Communism

Little Big John

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Aug 15, 2009
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Cherry picked? It isnt the only quote regarding the subject.

I will go again.

I always disagree, however, when people end up saying that we can only combat Communism, Fascism or what not if we develop an equal fanaticism. It appears to me that one defeats the fanatic precisely by not being a fanatic oneself, but on the contrary by using one's intelligence.Letter to Richard Rees (3 March 1949), The Collected Essays,

Does that sound to you like he didnt feel it needed to be combatted?

Yeah, cherry picked. Instead of reading his entire body of work you're picking out selected quotes to make a narrow point; Orwell didn't like communism.

Correct. He didn't like communism.

His disdain for communism however had nothing to do with a disdain for left wing principles, but a disdain for hierarchies, stratification and tyranny. Common to both communism, fascism, autocracy and oligarchies. It's also a thread that runs through 1984, Animal Farm, Down and Out in Paris and London and Homage to Catalonia.

His beef was with tyrannical political/economic systems. Not with loony lefty lurvies.

My point is this would be bleedingly ******* obvious if you'd actually read his work rather than just searching for quotes that back up your point of view on the internet.
 
Jun 11, 2007
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Any of you guys see this comparison of Orwell's 1984 and Aldous Huxley's earlier Brave New World? They seem to mark how the Cold War adversaries kept their populations in check. One by Temptation. The other by Terror...

HAAV
 

CountryRace

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Yeah, cherry picked. Instead of reading his entire body of work you're picking out selected quotes to make a narrow point; Orwell didn't like communism.

Correct. He didn't like communism.

His disdain for communism however had nothing to do with a disdain for left wing principles, but a disdain for hierarchies, stratification and tyranny. Common to both communism, fascism, autocracy and oligarchies. It's also a thread that runs through 1984, Animal Farm, Down and Out in Paris and London and Homage to Catalonia.

His beef was with tyrannical political/economic systems. Not with loony lefty lurvies.

My point is this would be bleedingly ******* obvious if you'd actually read his work rather than just searching for quotes that back up your point of view on the internet.

well said

orwell was not right wing
 

Big_Birdy

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Jul 6, 2011
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I never said he was. I said he didnt like communism.

There has been agreement from me that not everything (and by extension everyone) can be easily fit into the labels left and right wing.
 

CountryRace

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im assuming he was like me ( :) ) and was upset by what he saw of Communism ( animal farm) reality but understood it was a theoretically better model than 85 people owning half the worlds s**t.

if you had a gun to his head and forced him to pick i doubt hed be going for the fascist side.
 
May 20, 2006
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Sure I can accept most of that. But barbarity of Capatalism, where? When?
I am not saying what I post below this is right or wrong and yes is open to ones political opinions. FOR EXAMPLE those of Libertarian bent will never ever except that there are any deaths other than by oppressive governments. What I am trying to say that it is in the end how one wants to interpret mass death.

So with that, and as an example, there have been many arguments put up that the Arms industry, very much private enterprise in western countries, has been the cause of the deaths of many millions. I read an excellent book called A Problem from Hell America and the Age of Genocide by Samantha Power several years back. She was in the end an interventionist. Though I am not she still put up a persuasive argument that one could respect. She had a chapter on the Iran Iraq war, a war that had no goodies or baddies (sorry) according to the west but it did not stop the west supplying weaponry to the belligerents with specific reference to Iraq under Saddam Hussein. Because there was an embargo on supplying of chemicals for weaponry the US supplier of certain chemicals got around the embargo by supplying it to a West German firm who on supplied to the Iraqi's. Power had a bit to say about this in her book. If we wish to go further we can even read the wiki on the entire US support for Iraq FWIW.

I mentioned The Great War. The US joined after one side put in place a trade blockade of it's enemies. With that the economic trashing of a beaten country lead to the appalling suffering of the 2nd WW. If you want to go back further Niall Ferguson, hardly a "leftist" historian, makes it abundantly clear in his very good read Empire that the day the English and the Dutch made peace in a trade war that the entire death and mayhem committed by the British Empire was because of trade and free markets. I have just read about the Opium Wars in China and the same could be said there.

I am fast becoming a fan of Matthew White and will quote him again.
When looking at natural deaths he said the following"“Aha! [Somebody we hate] produced six megadeaths, while [somebody we like] produced only two, which proves that [somebody we hate] is far worse than [somebody we like], so there!” Fill in the blanks however you want—Africans, Belgians, Christians, Communists, French, the godless, left-handers, Muslims, multinational corporations, racists, Russians, or white people.

Unfortunately, that line of reasoning falls apart on one very important issue. “Only” two megadeaths is nothing to be proud of. Causing any megadeath is bad, especially since there are a few human types and activities that don’t stand out as the direct cause of my one hundred mass killings."
I really do commend his book to anyone interested in this subject.
 

Contra Mundum

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I never said he was. I said he didnt like communism.

There has been agreement from me that not everything (and by extension everyone) can be easily fit into the labels left and right wing.

Yes he hated left wingers so much he fought shoulder to shoulder with the brave Falangists of Franco during the Civil War .... No wait...

He had convictions which is something that a traitorous establishment loving campaigner like Chris Hitchens cannot understand and tried to appropriate by being the self appointed carrier of poor Georges legacy

Can you imagine Chris writing Down and Out in London and Paris!!! Bit hard to get Bolle and Beluga caviar at Wiggen Pier

Chris could write though what a pity he stuffed his legacy by embracing the Cheney project
 
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May 20, 2006
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Heard it for the first time on RN recently and was totally mesmerised
I got into minimalism a good few years back and have been more into Reich, Glass, Nyman (The Piano soundtrack has had major airplay in my household by the Mrs with no complaint by me) but had read about Bryars and then one day found it in a shop. Mesmerising sums most of it up. In truth though I reckon the piece itself easily gets by without Tom Waits on my version of the CD. I tend to stick to the original 25 minute piece.

Some find it hard to get into minimalism as a genre but I like it a lot.
 
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