay up front

Band 3: Law, accounting, administration, economics, commerce, dentistry, medicine, veterinary science
Band 2: Mathematics, statistics, computing, built environment, other health, allied health, science, engineering, surveying, agriculture

SEN_Fan said:
Throwing money at 'research' that is just sold for peanuts is not a great idea.
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Our research isn't sold for peanuts, you ******* peanut, it makes the government millions of dollars in royalties each year. But don't let facts stop a good force fed propagnda rant.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to learn though that under a 35k HECS threshold everything you listed will be unavailable to non-wealthy Australians just on 2015 prices, let alone after the stratospheric price rises caused by deregulation.
 
Play by Numbers said:
Students already pay far too much back in HECS.
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On what basis? What about all those ie females who have kids who never pay it back?

On what possible basis does Australia benefit by subsidising people to do degrees such as humanities which can provide them with worse employment outcomes than if they had never been to uni?

Honestly the system needs a huge cash injection
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No it doesn't. It needs a massive transfer from worthless areas of education to those that provide something that the community actually wants.

Universities need large increases in funding from the government if we hope to compete with other developed countries, otherwise the brain drain will be substantial and innovation which is already an issue will plummet
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Australia wont suffer if there is a mass exodus of those with Arts degrees.

Band 1 is as below. Maybe the rational thing to do is to treble their fees and cut those for scientists, engineers etc.

1 Education,[note 2] Nursing,[note 2] Humanities, Behavioural science, Social studies, Foreign languages, Visual and Performing arts, Nursing,[note 1] Education,[note 1] Clinical Psychology
 
SEN_Fan said:
Currently we pay less than 50% of our education?

I repay a HECS debt and no it is not too much if you go in study your degree and leave, if you rack up multiple degrees or keep changing your mind then it might be different.

Why can't this cash injection come from people once they have left and are earning money?
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You currently pay 25% if your lucky
 

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Play by Numbers said:
Nice rant.

Students already pay far too much back in HECS.

.
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No they don't, the don't pay enough especially those in the expensive area to teach.

Australia should do what the Melb model /Oxf/Cam are doing and move to Bachelor/Masters degrees where Masters are paid for and the Bachelors are partly subsidised

This will also help the big research unis specialise and lift their rankings
 
NTRabbit said:
A threshold of 35k would put all of these degrees outside of HECS and hence only available to those wealthy enough to pay up front

Band 3: Law, accounting, administration, economics, commerce, dentistry, medicine, veterinary science
Band 2: Mathematics, statistics, computing, built environment, other health, allied health, science, engineering, surveying, agriculture
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What sort of logic is this? If you pay $500 on $35K the sky will fall in?

Anyway if you listen to the VC of Sydney Uni they will use some of the extra money to give hardship students extra cash on top of hecs making access easier
 
If you are a regular employer of graduates you arnt laughing at Pyne this week. You are just as frustrated as he seemed to be.

At least he tried.

Christ only knows where we would be without 457 visa's.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Currently we pay less than 50% of our education?

I repay a HECS debt and no it is not too much if you go in study your degree and leave
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So wait a second you like me have grown up and taken advantage of a properly funded education system with taxpayer funded incentives specifically so we could get access to affordable education and now you have to pay tax, you're saying..... nah * the next generation make them pay the full cost?

BTW could you tell us the average income of australians with no university degree vs those who have one and compare them both to average wage?
could you tell us the trends in job markets and where the growth industry's are and what requirements they have for job candidates?
 
Bollox said:
If you are a regular employer of graduates you arnt laughing at Pyne this week. You are just as frustrated as he seemed to be.

At least he tried.

Christ only knows where we would be without 457 visa's.
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What kind of graduates are you employing? What is the frustration that you share with Pyne?
And what was going to fix this?


I'm not sure why you don't find Clarke and Dawe funny.
 
Bollox said:
If you are a regular employer of graduates you arnt laughing at Pyne this week. You are just as frustrated as he seemed to be.
At least he tried.
Christ only knows where we would be without 457 visa's.
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Less unemployment?
 
Bollox said:
If you are a regular employer of graduates you arnt laughing at Pyne this week. You are just as frustrated as he seemed to be.

