Collingwood Almanac 2014

[Knightmare]

We have a lot of young guys on our list who I wouldn't expect to be commanding big $ over the next 2-4 years.

We have quite a few players on good money retiring in the next 2-3 years.

We also have players on good money who will be negotiating their last contracts that would be far less than what they are currently getting.

Brown, Cloke, Reid, Grundy, Sidey, Swanny, Adams all signed up for the next 3 years.

Beams and Pendle will soon be offered big contracts.

Does this mean that we may be able to free up enough money to negotiate contracts to sign Frawley AND Dangerfield?

With the speed some of the young players are developing our young ones won't be on small salaries forever. Additionally Beams needs to be re-signed and he's a must retain as our clear no.2 midfielder and you want him for a long term deal.

There likely is room for one big name recruit but certainly not two if we wanted to go the big name route but I'm not convinced this is the best way to go.

With the bidding on free agents. The big names and premier players are restricted free agents. That means their current clubs can match the deals so you're hardly assured to get them. If planning to make an outlandish bid for a Dangerfield or Cotchin next year their current clubs can match any deal and you can bet some desperate club will put forward an even more outlandish deal than Collingwood even could manage purely just to add a name player, get some excitement happening among their fanbase while not fully realising the repercussions that will come with the stupidly big deal it would take to acquire this quality of talent.

Free agency is new and clubs are still learning how to work it and you can count on another stupid 9 year Buddy Franklin type deal happening again next year with Dangerfield and Cotchin. Maybe something similar even happens with Frawley this year.

I imagine more likely we'll look to go after the lesser names and go for the smart spends (moneyball route) and keep our salary cap situation flexible rather than spending every cent available to go after a name player.

So that might mean this year David Mundy might be someone to go for. Joel Patfull and Travis Varcoe next year could be other chances and excellent list fits who would fit into our best side. They're examples of guys who are smart spends and all would add plenty to our list and won't take the same stupidly large contract offer to attract.

 

[Shaneprice97]

So that might mean this year David Mundy might be someone to go for. Joel Patfull and Travis Varcoe next year could be other chances and excellent list fits who would fit into our best side. They're examples of guys who are smart spends and all would add plenty to our list and won't take the same stupidly large contract offer to attract.

James Gwilt is another i have thought about who would be a very handy edition to the backline, provides plenty of rebound from the backline with his great skills. At 188cm he has been forced to play as a kpb for the majority of the past few seasons and has done a good job considering the club has been bottom 4. But being born in 1986 he isnt really what we should target and a club who are aiming for a premiership for the next 3 seasons should consider him, or GWS to add more maturity down back.
They way i would attack free agency if i were a recruiter at Fremantle, is asses what the weakness was from 2013 and buy whoever was on the market to give the club atleast 1 A grade season out of that player regardless of there age to fill that weakness for that 1 season so they can have the best opportunity to win the premiership in the upcoming season and to concentrate of that upcoming season more than anything, then if you win the Grandfinal that season talk about contract extensions from there. Hawthorn did this perfectly with Brian Lake, they knew that would get atleast 1 a grade season out of him and thats all it took to win the Grand Final.
But they way i would attack FA if i was Derek Hine is to strictly only target players who are born in 1988-1989(maybe some born 1987) at the end of this season so when that person arrives at the club they are only about 25-26 years old and have 5+ years at the club, a bracket which they would be able to play 100+ games for the club. Clinton Young was one of the younger free agents of his year(1986 in 2012 was the equivalent to 1988 this season) meaning the club would have hoped he could play about 100 games for us which is looking unlikely(i would love for him to play 100 games for us for future f&s possibilities, but for that to happen he would have to play 4 full seasons with us meaning for that to happen he would have to till hes atleast 31 years old) with his injuries but at the time he was fairly young and it looked possible. So with Bryce gibbs born in march 1989, it means he has plenty of good football ahead of him and his first season at his new club(if he leaves, i think its 100% on happening) he will turn 26 years old during the early rounds of that season.

 

[piedpiper32]

With such an inexperienced back half with guys like Langdon and Scharenberg first years and Seedsman and Williams still very much developing players I think for the future prospects of our back half it's important that Maxwell stays on for another season to help the group develop as beyond his on field performance he plays a massive role in helping fast-track the youth.

