Collingwood Almanac 2014

[Lefthanded]

Just on Daniher's bid, IMO, it was skewed by Hogan and Martin being available in the mini draft.

Take Those two out and I'm confident he's bid on top 4. I would be shocked if the deals to lock those two boys in weren't agreed upon in September because they were knocked over very early in the trade period. GC and Melbourne knowing they have Martin and Hogan locked away respectively needn't have bothered with bidding.

With those two clubs out it leaves only GWS (who obviously preferred Whitfield) and the Bulldogs to pass. I'm taking Whitfield first myself over Daniher so 7 makes sense to me.

FWIW on a side note 7 appears right for Daniher now anyway. Having it over again I'm going Macrae, Whitfield, Wines, Mayes, Stringer, Broomhead (only this low due to games played), Daniher, Grundy as my top 8, but that's just me and doesn't have much relevance to Moore lol.

Will be very happy if we end up with something like 6&8 from that draft, especially as we paid two picks in late teens.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I'd enquire about all of Cameron, Boyd and Patton.

I'd also be asking about Tomlinson, McCarthy, Jaksch and Stewart to see if any of them can be had.

Never hurts to ask. Just looks unlikely any of those talls are going anywhere at this point until there are some substantial rumours that GWS are going to make aggressive moves and involve particularly guys in a trade or a few of those talls request a trade back to their home states.

They wont deal on any of the former 3 of that am pretty sure.
Of the 2nd group Carlton are well into Jaksch who I think is good but he may end up staying.
Tomlinson I rate but I think he could also be had. Not sure what role he'd play for us and the other two are a long way off. I'd look at McCarthy but they are grooming him as a back.
Just not sure we are going to need key backs as Keefe (who Buckley seems committed to) and Brown and Frost I think you have the core there with possibly Reid or Moore also able to go back.
Its probably the young key fwds I'm keener on and given not sold on Moore as a fwd (despite his great showing at SS) and jury out on Gault then I'd be looking for one at some stage but I suspect it will be later than earlier.
Reason i say this is Buckley is talking more about speed than fwd height as priorities.
I'd be pretty sure a kid with genuine speed (eg Gartlett) would be looked at in the 2nd round of the draft if they couldnt find a trade to deliver it. One kid I would look at is Liam Sumner from GWS. He is v quick and has been strugglign to get a game despite going pretty well for UWS.Sam Blease another one.

 

[Lefthanded]

Of the 2nd group Carlton are well into Jaksch who I think is good but he may end up staying.

I wasn't aware of this but if true is it likely to take a player or Blues 1st pick? (Can't imagine GWS would want anything less given their abundance of 1st rounders, although if he wants out than probably have to accept unders).

 

[Bay Pie]

Unfortunately I think you are right, I checked where Luke McDonald was bid and he was at 6, forcing Roos to take at 8. That McDonald was bid at 6 when lower rated than Danniher backs your opinion. Will see where we finish and then see what happens. If 7 then still some chance as you've mentioned 4 + Durdin & Lever as possibles.

I've heard West Coast thought Scharenberg would be gone by pick 6 and didn't rate Bontempelli as high as other clubs,hence bidding for McDonald. That is the inherent risk right there when bidding in October as Frankie has metioned below. If it was a live draft with bidding occuring a the sametime, WCE would have taken Scharenberg rather then bid on McDonald.

Agree with this, and I think this is an overlooked aspect of the bidding system.

Say we get pick 8, will clubs really want to lock in a kid at picks 5,6 or 7 in early October, when there's still a whole trade period to come, and the fact they don't get that extra time to interview other kids, potentially get a slider or bolter ala Bontempelli last year...

It is not that unrealistic anymore that Moore could go for a second rounder (I still think we will have to spend a first round pick btw)

Exactly. In October, where as Bontempelli rated ? From the AFL sites etc he was only an outside chance at top 10 at that point in time.

The top 4 picks would be out and to me it's down to 2 teams, the cheats and Bulldogs with picks 5 & 6. I'm very confident carlton will take a midfielder. Their own arrogance will continue to think they are a chance at a flag and you know Malthouse will push for it soon, so he keeps his job. He wont be keen on picking a kid who'll most likely be coming of age when he's no longer there. The Bulldogs are the main danger, but if they have pick 5, instead of 6, they may be hesitant to bid considering what happened with their guy, Bontempelli.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I wasn't aware of this but if true is it likely to take a player or Blues 1st pick? (Can't imagine GWS would want anything less given their abundance of 1st rounders, although if he wants out than probably have to accept unders).

