Pack of lies=CommunismMurray said:
Communism
- Thread starter WA ROO
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Re: Australia Day Celebrations
you would be very surprised at how succesful communism can be if implemented correctly, i.e. inside an environment that is the opposite to it, along with keeping the size of the implementation at a managable level.
I will offer you these as a hints, "communes" or "kibbutzs".
Think about it a little and it might dawn on you how this ideology has been completely ruined, in the eyes of the world by the soviet way of implementing it, along with the obligatory corruption that manifests itself in the leadership of such an ideology when "greed" takes a hold, when numbers are quite unmanagable. Then think about the Chinese impelementation of it, and you kind of see a stark difference, when a road map is followed to the letter.
Lets put it this way, I will give you this to chew on a little.
Take 5 like minded families, all members work in the capitalist system, earning income. All income is massed into one big pool of money, from that pool, the 5 families are fed, clothed, medically insured, entertained, etc. Any member of the group that is incapactitated due to illness is taken care of from the pool, any memebr that is unemployed for a period of time is carried by the pool.
In effect stress levels are reduced, hence members are less liable to take ill.
What happens? in an economy that is humming? the pool grows, and investments are made, over time, that grow into an investment portfolio that also adds to the pool. You can kind of get the drift that from 5 like minded families, there would be quite a deal of income being ammasses on a weekly basis, i.e. we take an average income per annum of an individual at say, 30gs, so we understate it, rather than overstate it.
The 5 families, for the exercise have 4 members in each, earning income.
4 X 5 X 30000 = $600000 per annum. kind of figure you could just about acquire a property every 2 years, or lets not cut it fine, 3 years. so the future is pretty much lloking pretty secure for those mebers and future generations of that group of families.
So you might suggest its all lies, but you of course no the ins and outs of what it was suppose to be all about, rather than what it got to, my man.
WA ROO said:
you would be very surprised at how succesful communism can be if implemented correctly, i.e. inside an environment that is the opposite to it, along with keeping the size of the implementation at a managable level.
I will offer you these as a hints, "communes" or "kibbutzs".
Think about it a little and it might dawn on you how this ideology has been completely ruined, in the eyes of the world by the soviet way of implementing it, along with the obligatory corruption that manifests itself in the leadership of such an ideology when "greed" takes a hold, when numbers are quite unmanagable. Then think about the Chinese impelementation of it, and you kind of see a stark difference, when a road map is followed to the letter.
Lets put it this way, I will give you this to chew on a little.
Take 5 like minded families, all members work in the capitalist system, earning income. All income is massed into one big pool of money, from that pool, the 5 families are fed, clothed, medically insured, entertained, etc. Any member of the group that is incapactitated due to illness is taken care of from the pool, any memebr that is unemployed for a period of time is carried by the pool.
In effect stress levels are reduced, hence members are less liable to take ill.
What happens? in an economy that is humming? the pool grows, and investments are made, over time, that grow into an investment portfolio that also adds to the pool. You can kind of get the drift that from 5 like minded families, there would be quite a deal of income being ammasses on a weekly basis, i.e. we take an average income per annum of an individual at say, 30gs, so we understate it, rather than overstate it.
The 5 families, for the exercise have 4 members in each, earning income.
4 X 5 X 30000 = $600000 per annum. kind of figure you could just about acquire a property every 2 years, or lets not cut it fine, 3 years. so the future is pretty much lloking pretty secure for those mebers and future generations of that group of families.
So you might suggest its all lies, but you of course no the ins and outs of what it was suppose to be all about, rather than what it got to, my man.
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
How does this work if each family does not do identical jobs?CoggaRules said:Take 5 like minded families, all members work in the capitalist system, earning income. All income is massed into one big pool of money, from that pool, the 5 families are fed, clothed, medically insured, entertained, etc. Any member of the group that is incapactitated due to illness is taken care of from the pool, any memebr that is unemployed for a period of time is carried by the pool.
In effect stress levels are reduced, hence members are less liable to take ill.
What happens? in an economy that is humming? the pool grows, and investments are made, over time, that grow into an investment portfolio that also adds to the pool. You can kind of get the drift that from 5 like minded families, there would be quite a deal of income being ammasses on a weekly basis, i.e. we take an average income per annum of an individual at say, 30gs, so we understate it, rather than overstate it.