Your posts are always a tour de force KM and thoroughly enjoy reading them. I'm just glad you barrack for Collingwood and not some other club

Regarding Langdon I thought during preseason that he might surprise a few this year and he hasn't disappointed. Have been impressed by his composure, balance, and skills, even more so given he is 19 and in his first season. I noticed in your 2014 rankings you have him ranked very highly at 15, ahead of guys like Elliott, Grundy, Adams, Brown, White, and Fasolo. Are you basing this on Langdon's performances so far or on potential or a combination of both?

 

[Scodog10]

Great read Knightmare and appreciate the effort to find the time!

I'm in agreeance on Martin. When the club is bringing in Tony Armstrong (should have been rookie listed) to fill a senior list spot in front of you, you've smashed the clubs VFL B&F and you're a top 5 league wide talent at that level it suggests you aren't in favour moving forward. He should have been upgraded post 2013!

Moving on though. I would be investing heavily in the expansion clubs lists. IMO, between them they have just two genuinely strong KPD's (Thompson and Davis) and we have 4 good talents in the role. A trade involving Keeffe or Frost for Hoskin-Elliott or Sexton while holding our second round selection would be my primary objective. The thought process being that if we can go tall with those first two selections we can nail a tall slider with a mid 20's pick and develop them as a KPD. It also allows a nice age profile as well. The other option I'd consider is Kennedy/ Martin to Port to get a Broadbent type. We have an abundance of smalls that play similar roles, they have a lot of bigger bodied utility types and Kennedy/ Martin have the highest trade value so something along those lines could work IMO.

Perhaps Jackson Allen as a DFA to fill a Guerra type setup role could be considered too.

Anything beyond that and you start to impact list chemistry heavily. Bringing in 7 players from opposition clubs through 2012-2013 was poor list management IMO.

We have always operated best when drafting and developing our own. In reading yesterday's article from David King on players recruited from other clubs he listed us with 11 (though I could only name 9) which is far too high even if I doubt the validity of the numbers.

You won't find a bigger supporter of Knights beliefs on the list moving forward. Stability and growing what we have needs to be the order of the day for 2014!

 

[Copeland]

Knightmare
What's your opinion on Gault, he seems to be improving, how far away do you think he is?

 

[Knightmare]

James Gwilt is another i have thought about who would be a very handy edition to the backline, provides plenty of rebound from the backline with his great skills. At 188cm he has been forced to play as a kpb for the majority of the past few seasons and has done a good job considering the club has been bottom 4. But being born in 1986 he isnt really what we should target and a club who are aiming for a premiership for the next 3 seasons should consider him, or GWS to add more maturity down back.
They way i would attack free agency if i were a recruiter at Fremantle, is asses what the weakness was from 2013 and buy whoever was on the market to give the club atleast 1 A grade season out of that player regardless of there age to fill that weakness for that 1 season so they can have the best opportunity to win the premiership in the upcoming season and to concentrate of that upcoming season more than anything, then if you win the Grandfinal that season talk about contract extensions from there. Hawthorn did this perfectly with Brian Lake, they knew that would get atleast 1 a grade season out of him and thats all it took to win the Grand Final.
But they way i would attack FA if i was Derek Hine is to strictly only target players who are born in 1988-1989(maybe some born 1987) at the end of this season so when that person arrives at the club they are only about 25-26 years old and have 5+ years at the club, a bracket which they would be able to play 100+ games for the club. Clinton Young was one of the younger free agents of his year(1986 in 2012 was the equivalent to 1988 this season) meaning the club would have hoped he could play about 100 games for us which is looking unlikely(i would love for him to play 100 games for us for future f&s possibilities, but for that to happen he would have to play 4 full seasons with us meaning for that to happen he would have to till hes atleast 31 years old) with his injuries but at the time he was fairly young and it looked possible. So with Bryce gibbs born in march 1989, it means he has plenty of good football ahead of him and his first season at his new club(if he leaves, i think its 100% on happening) he will turn 26 years old during the early rounds of that season.

