Analysis Collingwood Almanac 2015

[TradeDraft]

We probably need one more x factor mid, but again that could be freeman, and broomhead should also develop into a star. Id love a cyril rioli type though.

Callum Ah Chee is a Rioli Type and I would love for the Pies to Draft him as he would give the Team so real X-Factor

 

[TradeDraft]

10 + Frost??

Would you do it?

They need a defender more than they need a forward IF they keep dixon

Well I said they could easily ask for someone as good as Cloke but that won’t Happen.

I just don’t think a trade is even Possible. We might be able to get a Pick around the 5-7 Range

 

[Scodog10]

Well I said they could easily ask for someone as good as Cloke but that won’t Happen.

I just don’t think a trade is even Possible. We might be able to get a Pick around the 5-7 Range

You might be overlooking the Keays and Aish factor with Brisbane. Depending on what happens with Dixon downgrading their first rounder to get value for Keyes might come into play rather than upgrading their second rounder.

Let's say Aish goes and his currency is used to bring Dixon on board. In that case the need to have that real high end selection could be lessened for the right price. Because Keyes, Frost and Dixon for Aish and 3 might be more appealing than Dixon for Aish and a struggle to get the points required for Keays.

Just spitballing though because I can't see Brisbane parting with their past 3 top 10 selections in the space of two years.

 

[TradeDraft]

Jack Riewoldt has Re-Commited to Ninethmond

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-...-agency-mix-after-signing-threeyear-extension

 

[RGpies]

Have you seen maynards most recent vfl game knightmare? Interested to hear your opinion on probably his best game yet. Also any other standouts for you?

 

[TradeDraft]

Have you seen maynards most recent vfl game knightmare? Interested to hear your opinion on probably his best game yet. Also any other standouts for you?

I am waiting for Knightmare to give his VFL Report for this weekends game

 

[Knightmare]

I think the only glaring deficiency on the list is a second tall forward. White is holding up ok but wont stand up in finals. He just wont beat good defenders.

Darcy Moore is looking really good so perhaps the answer is already on the list.

Id like to think we have a crack at charlie dixon but discipline and the offers from brisbane will likely rule us out.

Otherwise i think we can make a play for pick 1 if the suns can somehow re sign dixon. They have day, dixon and lynch so dont need another tall, and it sounds like the best 2 players at the draft are talls...plus they recruited wright last year.

Perhaps putting our first round pick (probably 10-12) and a guy like oxley (former qld boy) might get them thinking. Do they really need another draft pick?? Id even seriously consider trading frost as we have Marsh and Brown to play full back, and moore can be a great defender too. That could give us a look at pick 1 to get the gun KPF we need.

The other thing we need to do is really working on grundy as a forward option. He is such a physical presence but doesnt take enough marks. Im sure he has it in him. If grundy can play forward along with darcy moore, and witts rucks 70% then we may not need to worry about a KPF.

We probably need one more x factor mid, but again that could be freeman, and broomhead should also develop into a star. Id love a cyril rioli type though.

I agree with you certainly that second key forward is the more glaring deficiency on the list. Moore could be the answer, maybe Reid if he can get healthy. But with Cloke nearing 30, while he hopefully can play to 33-35, that next guy still needs to be introduced as soon as a strong option can be identified and added to the list.

I would also add on the wings we lack good or enough options.

Then we're a star midfielder short even with Pendlebury/Swan/Sidebottom. Crisp has gone well this season. Some will like Greenwood/Adams. De Goey is showing promise and will be good. But it's just that one further out and out star short.

You are likely right about Dixon. Offers will be outrageous. Clubs will offer big money, high picks. He can play and is better this season. But with his poor durability and being more a good but not great key forward (never even played 15 games in a season to this point in his career) and only mild production (never had 50 marks or 25 goals in a season, albeit in limited games). I wouldn't be willing to exceed some of the offers he will likely receive from other clubs. But the feel is Gold Coast for the right offer are willing to move Dixon, perhaps Brisbane put forward a big offer and find a three way trade involving James Aish in some kind of three way trade.