The 5 families, for the exercise have 4 members in each, earning income.
4 X 5 X 30000 = $600000 per annum. kind of figure you could just about acquire a property every 2 years, or lets not cut it fine, 3 years. so the future is pretty much lloking pretty secure for those mebers and future generations of that group of families.
So you might suggest its all lies, but you of course no the ins and outs of what it was suppose to be all about, rather than what it got to, my man.
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Re: Australia Day Celebrations
??, dont understand why the type of job has makes any difference.
By the way, its each member of each family.
NMWBloods said:
??, dont understand why the type of job has makes any difference.
By the way, its each member of each family.
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- #5
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Remember "power corrupts"
Could you tell me where this idealogy has worked without turning into a totalitarian regime?CoggaRules said:
Remember "power corrupts"
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- #6
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
you suggest this because of the Soviet model i guess?
You also need to factor in when suggesting "power corrupts", who is in power and why they get to that position huh?
Because power does corrupt, but it corrupts those who got where they got to, because of just that.
By the way, it is "successful communism can be, if implemented correctly."
WA ROO said:
you suggest this because of the Soviet model i guess?
You also need to factor in when suggesting "power corrupts", who is in power and why they get to that position huh?
Because power does corrupt, but it corrupts those who got where they got to, because of just that.
By the way, it is "successful communism can be, if implemented correctly."
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- #7
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Try and do just a little bit of research instead of simply mouthing other peoples (wrong) views.
You would not have the slightest idea of what communism is and where it has been practiced.WA ROO said:
Try and do just a little bit of research instead of simply mouthing other peoples (wrong) views.
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- #8
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
So where has it worked?
Where is this wonderland?
Going by your simplistic model of communism/socialism/marxism/WTFism it should be easyCoggaRules said:By the way, it is "successful communism can be, if implemented correctly."
So where has it worked?
Where is this wonderland?
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- #9
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
You do not have the slightest idea, yet you say it cannot work.
Do some research - bet you can't be bothered.
Ah, there you go, point proven.WA ROO said:
You do not have the slightest idea, yet you say it cannot work.
Do some research - bet you can't be bothered.
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Same place that a succesful capitalist model has been introduced ie. nowhere.
WA ROO said:
Same place that a succesful capitalist model has been introduced ie. nowhere.
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- #11
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
ask Alice
but again like i suggested, the theory is fine, its how and where you implement it, along with keeping the amount of members to a managable level, i.e. 5 "like minded faimilies", for e.g. living within a capitalist model, you would be very surprised at what can be done. Think about it a little, without looking at it in terms of what has transpired in the Soviet U etc.
WA ROO said:
ask Alice
but again like i suggested, the theory is fine, its how and where you implement it, along with keeping the amount of members to a managable level, i.e. 5 "like minded faimilies", for e.g. living within a capitalist model, you would be very surprised at what can be done. Think about it a little, without looking at it in terms of what has transpired in the Soviet U etc.
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- #12
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
"The Romanovs, Russia’s last Imperial family, three servants, and the family doctor were held prisoner in the "House of Special Purpose" in Siberia by their Bolshevik captors in Siberia for just over two months. Some time after midnight, on the night of July 16th, 1918, they were awakened and ordered down to a cellar.
Believing they were to be photographed, the eleven prisoners were instructed to stand in two rows. 17 year old Anastasia stood in the second row, next to Tatiana, who was carrying her pet Spaniel, Jimmy. Eleven armed soldiers then entered the cellar, each with instructions to kill a specific person.
Bolshevik General Yurovsky proceeded to read aloud a death warrant: "Citizen Nicholas Romanov, for high crimes against Russia, the Ural Soviet has hereby sentenced you and your family to death. Your lives are finished."
Nicholas only had time to exclaim, "What? What?" before the firing squad aimed and opened fire, killing him instantly.
The Empress Alexandra and the eldest Grand Duchess, Olga, apparently had time to genuflect before they too were killed, both shot in the forehead. The family Doctor also died quickly, as did two of the servants.
Less fortunate were the remaining Romanov children ~ Maria, Alexei, Tatiana, Anastasia, and their maid, Anna Demidova. As fourteen-year-old Alexei lay groaning on the basement floor, his sisters and their maid ran about the tiny cellar screaming, clutching their hands over their heads and pleading for their lives.