Yeah I am not sure how Blues would plan to get a deal done bc I just dont think they have a lot to offer but you have to hand it to them they picked up Docherty and Everitt last year and I said at the time I reckon they've done well. was surprised we didnt go harder at Docherty given his price as he was a terrific junior off HB and very calm and poised. Also got enough speed.

Carlton get deals done so wouldnt put it past them. Would they offer Kruezer as a way of getting the deal done. Maybe saying we will stick with Warnock and Wood and give up Kreuzer. I would be surprised if they put him up but he is the only thing with currency they have outside of their first pick.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I think it is going to be a somewhat duller than expected trade period for us. I think a lot of expectations are that we will be very active considering the output this year. However I think it may be more a year of consolidating. We have limited trade value on our list, certainly nothing that will net us a 1st round pick without giving up an very good experienced player (like Sidebottom) - the type we desperately need to hold given our inexperienced list.

We have needs but they are not as bad as some make out. It really will be a matter of seeing what is available and if it suits our needs at that point - whether that is free agency or a trade target. Frawley is the wild card I guess but am still not interested in over paying for him and prefer we save our pennies for a Dane Swan replacement next year in free agency.

I think we may move on some fringe type players if there is a carrot at the end of it for us. I would be interested in Melbourne's second round pick - forget their priority or first pick. They have advertised they are prepared to trade picks for experience and we have Blair & Lumumba who fit that mould, possibly even Josh Thomas. For me Lumumba is going to be pushed out of the mids and question marks hang over his ability to return to a defender role. I think he would serve Melbourne really well. If Frawley does leave Melbourne may have 3 first round picks and would part with their second rounder.

I want us to keep exploring decent depth players - guys who can rise from VFL and play AFL when required. We have seen a lack of depth in some key areas. Another key defender (think Hooker), some genuine small forwards (Ahmed Saad/J. Garlett) who can hit the scoreboard and of course another experienced ruckman to replace Hudson. I really think we should look at Dean Cox as a ruck coach - throw some cash at him, whether playing or not. Developing Witts/Grundy is a priority.

I think we have had a few too many "experimental" players that never quite get there and they take away our depth potential. Sure some are worth a punt but how many actually have paid off. I do have high hopes for Marsh, but he is actually a footballer, not an Irish/American/athlete that is starting from scratch. I do realise that some of these punts do come from finishing high on the ladder and having limited options...but that seems not to be the case now so we can access more reliable talent.

 

[Lefthanded]

I've heard West Coast thought Scharenberg would be gone by pick 6 and didn't rate Bontempelli as high as other clubs,hence bidding for McDonald. That is the inherent risk right there when bidding in October as Frankie has metioned below. If it was a live draft with bidding occuring a the sametime, WCE would have taken Scharenberg rather then bid on McDonald.


Exactly. In October, where as Bontempelli rated ? From the AFL sites etc he was only an outside chance at top 10 at that point in time.

The top 4 picks would be out an to me it's down to 2 teams, the cheats and Bulldogs with picks 5 & 6. I'm very confident carlton will take a midfielder. Their own arrogance will continue to think they are a chance at a flag and you know Malthouse will push for it soon, so he keeps his job. He wont be keen on picking a kid who'll most likely be coming of age when he's no longer there. The Bulldogs are the main danger, but if they have pick 5, instead of 6, they may be hesitant to bid considering what happened with their guy, Bontempelli.

Excellent point on MM likely process, hope you are right! Dogs probably lose to Swans but beat GWS in Melb. We therefore would need Blues to beat Port (away) or Essendon.

 

[Couch Coach]

Reason i say this is Buckley is talking more about speed than fwd height as priorities.
I'd be pretty sure a kid with genuine speed (eg Gartlett) would be looked at in the 2nd round of the draft if they couldnt find a trade to deliver it. One kid I would look at is Liam Sumner from GWS. He is v quick and has been strugglign to get a game despite going pretty well for UWS.Sam Blease another one.