Our first round pick and Oxley would be lucky to move our first round pick up a few positions. By saying that I'm less putting down what Oxley has been able to accomplish as much as clubs with those first round picks. Particularly inside the top 3. They just don't give it away. And when they do. It's an elite player. Not a depth or bottom or low best 22 player as Oxley realistically is. And same story, if we add a Brown or Marsh to the trade. Maybe if a club really needs a key defender, they'll allow us to move 3-4 positions up in the first round. But otherwise they'd hold onto their pick.

Grundy like Witts does need that extra string to his bow to make it work. Can he be a forward? Can he pinch-hit on the ball. Both? They're both so terrific through the ruck, but we do need to get them doing other things for them long term to co-exist as Naitanui and Cox were able to achieve.

 

[Knightmare]

Callum Ah Chee is a Rioli Type and I would love for the Pies to Draft him as he would give the Team so real X-Factor

Ah Chee is ok and around our pick range could be a consideration.

If we're looking for an indigenous talent while all the hype has been for Ah Chee, I feel Milera is better the more I watch him. Late first round he feels like someone who could really be a great get. If you want x-factor. He is the guy I'm recommending outside the top 10 of those who surely will be available.

Partington and Ryan Clark also are terrific and if they fall would be terrific gets.

Have you seen maynards most recent vfl game knightmare? Interested to hear your opinion on probably his best game yet. Also any other standouts for you?

I have yet to have seen the most recent Collingwood VFL game, having watched the u18 champs on the weekend instead.

Hopefully over the coming days or on the weekend I'll find the time around work to catchup on the game.

I have heard from a number of people that Maynard impressed so that's a positive that I'll be looking out for.

 

[TradeDraft]

Cloke at 29 next year you think he has no more then 4 years Left/

Showing why we need to get young KPF’s into the Club

 

[TradeDraft]

Partington and Ryan Clark also are terrific and if they fall would be terrific gets

Parington does sound like a Intresting Prospect. Said he is a Excellent User of the Ball and has will Footy Smarts.

Don’t know a Ton about Clark

 

[Knightmare]

Cloke at 29 next year you think he has no more then 4 years Left/

Showing why we need to get young KPF’s into the Club

I wouldn't be so quick to write Cloke off. Nick Riewoldt and Matthew Pavlich as key forwards are still going around. His father was still going around in his mid 30s. Key forwards if they're good can have better longetivity than many of the mids.

My expectation of Cloke is at 33/34 he is still running around. He may not have the same durability or as extremely strong performance. But he should still be there I predict four years and possibly five years from now.

 

[Collingwood pro]

Knightmare whats your thoughts on Karl Stefonovic, has improved a little I mean he can pick up a footy now, sort of. Reckon he would fit in with Gold Coast has the right history for them.

 

[Bard]

Knightmare whats your thoughts on Karl Stefonovic, has improved a little I mean he can pick up a footy now, sort of. Reckon he would fit in with Gold Coast has the right history for them.

I'd have thought they'd look for that Ben Cousins bloke first.

Or Daniel Kerr.

Or just the entire 2006 WCE side.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare whats your thoughts on Karl Stefonovic, has improved a little I mean he can pick up a footy now, sort of. Reckon he would fit in with Gold Coast has the right history for them.

Gold Coast do seem to need all the numbers they can get.

But anyone can look good in these EJ Whitten Legends game.

The Russell Robertson leaps are impressive though.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare whats your thoughts on Karl Stefonovic, has improved a little I mean he can pick up a footy now, sort of. Reckon he would fit in with Gold Coast has the right history for them.

Gold Coast do seem to need all the numbers they can get.

But anyone can look good in these EJ Whitten Legends game.

The Russell Robertson leaps are impressive though.

A number of these guys still have some of their old tricks.

Next up perhaps we'll see a long Rocca goal.

 

[soreplums]

I've liked Goldy for us this year down back, but would he packaged with our first rounder move us up a little in the draft order?

 

[TradeDraft]

Harry McKay looks like a very Likely Type:

 

[Knightmare]

I've liked Goldy for us this year down back, but would he packaged with our first rounder move us up a little in the draft order?

The fundamental thing with first round draft picks to understand is unless it's a Pendlebury, Cloke, Sidebottom or someone else who is seriously good. It's not going to appeal to a club enough to motivate them to trade down the draft.