At least he tried.

Christ only knows where we would be without 457 visa's.
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Its shitty Australian employers and businesses that are to blame as much as underfunding.

The private sector in Aus is terrible at skills transference and innovation, preffering to import experience and IP.

Its a laziness and greed that seems to be entrenched in boomer culcha
 
Play by Numbers said:
Its shitty Australian employers and businesses that are to blame as much as underfunding.

The private sector in Aus is terrible at skills transference and innovation, preffering to import experience and IP.

Its a laziness and greed that seems to be entrenched in boomer culcha
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Or it could be uni degrees are not worth the paper they are written on. The kiddies are no good.
 

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medusala said:
On what basis? What about all those ie females who have kids who never pay it back?

On what possible basis does Australia benefit by subsidising people to do degrees such as humanities which can provide them with worse employment outcomes than if they had never been to uni?



No it doesn't. It needs a massive transfer from worthless areas of education to those that provide something that the community actually wants.



Australia wont suffer if there is a mass exodus of those with Arts degrees.

Band 1 is as below. Maybe the rational thing to do is to treble their fees and cut those for scientists, engineers etc.

1 Education,[note 2] Nursing,[note 2] Humanities, Behavioural science, Social studies, Foreign languages, Visual and Performing arts, Nursing,[note 1] Education,[note 1] Clinical Psychology
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I think we have enough teachers and nurses. Lets make their degrees cost 2x their annual salary expectations.
 
Qsaint said:
No they don't, the don't pay enough especially those in the expensive area to teach.

Australia should do what the Melb model /Oxf/Cam are doing and move to Bachelor/Masters degrees where Masters are paid for and the Bachelors are partly subsidised

This will also help the big research unis specialise and lift their rankings
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Agree with this. I study at Unimelb, and the fact that the Bachelors is subsidised means I have time to experiment and try pick what I really want to do. Once we get to Masters, then I'll pay up sooner because I'll hopefully find a specialized job.

People honestly think Pyne will deregulate fees and just leave it? Nope. It's called setting a precedent for further cuts and more money in the pockets of the rich.

People of a certain vintage ITT, many of whom paid nothing for their degrees, can't imagine what it's like paying tax AND a deregulated hecs debt on their 5 figures. You may as well just find confortale retail and hospitality and stay under the threshold.
 
Tulip said:
Agree with this. I study at Unimelb, and the fact that the Bachelors is subsidised means I have time to experiment and try pick what I really want to do. Once we get to Masters, then I'll pay up sooner because I'll hopefully find a specialized job.

People honestly think Pyne will deregulate fees and just leave it? Nope. It's called setting a precedent for further cuts and more money in the pockets of the rich.

People of a certain vintage ITT, many of whom paid nothing for their degrees, can't imagine what it's like paying tax AND a deregulated hecs debt on their 5 figures. You may as well just find confortale retail and hospitality and stay under the threshold.
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DO NOT GET A MASTERS DEGREE WITHOUT ANY EXPERIENCE, IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL TO DO SO.

Look students already have plenty of experience living off Centrelink money which is something like 15k a year.

Lets have a look shall we

Earn $55,000
Lets assume HECS debt of 100k at 5% repayment

$55,000
- 5,000 HECS
- 11k TAX

= 39k left over

ohhhh how will you survive?

PATHETIC, harden up.
 
SEN_Fan said:
DO NOT GET A MASTERS DEGREE WITHOUT ANY EXPERIENCE, IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL TO DO SO.

Look students already have plenty of experience living off Centrelink money which is something like 15k a year.

Lets have a look shall we

Earn $55,000
Lets assume HECS debt of 100k at 5% repayment

$55,000
- 5,000 HECS
- 11k TAX

= 39k left over

ohhhh how will you survive?

PATHETIC, harden up.
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Experience where, you simpleton?

Where do people find a job after a three-four year Bachelor of Arts, Science or Commerce?

Does Woolies count as experience? Or would you rather people worked the mines for five years between degrees to prove how 'hard' they are?

Anybody earning 50k+ in this country, outside of law and medicine, is already working outrageous hours. They do in those fields as well, but the consulting rates are so high that they make more than enough and use their time to excess.