I don't think Collingwood are necessarily so far away from a premiership. I'm not seeing it this year with the injuries but our best chance to win may be the next three years so don't sleep on guys born before 1988. Additionally from a free agency perspective these are really the guys who can be acquired at an achievable price point whereas those born 1988 or later will still have exceptionally high value as they're considered longer term players.

Gold Coast and GWS are both building up an absolute Goliath and frankly once developed (3 years from now I expect Gold Coast to win their first flag) it will be lucky if any other team can win a flag.

The oldest example of a player I used above is Joel Patfull. The guy is 30 this year. I don't see that as a barrier. He's a guy and I'd say the same for Sean Dempster who doesn't by position get the respect he deserves. Both are top 5 league back pockets. Who would know? They're both in irrelevant bottom four sides who no one watches. And they're not franchise faces so there might be half a chance to get one of these guys.
With our back half as inexperienced featuring a stack of first, second and third year players if Maxwell is to retire as is widely assumed you want that experience down back to give the back half some stability and experience to firstly help with winning now but also to give the youth some direction and help with their development.

Also regarding the issue of longevity it's not all about age. Nick Dal Santo last offseason is my perfect example of the ideal recruit. The guy doesn't miss games and because of his superior durability even at his age it can be expected that he has another 100+ games remaining and probably 4-5 years left if he wants it, even as a 30 year old this year. Whereas Luke Hodge while born in the same year, drafted in the same draft has had injury after injury, can hardly string together half a season and as a result of that you can expect likely doesn't have the same projected lifespan in the game with probably only another 2-3 years left after this year and certainly far less projected games given his lack of durability.

Gibbs if he wasn't a no.1 overall selection and demanded as heavily as he is I would agree would be an excellent recruiting choice. He fits the club needs. He like Dal Santo is durability as anything and doesn't miss games. So in that sense you're getting a long term players and lots of games which suggests value in that sense. The issue because Gibbs is so young, a no.1 overall selection and such a name player is he'll get payed an over the top amount of money with the two SA clubs clambering over each other to sign him to a big, long term deal which will leave them cash strapped over seasons to come.

I'd prefer Collingwood have the opportunity to add a few guys via free agency each year who can help in winning in the more immediate and filling needs so that we can focus through the draft on going after the best available talents.

Your posts are always a tour de force KM and thoroughly enjoy reading them. I'm just glad you barrack for Collingwood and not some other club

Regarding Langdon I thought during preseason that he might surprise a few this year and he hasn't disappointed. Have been impressed by his composure, balance, and skills, even more so given he is 19 and in his first season. I noticed in your 2014 rankings you have him ranked very highly at 15, ahead of guys like Elliott, Grundy, Adams, Brown, White, and Fasolo. Are you basing this on Langdon's performances so far or on potential or a combination of both?

I'm liking Langdon on performances so far. He did stuggle to contain Lloyd (Richmond) last week defensively but he's showing us something and he's one of the few defenders who has turned up every week. My power rankings are based on what they've done for us or project to do for us this year rather than potential. If it was basing my ratings on potential Grundy would be in my top 5 but he's still young and on performance still needs more years to get anywhere close to that.

Great read Knightmare and appreciate the effort to find the time!

I'm in agreeance on Martin. When the club is bringing in Tony Armstrong (should have been rookie listed) to fill a senior list spot in front of you, you've smashed the clubs VFL B&F and you're a top 5 league wide talent at that level it suggests you aren't in favour moving forward. He should have been upgraded post 2013!

Moving on though. I would be investing heavily in the expansion clubs lists. IMO, between them they have just two genuinely strong KPD's (Thompson and Davis) and we have 4 good talents in the role. A trade involving Keeffe or Frost for Hoskin-Elliott or Sexton while holding our second round selection would be my primary objective. The thought process being that if we can go tall with those first two selections we can nail a tall slider with a mid 20's pick and develop them as a KPD. It also allows a nice age profile as well. The other option I'd consider is Kennedy/ Martin to Port to get a Broadbent type. We have an abundance of smalls that play similar roles, they have a lot of bigger bodied utility types and Kennedy/ Martin have the highest trade value so something along those lines could work IMO.