Snoop,

With reference to Speed and height what is your opinion on:
- Dean Towers (Sydney)
- Gary Rohan (Sydney)

CC

 

[TradeDraft]

They wont deal on any of the former 3 of that am pretty sure.
Of the 2nd group Carlton are well into Jaksch who I think is good but he may end up staying.
Tomlinson I rate but I think he could also be had. Not sure what role he'd play for us and the other two are a long way off. I'd look at McCarthy but they are grooming him as a back.
Just not sure we are going to need key backs as Keefe (who Buckley seems committed to) and Brown and Frost I think you have the core there with possibly Reid or Moore also able to go back.
Its probably the young key fwds I'm keener on and given not sold on Moore as a fwd (despite his great showing at SS) and jury out on Gault then I'd be looking for one at some stage but I suspect it will be later than earlier.
Reason i say this is Buckley is talking more about speed than fwd height as priorities.
I'd be pretty sure a kid with genuine speed (eg Gartlett) would be looked at in the 2nd round of the draft if they couldnt find a trade to deliver it. One kid I would look at is Liam Sumner from GWS. He is v quick and has been strugglign to get a game despite going pretty well for UWS.Sam Blease another one.

Have you heard Snoop who the Pies are into?

 

[Collingwood pro]

Hey Knightmare what do you think about getting Zac Clarke from Fremantle.

 

[TradeDraft]

Hey Knightmare what do you think about getting Zac Clarke from Fremantle.

0%

Be more chance chasing Hannath or Griffin

 

[Knightmare]

Out of interest Knight where is Aidan Anderson falling in your eyes?

He was quite eye catching in both live games that I saw from WA v Metro & Country at the champs, but the query I had is what's he got that takes him to another level in a professional environment?

For instance is he a Robbie Gray type that has that little bit of magic and when added to good core strength and ability overhead he becomes a fwd/ mid threat or is he an Andrew Hooper that what you see now is what you get? Because he does already have that solid base behind him at 83kg.

My gut feel (from the draft boards) is that he's viewed as the negligible development type and is underrated. I've generally taken the view that if you build him up core wise he's got that elusiveness to add something to our front half because he's already contributing for Swan Districts at senior level.

For those not all that familiar with him.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc...ID=56335&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=30898698

There's no denying that he has a nose for goals based on those junior numbers!

On Garlett and McKenzie too I think they're generally a bit underrated ATM despite my earlier comments. Both have significant tricks that will entice recruiters so my concern is that even moving into the top 20 may not be enough. I'd agree that Pickett and Goddard are perfectly viable options as well (though I'm still leaning towards Pickett lacking polish)!

Aidan Anderson could fall into the 3rd round. I agree with your assessment that he's looking underrated. He could be the equivalent of Alex Fasolo this year. He's got front half talent, is playing WAFL seniors and has the performances on the board. He's just not getting spoken about as much as he should.
He's not Robbie Gray good but he's much more talented than Hooper. Anderson is averaging nearly 11 disposals per game and 1 goal which for a junior is pretty good for WAFL seniors.

Garlett and McKenzie you're also definitely right on. Garlett is a first round quality prospect being spoken about as a second or third rounder at this stage. McKenzie in my mind is a clear top 10, maybe top 5 quality pick and is being spoken about as a second rounder.

Garlett not only has the pace and skills but also the production which is why he's so good.

McKenzie is excellent because he's big, tall but producing and improving in a hurry. He's the second most productive key forward in the TAC from a mark, contested mark and goalkicking standpoint after McCartin so he's big time. He's the closest thing to Cloke running around in the TAC and you'd love to have him to build around. It's only a matter of time until people take their evaluations of McKenzie from second round to top 10.

Just on Daniher's bid, IMO, it was skewed by Hogan and Martin being available in the mini draft.

Take Those two out and I'm confident he's bid on top 4. I would be shocked if the deals to lock those two boys in weren't agreed upon in September because they were knocked over very early in the trade period. GC and Melbourne knowing they have Martin and Hogan locked away respectively needn't have bothered with bidding.

With those two clubs out it leaves only GWS (who obviously preferred Whitfield) and the Bulldogs to pass. I'm taking Whitfield first myself over Daniher so 7 makes sense to me.

FWIW on a side note 7 appears right for Daniher now anyway. Having it over again I'm going Macrae, Whitfield, Wines, Mayes, Stringer, Broomhead (only this low due to games played), Daniher, Grundy as my top 8, but that's just me and doesn't have much relevance to Moore lol.

Don't sleep on Daniher. Talls take longer but he's shown some signs and he's got a real chance to develop into a monster. Watch for those third, fourth, fifth and sixth seasons and the way he develops in those seasons.

