Autopsy Comparison between the Hawks and D's since the merger vote.

[Hawkk]

In 1964 Melbourne drew almost 1/3 of the VFL attendances to their home games (49,575 when the league average was just 23,490). No club before or since have drawn such crowds to their home games relative to the league average (even Richmond never touched these crowds in the '70s and early '80s when suburban grounds were still in fore).

So it begs the question, where have these supporters gone? Typically the more successful clubs have the biggest fan bases and membership bases...Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Hawthorn and even Geelong are the most powerful Victorian clubs today and unsurprisingly have been the most successful clubs in terms of premiership success...Melbourne is the outlier to this and should be far more successful then what they currently are.

 

[Pessimistic]

There was a fair amount of apathy pre 1996

Some say the surprise flag in 1991 was like too much sugar to a diabetic

In 1993 when there was a clearout of star players the writing was plainly on the wall

 

[JeddaB]

Hawthorn supporters have and still are generally lazy when attending matches. 1996 had to happen and I'm glad it did happen. It was about time the supporters became members and it is a huge credit to the club for ensuring we remained around the top of the membership ladder

Melbourne will forever be thankful to CEO Andrew Demetriou. It took a greasy wog to ensure the survival of all clubs. Melbourne would never admit this though.

KOLOKOTRONIS

Racism has no place in this topic pal. Your post came across insightful till that bit.

 

[Gauntlet]

Complacency got us into that mess in the first place.

I won't be letting it go and forgetting it in my lifetime.

Totally agree; surviving our near-death experience, thanks to the paddles applied that night in the Camberwell Town Hall by Don Scott, Paul Dear, Ian Dicker and so many supporters (who'd soon become members), meant we had the grit to ride out the painful years that followed. We won't forget.


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[Hawk Dork]

Hmmm. Nietz v Franklin in an interesting comparison for another day

The whole episode underlines how bad afl was before ADs tenure. The guy gets a lot of stick but fundamentally I'd guess we prefer him many times over his two predecessors

Agree
The AFL shifted to the left.
The economic rationalists under Kennett's mate Oakley saw it as a purely money without any soul.
It was Darwinian survival of the fittest and stuff tradition.
Galvanised, generational, passionate support suffered and so did the AFL.
You cant buy or manufacture this loyalty.
Vlad's Chinese style socialist market economy model has seen the AFL improve as weaker clubs are propped up for the benefit of the "common good"
Obviously some are more equal than others as the key now is TV rights and pokies, which has its faults,but no system is perfect.

 

[Pessimistic]

It was more like tvs survivor in that weaker clubs hoped to kill of a stronger fitter hawthorn in a moment of weakness.

The equivalent would have been the epl trying to merge liverpool with everton and calling it everton reds


Honestly if you objectively wanted to rationalis youd pick off the afl clubs which havent won squat for a while

 

[Pessimistic]

Racism has no place in this topic pal. Your post came across insightful till that bit.

Surely that was ironic

 

[JeddaB]

Sorry Pess. Racism is racism, and it shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Pessimistic]

By the way darwin was survival of the adaptable not the fittest. Is he the most misquoted person in history ?

 

[Hawkas1988]

It was more like tvs survivor in that weaker clubs hoped to kill of a stronger fitter hawthorn in a moment of weakness.

The equivalent would have been the epl trying to merge liverpool with everton and calling it everton reds


Honestly if you objectively wanted to rationalis youd pick off the afl clubs which havent won squat for a while

Gee thats disrespectful to Everton! Very much respected club with a great history, they ain't no basket case like Melbourne

 

[moginie]

Gee thats disrespectful to Everton! Very much respected club with a great history, they ain't no basket case like Melbourne

Alright, merging Liverpool with Wolverhampton.

Can't hear any Wolves fans complaining.

 

[Hawkas1988]

Alright, merging Liverpool with Wolverhampton.

Can't hear any Wolves fans complaining.

Haha I have always had a soft spot for Wolves, 2nd fav side, so pick another please

 

[moginie]

Haha I have always had a soft spot for Wolves, 2nd fav side, so pick another please

No.

As a long suffering Wolves supporter (suffering being the operative word) I can't find a more apt comparison.