Perhaps Jackson Allen as a DFA to fill a Guerra type setup role could be considered too.

Anything beyond that and you start to impact list chemistry heavily. Bringing in 7 players from opposition clubs through 2012-2013 was poor list management IMO.

We have always operated best when drafting and developing our own. In reading yesterday's article from David King on players recruited from other clubs he listed us with 11 (though I could only name 9) which is far too high even if I doubt the validity of the numbers.

You won't find a bigger supporter of Knights beliefs on the list moving forward. Stability and growing what we have needs to be the order of the day for 2014!

The expansion clubs are where I'm looking. I also don't mind some of the depth on the Essendon and Geelong lists so I'm also from time to time taking a peek at their VFL sides when I get the chance. Port Melbourne also have a loaded VFL team and will be worth watching.

You're thinking about the right names to target. Hoskin-Elliott, Sexton, Allen has a weapon of a kick on him. And the key defenders will be what I expect will most interest GWS and Gold Coast if we're looking at their players.

As we all like our imaginary trade scenarios I'll put one out there with Collingwood involving GWS.
GWS I imagine would love a shot at Jarrod Witts in an exchange for Jon Giles. Giles is expendable because with Boyd and Patton along with Cameron in that front half, there is hardly space for Giles long term. Witts learning under Mumford would be scary as anything with Witts playing an identical gamestyle, just standing 10cm taller and he could stand in as required if Mumford misses a game and eventually be the guy to take over long term for them.
Then for Collingwood Giles would give us a heck of a no.2 ruck option with his ability to go forward and provide a presence.

In any case the expansion teams no question will have a stack of attractive yet acquirable talent. We'll have a better idea later in the season exactly who is and who isn't on the table.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare
What's your opinion on Gault, he seems to be improving, how far away do you think he is?

He looked better up forward. That's for sure. He's starting to build up a stronger body which is also encouraging and his form was better last week so that was pleasing progress. If we were to retain him with a big preseason he could receive some games in 2015 as a depth guy potentially. This year, I can't imagine he plays with the only scenario I'm seeing is that he really rapidly progresses and we have no other tall options.

 

[Shaneprice97]

This guy interested me, has a great frame for modern AFL and will most likely play this week. A back flanker who could be developed into a big body midfielder, definitely worth taking a punt on him.
http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/player-profile/jeremy-taylor

 

[Knightmare]

This guy interested me, has a great frame for modern AFL and will most likely play this week. A back flanker who could be developed into a big body midfielder, definitely worth taking a punt on him.
http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/player-profile/jeremy-taylor

He's tallish and can run all day. A realistic target for sure as he's not part of Gold Coast's best side but I'm not seeing who he plays in front of. Scharenberg, Seedsman and Langdon as back flankers are all in my opinion better talents so I probably wouldn't be targeting Taylor. As crazy as it may have sounded preseason back flankers aren't a list need.

 

[TradeDraft]

What about Duom Dawam as a Ruckman as a 3rd Rounder?

 

[Knightmare]

What about Duom Dawam as a Ruckman as a 3rd Rounder?

He's more a rookie selection.

Very raw. Can jump and has some reach so he can go up reasonably high for a ruck tap. He just lacks anything much else. He doesn't have the power or followup ability of some of those other athletic ruckman - think Naianui and Nicholls who can win their own ball and really drag it forward and make a difference with his tackling. Duom doesn't have that. Similarly he doesn't have the ability to go forward and have an influence or find it around the ground.

He's a project a club can rookie, but with his game very limited you wouldn't want to spend any more than that on him at this stage and I'm not sure he's the right fit for Collingwood with our need to go more after a veteran ruckman with Grundy and Witts as developing ruckmen plenty.

 

[Vicky Park]

KM, you sometimes cite Witts as a player who might be part of a trade, e.g for one of the up and coming marquis forwards, such as those at GWS. Is this because you think he is ultimately expendable for us, and we can prosper without him; or his loss would be worth it if we could trade in one of those forwards? Do you also see Witts as increasingly attractive trade bait? He is certainly starting to show something for the work the Pies have put into him, having snaffled him via the NSW scholarship program (correct?).