I wouldn't put it past Daniher to become better than all of Macrae, Whitfield, Wines Mayes, Stringer and Broomhead.

 

[Scodog10]

Will be very happy if we end up with something like 6&8 from that draft, especially as we paid two picks in late teens.

We did quite well, IMO, but the Bulldogs absolutely nailed it! Macrae and Stringer are big time, Hrovat looks the equal of Kennedy and Hunter is a very very likely type!

 

[Knightmare]

They wont deal on any of the former 3 of that am pretty sure.
Of the 2nd group Carlton are well into Jaksch who I think is good but he may end up staying.
Tomlinson I rate but I think he could also be had. Not sure what role he'd play for us and the other two are a long way off. I'd look at McCarthy but they are grooming him as a back.
Just not sure we are going to need key backs as Keefe (who Buckley seems committed to) and Brown and Frost I think you have the core there with possibly Reid or Moore also able to go back.
Its probably the young key fwds I'm keener on and given not sold on Moore as a fwd (despite his great showing at SS) and jury out on Gault then I'd be looking for one at some stage but I suspect it will be later than earlier.
Reason i say this is Buckley is talking more about speed than fwd height as priorities.
I'd be pretty sure a kid with genuine speed (eg Gartlett) would be looked at in the 2nd round of the draft if they couldnt find a trade to deliver it. One kid I would look at is Liam Sumner from GWS. He is v quick and has been strugglign to get a game despite going pretty well for UWS.Sam Blease another one.

I'm more the advocate of bringing in quality height this year, say Moore and then get another first round pick to secure McKenzie who would be my preference. But after the first round with presumably Moore I think you'll be proven right that the club will look for outside pace. We're so inside oriented with all the inside only midfielders and we're so slow with our ball movement that I see some significant spice being introduced.

Sumner and Blease don't excite me a whole lot. Sumner still has the chance to make it but Blease just isn't an AFL footballer. He's talented and had a good month of June in the VFL but his production, two way running, strength over the ball and want is lacking and not up to AFL standard. Have seen enough on Blease for long enough to be firm on that evaluation.

There will be guys late or rookie draft who will be options and I imagine on Collingwood's radar. Cunico if he slides could be an option. Erin Wasley-Black who was overlooked last year I really like. Garlett if he slides into the second round would be the pick of the bunch in our position I would have thought with his speed/endurance/skill and production. We've got options.

Jeff Garlett through trade though as a forward is another who presumably will be available and given his past production is someone else who can help us.

I think it is going to be a somewhat duller than expected trade period for us. I think a lot of expectations are that we will be very active considering the output this year. However I think it may be more a year of consolidating. We have limited trade value on our list, certainly nothing that will net us a 1st round pick without giving up an very good experienced player (like Sidebottom) - the type we desperately need to hold given our inexperienced list.

We have needs but they are not as bad as some make out. It really will be a matter of seeing what is available and if it suits our needs at that point - whether that is free agency or a trade target. Frawley is the wild card I guess but am still not interested in over paying for him and prefer we save our pennies for a Dane Swan replacement next year in free agency.

I think we may move on some fringe type players if there is a carrot at the end of it for us. I would be interested in Melbourne's second round pick - forget their priority or first pick. They have advertised they are prepared to trade picks for experience and we have Blair & Lumumba who fit that mould, possibly even Josh Thomas. For me Lumumba is going to be pushed out of the mids and question marks hang over his ability to return to a defender role. I think he would serve Melbourne really well. If Frawley does leave Melbourne may have 3 first round picks and would part with their second rounder.

I want us to keep exploring decent depth players - guys who can rise from VFL and play AFL when required. We have seen a lack of depth in some key areas. Another key defender (think Hooker), some genuine small forwards (Ahmed Saad/J. Garlett) who can hit the scoreboard and of course another experienced ruckman to replace Hudson. I really think we should look at Dean Cox as a ruck coach - throw some cash at him, whether playing or not. Developing Witts/Grundy is a priority.

I think we have had a few too many "experimental" players that never quite get there and they take away our depth potential. Sure some are worth a punt but how many actually have paid off. I do have high hopes for Marsh, but he is actually a footballer, not an Irish/American/athlete that is starting from scratch. I do realise that some of these punts do come from finishing high on the ladder and having limited options...but that seems not to be the case now so we can access more reliable talent.