Unbeknownst to the firing squad, the princesses had sewn jewellery and diamonds into their corsets at the insistence of their mother, possibly in the hopes of being able to use them as a kind or "ransom" to obtain freedom. The girls wore two sets of these "bullet proof" corsets, keeping much of their bodies very well protected. Thus, the bullets almost 'bounced' off them,ricocheting onto the walls and seemingly having no effect. Astounded and even scared, the men continued to shoot wildly at them. The cellar was so packed with smoke, it was difficult for them to even see where to aim. One eyewitness later wrote of dimly discerning either Maria or Anastasia crouched against the cellar wall, clutching hands over head and sobbing.
Finally, General Yurovsky shouted at the soldiers, "Stop firing! Finish them off with bayonets!"
Grand Duchesses Tatiana and Maria were savagely stabbed to death with bayonets, as was the maid, Anna Demidova, who had been believed dead, but apparently showed "a sign of life". (One can only wonder at why the servants were killed at all, and not granted freedom on the basis of being merely oppressed victims of their ruling class employers.)
Eventually, all eleven victims lay lifelessly in "thick pools of blood" on the cellar floor; it seemed the "special purpose" had been accomplished. As the smoke from the firing cleared a little, the murderers began to inspect the bodies. According to Yurovsky’s account, all were thought to be dead until Alexei was heard groaning.
General Yurovsky walked over to the little boy and "calmly" shot him in the forehead.
At that point, Anastasia abruptly sat up, stared around her in terror and horror and began screaming, taking the assassins by surprise. Like her unfortunate sisters, she was then repeatedly stabbed and finally bashed, presumably until she was dead. As a final gesture, a soldier took some chalk and wrote upon the back wall: "F*** YOU NICHOLAS, HERE'S YOUR REPUBLIC!"
Yep good people Bolshie's
Bolshie is hereMurray said:
"The Romanovs, Russia’s last Imperial family, three servants, and the family doctor were held prisoner in the "House of Special Purpose" in Siberia by their Bolshevik captors in Siberia for just over two months. Some time after midnight, on the night of July 16th, 1918, they were awakened and ordered down to a cellar.
Believing they were to be photographed, the eleven prisoners were instructed to stand in two rows. 17 year old Anastasia stood in the second row, next to Tatiana, who was carrying her pet Spaniel, Jimmy. Eleven armed soldiers then entered the cellar, each with instructions to kill a specific person.
Bolshevik General Yurovsky proceeded to read aloud a death warrant: "Citizen Nicholas Romanov, for high crimes against Russia, the Ural Soviet has hereby sentenced you and your family to death. Your lives are finished."
Nicholas only had time to exclaim, "What? What?" before the firing squad aimed and opened fire, killing him instantly.
The Empress Alexandra and the eldest Grand Duchess, Olga, apparently had time to genuflect before they too were killed, both shot in the forehead. The family Doctor also died quickly, as did two of the servants.
Less fortunate were the remaining Romanov children ~ Maria, Alexei, Tatiana, Anastasia, and their maid, Anna Demidova. As fourteen-year-old Alexei lay groaning on the basement floor, his sisters and their maid ran about the tiny cellar screaming, clutching their hands over their heads and pleading for their lives.
Unbeknownst to the firing squad, the princesses had sewn jewellery and diamonds into their corsets at the insistence of their mother, possibly in the hopes of being able to use them as a kind or "ransom" to obtain freedom. The girls wore two sets of these "bullet proof" corsets, keeping much of their bodies very well protected. Thus, the bullets almost 'bounced' off them,ricocheting onto the walls and seemingly having no effect. Astounded and even scared, the men continued to shoot wildly at them. The cellar was so packed with smoke, it was difficult for them to even see where to aim. One eyewitness later wrote of dimly discerning either Maria or Anastasia crouched against the cellar wall, clutching hands over head and sobbing.
Finally, General Yurovsky shouted at the soldiers, "Stop firing! Finish them off with bayonets!"
Grand Duchesses Tatiana and Maria were savagely stabbed to death with bayonets, as was the maid, Anna Demidova, who had been believed dead, but apparently showed "a sign of life". (One can only wonder at why the servants were killed at all, and not granted freedom on the basis of being merely oppressed victims of their ruling class employers.)