 

[Knightmare]

KM, you sometimes cite Witts as a player who might be part of a trade, e.g for one of the up and coming marquis forwards, such as those at GWS. Is this because you think he is ultimately expendable for us, and we can prosper without him; or his loss would be worth it if we could trade in one of those forwards? Do you also see Witts as increasingly attractive trade bait? He is certainly starting to show something for the work the Pies have put into him, having snaffled him via the NSW scholarship program (correct?).

With Witts my vision long term is still for him to partner up with Grundy. Both have some forward ability (Grundy though the u18 champs kicked 3 goals in numerous games even though he's yet to show it at AFL level) and Witts is looking improved as a forward and both certainly have a presence to them so I would stick by the pair ultimately unless Witts requests a trade home or there is some particularly incredible deal we would not otherwise be able to get over the line - say if we down the track wanted one of Cameron/Boyd/Patton and GWS wanted Witts as a sweetener that's probably when you'd look to move Witts in a deal. But he himself on his own definitely isn't so dominant or attractive that he'd get us Cameron/Boyd/Patton.

Witts I occasionally bring up particularly when talking about trades with GWS because he is someone I imagine will come up in any trade discussions with them as a guy they want on their list. GWS have very few listed players from NSW and GWS don't have a particularly outstanding young ruckman at this point so he's someone I imagine they would really like to have on their list with his rare height, size and with his physical presence, tackling and 2nd and 3rd efforts unlike anything we've seen at his height before. Alongside Mumford, Witts is someone I could really see developing in a hurry so it's something to have in the back of the mind as a potential possibility if Witts requests a move home or if GWS are shopping some serious talent.

Sydney realistically could be another club with their weak ruck stocks who may look to move a key forward to acquire Witts if they feel he's developing well. Maybe we can get Sam Reid home if Witts really develops in a hurry and looms as a potential no.1 option from next year.

Another thing worth noting with the trade value of ruckmen. Depth guys who have been in the system for years and don't look like a chance at establishing themselves are continually traded for second round draft picks or equivalent while young ruckmen are continually traded for first round draft picks or equivalent. So if Witts is traded at some point we'll get some currency.

Now just isn't the time to trade him with no ruck depth on the list. And he's not going to shrink with more preseasons into him so he's hardly losing value. But perhaps in the future he could be expendable. Get in Moore over the offseason and maybe he eventually develops into a key forward who can relieve Grundy in the ruck for that 15% of game time and perhaps we find some other depth guy allowing Witts to be moved on. It's just a situation I'd say with Witts that requires further time to properly assess before making a definite decision on his future.

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

Knighta I like your break down of needs. All pretty on the money. Suggests to me were not quite a flag threat at the moment but also not too far off, especially if we get some upside from the current crop of developing youngsters.

Just on those particular holes you mention:

I'd be tempted to make a play for Mundy. I'm a huge fan, he would add a great and much required point of diff within our midfield, get more ball going our way at key stoppages and free up the finesse users to do their thing more effectively. Although he's 'old' he's said to be a young 28 and if you assumed he had another 3 or 4 seasons in him you'd be potentially looking at that window where you would expect us to contend before the possible GWS GC tsunami hits. Could he be our next 'Luke Ball' trade? While on the mids, you've convinced me on JT and Blair, while I love their game and their endeavour, and as a shorter bloke myself I have a natural affinity, we just can't carry so many players with fewer dimensions to their game. I hope They prove me wrong this year and take it up a level but I suspect you are correct on them within the context of our list. Logically, if they were to go to a club with less issues with those kind of players they could be good assets and have some trade value.

Darcy Moore was described by Quayle in today's Age as perhaps so far the most mobile and versatile of all the current crop of talls, though she noted earlier still much footy to be played in the current TAC season. Assuming Moores development continues on track we could be looking at a 'franchise' player with great versatility to swing back, forward, ruck. While you seem to want a deep forward Cloke apprentice, another versatile tall would surely put us in the frame if Reid and White were both fit and firing. Even if we don't find our exact Cloke replacement.

Mobile, forward pressuring, crumbling forward. Totally agree. Where from I have no idea but I expect you to solve this problem for us by the end of the year Knighta. Don't slacken off, people have high expectations of you,

Thanks mate. Great work.