You'd move Blair, Lumumba or Josh Thomas anyday for Melbourne's second round pick but any of them or any combination of them would be more likely to attract their third round pick.

Collingwood only have the one part timer looking at opposition talents for the list management team so it's not something we're in position to do to the level of some other clubs which explains why we've performed worse than most in trades for these types, given we put less resources into evaluation of opposition list talents.

If you want a key defender Hugh Goddard should be your man. He's a nice height and size and has the athleticism. He'll beat his guy 1v1 and stick with them on the lead and in the air. But then he's also a relatively good rebounder and not a liability by foot as so many of our current key defenders are (Frost and Marsh specifically. Moore would be another if used down back though to a lesser extent).

On experimental players. I don't think we've gone after enough to be honest. We're very moneyball if anything and have taken few real chances. We tend to draft guys with the performances on the board. The only chances we've taken recently are Caolan Mooney as an Irish rookie, Shae McNamara, Ben Richmond and Mason Cox. As category 2 rookies under the current system it's a bonus if they make it, but if they don't nothing is lost as they don't take up senior or even your normal category 1 rookie position. I'd be going after another few category 2 rookies if we can identify some guys personally.

Hey Knightmare what do you think about getting Zac Clarke from Fremantle.

Don't feel Clarke would help us a great deal. He's youngish and is too similar with the age group of our current ruckmen. Not an elite forward. Not an elite ruckman. Just a mid level ruckman who can play some forward but not to a dominant level.

The best get would in my view be Dean Cox (not that it's happening) but he's an elite ruckman who can win you finals but then also if we want to play Witts or Grundy co-exist as he's also a dominant forward. Jon Giles is another example of the type of ruckmen who would help us as while he adds good ruck depth he's also a guy up forward who can really draw the ball and take a grab. For the benefit of Cloke that's the type of ruckman we need if we do look to add someone further.

Mitch Clark in the unusual scenario he came back would be another example of a great get given he can provide that ruck depth if required but also enhance the best 22 as a key forward who like Giles and Cox can draw the ball and take a grab up forward again making Cloke's job easier.

Any guys of those three (Cox/Clark/Giles) would as ruckmen elevate our team greatly in the immediate.

 

[Knightmare]

Just want to ask you what your thoughts are with davoren, should we persevere or find another guru? I believe that the players have been doing far too much endurance and this is the reason for so many soft tissue injuries.
Also with the new father son rules possibly coming in, just say a club nominates moore with a pick directly after our own, would that mean we would likely need to give up our second and third round picks to get him, i think this would still be a good outcome for us and if that did eventuate who would you have going to the pies if we ended up with say a pick 8?

Davoren hasn't had a successful start when you look at the injury situation with all the soft tissue injuries, injuries to key players and the significant drop off of the performances of the young players over the second half of the season. It's up to the club to figure out whether Davoren is the man for the job.
It seems to me a combination of both fitness and medical staff needing to work on and perhaps look at some new practices. My recommendation is do some research and implement what the Phoenix Suns in the NBA do - re. injury prevention.

If no club with a pick before our first round pick bid on Moore then we can get him second round. It's against the odds even if we lose both of our remaining games but it's obviously the best case scenario.

 

[rustyg70]

Mitch Clark in the unusual scenario he came back would be another example of a great get given he can provide that ruck depth if required but also enhance the best 22 as a key forward who like Giles and Cox can draw the ball and take a grab up forward again making Cloke's job easier.
.

I wouldn't count on him coming back to the AFL at the moment or ever.
He is a good friend of one of my mates and is in a good place at the moment.
He is surrounded by his family and friends.
I don't think the pressure of playing at the highest level of footy again would be very good for his progression through his troubles.

 

[Knightmare]

I wouldn't count on him coming back to the AFL at the moment or ever.
He is a good friend of one of my mates and is in a good place at the moment.
He is surrounded by his family and friends.
I don't think the pressure of playing at the highest level of footy again would be very good for his progression through his troubles.

I'm more outlining a template of the type who could help us but I concede. You are right. Inside info or not it's highly against the odds he's coming back until there are some strong rumours that he's looking at it.

In the real world Giles is the only of my three proposed ruck solutions who is any real chance of being available.