Eventually, all eleven victims lay lifelessly in "thick pools of blood" on the cellar floor; it seemed the "special purpose" had been accomplished. As the smoke from the firing cleared a little, the murderers began to inspect the bodies. According to Yurovsky’s account, all were thought to be dead until Alexei was heard groaning.
General Yurovsky walked over to the little boy and "calmly" shot him in the forehead.
At that point, Anastasia abruptly sat up, stared around her in terror and horror and began screaming, taking the assassins by surprise. Like her unfortunate sisters, she was then repeatedly stabbed and finally bashed, presumably until she was dead. As a final gesture, a soldier took some chalk and wrote upon the back wall: "F*** YOU NICHOLAS, HERE'S YOUR REPUBLIC!"
Yep good people Bolshie's
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Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Spot on.
There are many variants of socialism. The ones that have been tried so far were totalitarian versions (I wouldnt put Cuba in that bunch). I still have not seen any rational socialist praise any aspect about the USSR, North Korea etc.
I noticed that WA ROO shot out the 'power corrupts' dictum.
Does he also apply this to the current situation where a power is increasingly being concentrated into the hands of self-interested corporations?????
Murray said:
Spot on.
There are many variants of socialism. The ones that have been tried so far were totalitarian versions (I wouldnt put Cuba in that bunch). I still have not seen any rational socialist praise any aspect about the USSR, North Korea etc.
I noticed that WA ROO shot out the 'power corrupts' dictum.
Does he also apply this to the current situation where a power is increasingly being concentrated into the hands of self-interested corporations?????
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Re: Australia Day Celebrations
hahahahaha this dude cracks me up.
That could be a recount of any number of incidents in US 'illegal combatant' prisons.
And if violence against innocent people is the standard in which to judge a regime, then the Australian regime is just as evil.
WA ROO said:
hahahahaha this dude cracks me up.
That could be a recount of any number of incidents in US 'illegal combatant' prisons.
And if violence against innocent people is the standard in which to judge a regime, then the Australian regime is just as evil.
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
I am rather new to this site so please forgive me if I have it wrong, but Murray you are the resident Communist I gather?
Perhaps if that is so you could explain to me, as we approach Australia Day, how the people of Australia would be better off under communism and would this assist the indigenous people?
By the way Diego, if you are ashamed to be an Australian and are considering your options overseas, good.
Murray said:
I am rather new to this site so please forgive me if I have it wrong, but Murray you are the resident Communist I gather?
Perhaps if that is so you could explain to me, as we approach Australia Day, how the people of Australia would be better off under communism and would this assist the indigenous people?
By the way Diego, if you are ashamed to be an Australian and are considering your options overseas, good.
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- #16
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Australia v Katyn,Liviv and Stalin
Fair comparison
RightFunkyzeit mit Matt said:
Australia v Katyn,Liviv and Stalin
Fair comparison
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
If you could explain how they would be any worse off then the present situation I'm all ears?
I have no doubt that under a pur communist regime, without curruption and racism, they would be much better off.
The same could be said for a capatalist regime without corruption and racism though.
ROB48 said:
If you could explain how they would be any worse off then the present situation I'm all ears?
I have no doubt that under a pur communist regime, without curruption and racism, they would be much better off.
The same could be said for a capatalist regime without corruption and racism though.
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- #18
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Or did they get it right and you don't like the results?
Has any place that has tried communisim got it right?funkyfreo said:
Or did they get it right and you don't like the results?
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- #20
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
earth to WR, heres something to think about. A family, in essence is the simplest implementation of the communist model.
WA ROO said:
earth to WR, heres something to think about. A family, in essence is the simplest implementation of the communist model.
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- #21
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Aaah the old perfect Communist regime....the one that ALWAYS has racism and corruption.
funkyfreo said:
Aaah the old perfect Communist regime....the one that ALWAYS has racism and corruption.
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- #23
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
Could be male or female
Most families have one dominant decision makerCoggaRules said:earth to WR, heres something to think about. A family, in essence is the simplest implementation of the communist model.
Could be male or female
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- #24
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
??, naaa, you are mixing up families with govts that have absolute power.
WA ROO said:
??, naaa, you are mixing up families with govts that have absolute power.
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- #25
Re: Australia Day Celebrations
You never met my grandmotherCoggaRules said:??, naaa, you are mixing up families with govts that have absolute power.