 

[Knightmare]

Knighta I like your break down of needs. All pretty on the money. Suggests to me were not quite a flag threat at the moment but also not too far off, especially if we get some upside from the current crop of developing youngsters.

Just on those particular holes you mention:

I'd be tempted to make a play for Mundy. I'm a huge fan, he would add a great and much required point of diff within our midfield, get more ball going our way at key stoppages and free up the finesse users to do their thing more effectively. Although he's 'old' he's said to be a young 28 and if you assumed he had another 3 or 4 seasons in him you'd be potentially looking at that window where you would expect us to contend before the possible GWS GC tsunami hits. Could he be our next 'Luke Ball' trade? While on the mids, you've convinced me on JT and Blair, while I love their game and their endeavour, and as a shorter bloke myself I have a natural affinity, we just can't carry so many players with fewer dimensions to their game. I hope They prove me wrong this year and take it up a level but I suspect you are correct on them within the context of our list. Logically, if they were to go to a club with less issues with those kind of players they could be good assets and have some trade value.

Darcy Moore was described by Quayle in today's Age as perhaps so far the most mobile and versatile of all the current crop of talls, though she noted earlier still much footy to be played in the current TAC season. Assuming Moores development continues on track we could be looking at a 'franchise' player with great versatility to swing back, forward, ruck. While you seem to want a deep forward Cloke apprentice, another versatile tall would surely put us in the frame if Reid and White were both fit and firing. Even if we don't find our exact Cloke replacement.

Mobile, forward pressuring, crumbling forward. Totally agree. Where from I have no idea but I expect you to solve this problem for us by the end of the year Knighta. Don't slacken off, people have high expectations of you,

Thanks mate. Great work.

Slack off? Me? Never. I have too much fun doing this.

Mundy did have a slow start to his career and I have a similar feel also where he seemed like a late bloomer with some real durability who should still have productive years beyond the age of 30.

On Josh Thomas and Jarryd Blair it is a hard business and the game is increasingly more difficult for smalls unless they are absolute freak talents who can do things bigger guys just can't. There are some small forwards their height who are still doing it but for inside midfielders with limited skillsets and little ability to find it outside the contest they're ideally not best 22 players. They won't bring us in much currency but they're players I'm not seeing long term as best 22 players with the need now for players to either be absolutely elite specialists or being able to do everything to a high standard, of which neither really fit either category. Doesn't mean they can't play at AFL level and can't be productive for a team but for Collingwood with Taylor Adams a younger, slightly better version who similarly struggles by foot you don't want more than one of those in your best 22 so either/or/both could be tradeable if we can get a player of interest in a deal.

On this years draft. Particularly in that first half dozen there are a bunch of incredible quality talls with incredible versatility. Peter Wright as a key forward/ruckman and Sam Durdin as a key defender/key forward are the two best but Moore would be on potential among those next few.

On Moore he's more naturally a centre half forward so if he can develop into that, that's when we can look at another key forward who can play closer to goal. Is he a franchise quality talent? It's unclear. It's within his capabilities but he's even at TAC Cup level while he's playing well so far this season he's not yet dominating to a level where you can look at him and say with certainty that he'll be a franchise quality key forward but he's certainly looking like someone you can go forward with at one key post or another assuming good health and he develops as expected.

With talls forward and back my concern is in bringing in quality. I don't really care how many we have in reserve as long as we have close to the best key forwards and key defenders in each post and have our long term futures at each key post secured.
Of the current players Cloke and Reid are the definite class and you can lock them in. Moore if he develops would be a great addition to that core. Maybe one of Keeffe/Frost/Brown can improve to a level where we can no longer doubt their ability and maybe another high end key forward can come along somewhere. But the more tall quality we can bring in the better.

In any case with our list in the most part pretty secure we have a real opportunity over the next couple of seasons to early draft look go after the best talls to secure our long term future at those key posts.