If we ended up hypothetically with pick 12. If we add Tyson Goldsack. There may not be any clubs with higher picks willing to allow us to trade up. Same story with Oxley, Blair, or whatever names people will think to throw out there.

It would probably allow us to move up in the second or third round if we were to add a Goldsack as an example. But certainly inside the first round, it takes a player of perceived high value for a trade to happen.

 

[soreplums]

The fundamental thing with first round draft picks to understand is unless it's a Pendlebury, Cloke, Sidebottom or someone else who is seriously good. It's not going to appeal to a club enough to motivate them to trade down the draft.

If we ended up hypothetically with pick 12. If we add Tyson Goldsack. There may not be any clubs with higher picks willing to allow us to trade up. Same story with Oxley, Blair, or whatever names people will think to throw out there.

It would probably allow us to move up in the second or third round if we were to add a Goldsack as an example. But certainly inside the first round, it takes a player of perceived high value for a trade to happen.

sorry mate, I meant trading Goldy and our second pick for a late first rounder / early second

 

[Apex36]

The fundamental thing with first round draft picks to understand is unless it's a Pendlebury, Cloke, Sidebottom or someone else who is seriously good. It's not going to appeal to a club enough to motivate them to trade down the draft.

If we ended up hypothetically with pick 12. If we add Tyson Goldsack. There may not be any clubs with higher picks willing to allow us to trade up. Same story with Oxley, Blair, or whatever names people will think to throw out there.

It would probably allow us to move up in the second or third round if we were to add a Goldsack as an example. But certainly inside the first round, it takes a player of perceived high value for a trade to happen.

Those three players you listed would all likely command a top 5 draft pick or more by themselves, so you're going way over the top there.

Usually a first + second round pick, or first pick and a player of early second round quality will be enough to move up the order. Maybe a bit more for number 1 or top 5. I see what you're saying, but you're exaggerating the currency required to move up the order somewhat.

 

[ace andy]

I've liked Goldy for us this year down back, but would he packaged with our first rounder move us up a little in the draft order?

Why would other teams be scrambling for him when collingwood supporters think he is crap and at best a fringe player.

 

[soreplums]

Why would other teams be scrambling for him when collingwood supporters think he is crap and at best a
Leigh brown?

I think he may serve as some value for a club. Mind you, I meant trading him with our second for a late first rounder/ top 20 pick

 

[loki04]

Jack Riewoldt has Re-Commited to Ninethmond

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-...-agency-mix-after-signing-threeyear-extension

Wouldn't suit our style of play anyway.

 

[Knightmare]

sorry mate, I meant trading Goldy and our second pick for a late first rounder / early second

That kind of deal would be more possible. A Goldsack or similar level talent might move us from mid first round down to early first round possibly depending on a clubs evaluation of Goldsack as a talent, and the draft.

But as a rule, I would advise against these types of deals. As in the draft. It's a lottery. It would look pretty stupid trading a guy to move up the draft, only to end up with someone worse than the guy you would have taken with that pick you initially had.
Others may have a different view on this. But moving up for me isn't something I'd personally look to do generally unless something like that rare move up the draft, moving pick 11 up to pick 6 and moving one or two of our other picks down the draft. They're the exceptions rather than the rule, and that's only because West Coast wanted Sheed and knew at that later pick they still could get him.

Those three players you listed would all likely command a top 5 draft pick or more by themselves, so you're going way over the top there.

Usually a first + second round pick, or first pick and a player of early second round quality will be enough to move up the order. Maybe a bit more for number 1 or top 5. I see what you're saying, but you're exaggerating the currency required to move up the order somewhat.

You are right. And that's the implication.

All of certainly Pendlebury and Cloke, and likely also Sidebottom would get us a top five pick in isolation. I agree with you.

But they're among the guys who will move you up the first round.

If it's just a marginal talent offered. No one is going to agree to a deal to allow a move up the first round.

 

[loki04]

Sounds like Hine is going to trade it out, hopefully who he trades in is worth the 1st rounder and not another Wood deal.

In all honesty unless you are getting proven quality I'd rather he back in his recruiting team to use our 1st pick.