It's not 1980 anymore. There aren't enough jobs for people in any industry. Look at the amount of Uni students struggling to find any work at all.
 
Tulip said:
Experience where, you simpleton?

Where do people find a job after a three-four year Bachelor of Arts, Science or Commerce?

Does Woolies count as experience? Or would you rather people worked the mines for five years between degrees to prove how 'hard' they are?

Anybody earning 50k+ in this country, outside of law and medicine, is already working outrageous hours. They do in those fields as well, but the consulting rates are so high that they make more than enough and use their time to excess.

It's not 1980 anymore. There aren't enough jobs for people in any industry. Look at the amount of Uni students struggling to find any work at all.
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Volunt..... Interns..... There are plenty of ways to gain experience but people are too stupid or naive to take it.

Working at woolies does count as experience, it is better than nothing. I would always hire someone with some work experience over someone who just just been at uni for 5 years.

I earn over 50k and I do not work outrageous hours at all, you obviously have no concept of work.

The reason uni students are unemployed is because the simple fact that, they study and expect to get a job at the end of it. If you are networking through volunteering, internships, career days etc then you don't deserve a job. No one wants to hire a 24 year old know-it-all with absolutely no work experience.


swingdog said:
Masters is pretty much the basic degree now in non-science related areas. In science, it's a Ph.D.
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This is completely incorrect.
 
SEN_Fan said:
Volunt..... Interns..... There are plenty of ways to gain experience but people are too stupid or naive to take it.

Working at woolies does count as experience, it is better than nothing. I would always hire someone with some work experience over someone who just just been at uni for 5 years.

I earn over 50k and I do not work outrageous hours at all, you obviously have no concept of work.

The reason uni students are unemployed is because the simple fact that, they study and expect to get a job at the end of it. If you are networking through volunteering, internships, career days etc then you don't deserve a job. No one wants to hire a 24 year old know-it-all with absolutely no work experience.




This is completely incorrect.
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Volunteer with absolutely no income, unless our dear leader says you've looked hard enough and will give you Centrelink.

Most interns these days go through Masters programmes, so there's more evidence of your lack of knowledge.

People at Uni do try and work, believe it or not. The problem with a full time study load is that you'll do well to do 20 hours a week, and Woolies would rather hire the people who are doing nothing but retail. It truly shows how out of touch if you think that any person can walk into any retail store and get a job these days.

And finally, no. No. The reason we have so many graduates who are unemployed cannot be owing to the fact that they're not trying hard enough. You sound like an absolute fascist. Networking has as much to do with luck and 'who you know' as it does with graft. Some are lucky and get their break, and some don't.
 
Tulip said:
Volunteer with absolutely no income, unless our dear leader says you've looked hard enough and will give you Centrelink.

Most interns these days go through Masters programmes, so there's more evidence of your lack of knowledge.

People at Uni do try and work, believe it or not. The problem with a full time study load is that you'll do well to do 20 hours a week, and Woolies would rather hire the people who are doing nothing but retail. It truly shows how out of touch if you think that any person can walk into any retail store and get a job these days.

And finally, no. No. The reason we have so many graduates who are unemployed cannot be owing to the fact that they're not trying hard enough. You sound like an absolute fascist. Networking has as much to do with luck and 'who you know' as it does with graft. Some are lucky and get their break, and some don't.
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Volunteering is a must if you want a job. You say networking is about luck, well why not improve your chances by meeting people and having something to add to you CV over students who go to uni and not do anything else. Paid work whatever it be Woolies shows employers many things - you can rock up on time, you have problem solving skills, you can communicate with people, maybe some management skills if you are there long enough, you know the work routine...plus you earn money.

No they do not, my experience is limited to business degrees where masters degrees are completely worthless. None of my closest friends have got a masters degree and they have jobs in their chosen fields. I am a recent graduate so I would know a lot more than you.

I never said they weren't looking hard enough, they simply didn't prepare themselves well enough. If you are just relying on a piece of paper to find you a job then you are going to have a very tough time.

-Paid work
-Volunteering - Maybe an internship
-Piece of paper
-Good grades

A combination for success.
 
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