 

[Shaneprice97]

I was having a read of the out of contract GCS thread(worth a look for yourself Knightmare) and they were mentioning a few players who they believe will leave the club, funnily enough 2 of there players who have interested me are Steven May and Jeremy Taylor were both mentioned a fair bit, as in that they are uncontracted and are possible to leave. May would be perfect for us as a 3rd tall defender who provides plenty of rebound and takes care of the 200cm forwards no worries(meaning he wont have any problems with the 3rd tall resting ruck, which is remarkable for a 190cm defender), he can also play as a number 1 key defender in the backline which he has done for each game this year. Jeremy Taylor is one i have already mentioned to you Knightmare, he could very well be stake knives in a deal that would try get us to bring May over.

 

[TradeDraft]

He's more a rookie selection.

Very raw. Can jump and has some reach so he can go up reasonably high for a ruck tap. He just lacks anything much else. He doesn't have the power or followup ability of some of those other athletic ruckman - think Naianui and Nicholls who can win their own ball and really drag it forward and make a difference with his tackling. Duom doesn't have that. Similarly he doesn't have the ability to go forward and have an influence or find it around the ground.

He's a project a club can rookie, but with his game very limited you wouldn't want to spend any more than that on him at this stage and I'm not sure he's the right fit for Collingwood with our need to go more after a veteran ruckman with Grundy and Witts as developing ruckmen plenty.

Then would he be different then Rooking a Tall Yank?

 

[blaze036]

I was having a read of the out of contract GCS thread(worth a look for yourself Knightmare) and they were mentioning a few players who they believe will leave the club, funnily enough 2 of there players who have interested me are Steven May and Jeremy Taylor were both mentioned a fair bit, as in that they are uncontracted and are possible to leave. May would be perfect for us as a 3rd tall defender who provides plenty of rebound and takes care of the 200cm forwards no worries(meaning he wont have any problems with the 3rd tall resting ruck, which is remarkable for a 190cm defender), he can also play as a number 1 key defender in the backline which he has done for each game this year. Jeremy Taylor is one i have already mentioned to you Knightmare, he could very well be stake knives in a deal that would try get us to bring May over.

May is becoming their number 1 key defender at the moment, expect a first round draft pick plus more to be GC's asking price

 

[Knightmare]

I was having a read of the out of contract GCS thread(worth a look for yourself Knightmare) and they were mentioning a few players who they believe will leave the club, funnily enough 2 of there players who have interested me are Steven May and Jeremy Taylor were both mentioned a fair bit, as in that they are uncontracted and are possible to leave. May would be perfect for us as a 3rd tall defender who provides plenty of rebound and takes care of the 200cm forwards no worries(meaning he wont have any problems with the 3rd tall resting ruck, which is remarkable for a 190cm defender), he can also play as a number 1 key defender in the backline which he has done for each game this year. Jeremy Taylor is one i have already mentioned to you Knightmare, he could very well be stake knives in a deal that would try get us to bring May over.

They're not names that surprise me but neither really fit our needs.

Down back we've got plenty of third talls and what you're proposing with May, Scharenberg can himself do. He's played on and beaten key forwards but will give you a much better rebounding punch and while he hasn't played yet I expect he'll all things said and done be the better footballer going off what he achieved as a junior against senior SANFL talent and through the u18s.

May is useful because he's a big body and can play both ends pretty well and to an AFL standard and with that physical bulk and strength he has it helps. I'm just not convinced at his height that he's a long term piece for our team with no player as with Taylor that he'd clearly play ahead of.

That and Gold Coast aren't giving May up for free. Given he's a regular and going ok he'll probably set you back a first round selection which this year would mean no Moore.

Then would he be different then Rooking a Tall Yank?

The advantage with an American ruckman is they can fit as category two rookies - not taking up one of the four category one rookies as Duom would.

 

[Shaneprice97]

They're not names that surprise me but neither really fit our needs.

Down back we've got plenty of third talls and what you're proposing with May, Scharenberg can himself do. He's played on and beaten key forwards but will give you a much better rebounding punch and while he hasn't played yet I expect he'll all things said and done be the better footballer going off what he achieved as a junior against senior SANFL talent and through the u18s.

May is useful because he's a big body and can play both ends pretty well and to an AFL standard and with that physical bulk and strength he has it helps. I'm just not convinced at his height that he's a long term piece for our team with no player as with Taylor that he'd clearly play ahead of.