 

[soreplums]

KM, Do you think that the Blues and Dogs may consider Goddard with their first round pick? The blues may even opt for a classy midfielder if available over a tall. I can see them moving on Warnock for pick if they are satisfied with the Wood/Kreuzer combo

 

[Knightmare]

KM, Do you think that the Blues and Dogs may consider Goddard with their first round pick? The blues may even opt for a classy midfielder if available over a tall. I can see them moving on Warnock for pick if they are satisfied with the Wood/Kreuzer combo

Goddard is more likely to go somewhere around pick 20 unless he really closes out the season strongly.

Carlton may trade Warnock but they're not getting more than a second round selection for him.

Carlton need a number of things. Just with the quality of talls this year it's hard to see them skipping on Durdin, Lever, Marchbank or McKenzie if he rises up draft boards as I anticipate.

 

[TradeDraft]

[QUOTE="Knightmare, post: 34639181, member: 105307”]Don't sleep on Daniher. Talls take longer but he's shown some signs and he's got a real chance to develop into a monster. Watch for those third, fourth, fifth and sixth seasons and the way he develops in those seasons.

I wouldn't put it past Daniher to become better than all of Macrae, Whitfield, Wines Mayes, Stringer and Broomhead.[/QUOTE]

Moore I found is similar to Daniher in his body. Still Quite Skinny but with a Ton of Upside to come

 

[soreplums]

Goddard is more likely to go somewhere around pick 20 unless he really closes out the season strongly.

Carlton need a number of things. Just with the quality of talls this year it's hard to see them skipping on Durdin, Lever, Marchbank or McKenzie if he rises up draft boards as I anticipate.

Does this mean that they may pass on Moore?

 

[Knightmare]

Does this mean that they may pass on Moore?

It's optimistic thinking to think Carlton pass on Moore.

Firmly against the odds until it happens.

 

[soreplums]

It's optimistic thinking to think Carlton pass on Moore.

Firmly against the odds until it happens.

So you rate Moore ahead of the other talls you mentioned?

 

[Knightmare]

So you rate Moore ahead of the other talls you mentioned?

I slightly prefer Moore to the other talls - Durdin is a similar level talent but hasn't had a great season and McKenzie is more dominant but does less things well and hasn't even been spoken about as a genuine first round selection yet.

The suggestions have been though that AFL clubs prefer Moore which is more critical than my opinion.

 

[Scodog10]

I think it is going to be a somewhat duller than expected trade period for us. I think a lot of expectations are that we will be very active considering the output this year. However I think it may be more a year of consolidating. We have limited trade value on our list, certainly nothing that will net us a 1st round pick without giving up an very good experienced player (like Sidebottom) - the type we desperately need to hold given our inexperienced list.

We have needs but they are not as bad as some make out. It really will be a matter of seeing what is available and if it suits our needs at that point - whether that is free agency or a trade target. Frawley is the wild card I guess but am still not interested in over paying for him and prefer we save our pennies for a Dane Swan replacement next year in free agency.

I think we may move on some fringe type players if there is a carrot at the end of it for us. I would be interested in Melbourne's second round pick - forget their priority or first pick. They have advertised they are prepared to trade picks for experience and we have Blair & Lumumba who fit that mould, possibly even Josh Thomas. For me Lumumba is going to be pushed out of the mids and question marks hang over his ability to return to a defender role. I think he would serve Melbourne really well. If Frawley does leave Melbourne may have 3 first round picks and would part with their second rounder.

I want us to keep exploring decent depth players - guys who can rise from VFL and play AFL when required. We have seen a lack of depth in some key areas. Another key defender (think Hooker), some genuine small forwards (Ahmed Saad/J. Garlett) who can hit the scoreboard and of course another experienced ruckman to replace Hudson. I really think we should look at Dean Cox as a ruck coach - throw some cash at him, whether playing or not. Developing Witts/Grundy is a priority.

I think we have had a few too many "experimental" players that never quite get there and they take away our depth potential. Sure some are worth a punt but how many actually have paid off. I do have high hopes for Marsh, but he is actually a footballer, not an Irish/American/athlete that is starting from scratch. I do realise that some of these punts do come from finishing high on the ladder and having limited options...but that seems not to be the case now so we can access more reliable talent.

I agree with much of your post, but I just wanted to touch on the bolded section.

I'm pretty strong with my view on this. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result!

We don't assess AFL talent at other clubs well at all so let's please avoid that and stick to what we do the best and that's the draft