That and Gold Coast aren't giving May up for free. Given he's a regular he'll probably set you back a first round selection which this year would mean no Moore.



The advantage with an American ruckman is they can fit as category two rookies - not taking up one of the four category one rookies as Duom would.

There arent really many GCS players who fill our needs, mostly due to fact there arent many uncontracted at seasons end.

Scharenberg played wouldnt be able to play 3rd tall straight away either i wouldnt think, hes about 5 kilos away i would say. One thing i remember Scharenberg do at under 18's level is give Jon Marsh a massive towling.

 

[forwardflanker]

My 2014 best 22s.


Best 22 (Fully healthy)
B: Alan Toovey Lachlan Keeffe Marley Williams
HB: Matthew Scharenberg Nathan Brown Nick Maxwell
CEN: Clinton Young Brent Macaffer Heritier Lumumba
HF: Steele Sidebottom Jesse White Dane Swan
F: Ben Reid Travis Cloke Luke Ball
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Dayne Beams
BENCH: Paul Seedsman Tom Langdon Jamie Elliott Taylor Adams
*Sub to be rotated.

VFL:
B: Ben Sinclair Jack Frost Adam Oxley
HB: Alex Fasolo Quinten Lynch Peter Yagmoor
CEN: Patrick Karnezis Nathan Freeman Jackson Ramsay
HF: Sam Dwyer Corey Gault Kyle Martin
F: Tyson Goldsack Jonathon Marsh Ben Kennedy
FOLL: Jarrod Witts Tim Broomhead Josh Thomas
BENCH: Jarryd Blair Caolan Mooney Ben Hudson Marty Clarke Tony Armstrong
*Note: VFL players left out intentionally to demonstrate the list balance of the AFL squad.

Out: Langdon, Brown or Keefe (I like Keefe better tbh), and Scharenberg.

In: Fasolo, Frost, Thomas.

imp the great difference between us and opposition teams of recent seasons has been how poor we have been rebounding off half back. Of the 6 you listed only Scharenberg is above average AFL kick (and this is his first season), the rest are below average or average at best. I love guys like Williams and Toovey and think they're great 1v1 defenders but I wonder how many of them you can carry off half back. Fasolo is best 22 as a forward flanker, the fact they think he is also good enough to produce in the back half makes him even more valuable. I expect him to remain in the 22 for the rest of the year regardless of who comes back from injury. I also think Sinclair is probably best 22 but I'd be in the minority in that respect.

Frost is the best shutdown defender in the side at the moment, his form speaks for itself imo.

I really rate Thomas and there is no way he is not in our best 22 imo. I think you underrate both his ability in clearances and his ability on the spread. His kicking is a weakness but I expect that it will improve with time. I'm not concerned with his height because (a) he has good pace (b) he reads the ball off hands very well and (c) he has exceptionally clean hands. Even if he doesn't warrant a spot as a full time midfielder, he is pretty valuable as a forward flanker/ part time mid because he does provide very good defensive pressure and is a natural crumber - something we are short in atm. I rate him as the best of our younger midfielders tbh.

 

[Jasper84]

If we are trying to get players from other clubs at the end of the year, I think it should only be through draft of free agency. We have shown with our constant bad runs with injuries that we are going to need to call on the players that we are talking about trading away. Not to mention, I would like that the VFL team has plenty of players who have played together and know what to do if they get they get the call up (see Geelong/Box Hill). We have reached a point where I feel we have enough kids and need to develop them before bringing in more 18 year olds (Moore excluded as we need a young KPF).

 

[jmac70]

There are some seriously long posts in this thread.

 

[Shaneprice97]

There are some seriously long posts in this thread.

You must be unaware of the Almanac then Jmac, its basically a group of us Collingwood supporters writing book-length posts on a cool named thread ran by Knightmare about list changes, coaching, best 22 ect ect.

 

[jmac70]

You must be unaware of the Almanac then Jmac, its basically a group of us Collingwood supporters writing book-length posts on a cool named thread ran by Knightmare about list changes, coaching, best 22 ect ect.