 

[Pessimistic]

Gee thats disrespectful to Everton! Very much respected club with a great history, they ain't no basket case like Melbourne

Yeah it was a bit loose but liverpool overtook them to be more successful in the 70s and 80s

 

[Hawkas1988]

Yeah it was a bit loose but liverpool overtook them to be more successful in the 70s and 80s

Oh no doubt, Liverpool are much bigger, just more that Everton are a consistently good side and Melbourne are well pathetic and have been for awhile now haha

 

[Pessimistic]

Oh no doubt, Liverpool are much bigger, just more that Everton are a consistently good side and Melbourne are well pathetic and have been for awhile now haha

I understand they were the poor cousin before shankly took over. I draw comparisons between shankly and kennedy, then later paisley with jeans

History books for a while have saud the MFC saw hawthorn as its junior club until hawthorn joined the VFA then thr VFL

 

[Pessimistic]

Totally agree; surviving our near-death experience, thanks to the paddles applied that night in the Camberwell Town Hall by Don Scott, Paul Dear, Ian Dicker and so many supporters (who'd soon become members), meant we had the grit to ride out the painful years that followed. We won't forget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually, as i was there, I think the merger was already dead from our side. We probably went on with the vote meeting because of agreement with the afl and the MFC. In fact the poll of memebers going in was 95% against, and ended up being 90% actual from actual attendees, so the fove did soften due to the acrimonious nature of the meeting.

I do remember scotty emphasising that once we left the meeting, we should unite again, whatever the outcome

When there was a rally on the way to the round 22 game, you could see it was dead in the water

 

[jd1991]

In 1964 Melbourne drew almost 1/3 of the VFL attendances to their home games (49,575 when the league average was just 23,490). No club before or since have drawn such crowds to their home games relative to the league average (even Richmond never touched these crowds in the '70s and early '80s when suburban grounds were still in fore).

So it begs the question, where have these supporters gone? Typically the more successful clubs have the biggest fan bases and membership bases...Collingwood, Essendon, Carlton, Richmond, Hawthorn and even Geelong are the most powerful Victorian clubs today and unsurprisingly have been the most successful clubs in terms of premiership success...Melbourne is the outlier to this and should be far more successful then what they currently are.

The supporters have aged. The kids of the kids (seen it in my sons team where dad is melb son is hawks) have left as sustained failure cuts out the passion. New possible supporters (migrants etc) dont want to follow a lowly team. thus new support is not generated.
through on top the team of entitlement "they cant get rid of us, otherwise we wont have a team called melbourne in the comp" or " We are the oldest club" are 2 shonky reasons how they justify there presence -not by deeds as the other clubs do.

 

[Todman]

The supporters have aged. The kids of the kids (seen it in my sons team where dad is melb son is hawks) have left as sustained failure cuts out the passion.

My late mother was a Melbourne supporter. :O

 

[Ram-Man]

By the way darwin was survival of the adaptable not the fittest. Is he the most misquoted person in history ?

Quite possibly .. http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Notable_Charles_Darwin_misquotes

Or Jack Swigert from Apollo 13 -- he said "Houston, we've had a problem"

Or Darth Vader -- he says "No, I am your father"

 

[play2win]

Agree
The AFL shifted to the left.
The economic rationalists under Kennett's mate Oakley saw it as a purely money without any soul.
It was Darwinian survival of the fittest and stuff tradition.
Galvanised, generational, passionate support suffered and so did the AFL.
You cant buy or manufacture this loyalty.
Vlad's Chinese style socialist market economy model has seen the AFL improve as weaker clubs are propped up for the benefit of the "common good"
Obviously some are more equal than others as the key now is TV rights and pokies, which has its faults,but no system is perfect.

the afl adapted to recognise that the most dollars would come from more matches and so introduced more teams, and is still driven by the $ above anything else - just look at the essendon scandal. it is only marketing spin when they bang on about retaining the current clubs and ensuring the competitions integrity. from my perspective nothing much has changed.

 

[Pessimistic]

Oakleys favourit saying during the merger stuff was " your emotional". Or you have to take the emotion out of the decision

Thats crap - emotion is the product the AFL is selling

Othewise its just 36 guys chasing a bit of leather in a paddock

 

[Breretonisahood]

Melbourne post-1996 are pretty much where they have been for most of their existence. 10 of the 12 premierships were won 1939-64, just 25 years of (admittedly great) success in 116 years in the VFL/AFL. They never really had the rabid supporters that Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon etc had and still have. Football for Melbourne supporters has always been a mere diversion. Even the way they politely clap at games cracks me up. I always remember my grandfather scoffing at the toffs that played for them (eg the Cordners) and ran the club.

 

[Agent Smith]

So to put it all in perspective, are we saying Melbourne is more Bernard Tomic, Shane Watson or Jana Pittman? Or maybe a combination of all 3?

 

[Dewnior]

So to put it in perspective, are we saying Melbourne is more Bernard Tomic, Shane Watson or Jana Pittman? Or maybe a combination of all 3?

Melbourne is more like Romania at the Moscow Olympics. Only won medals when half the countries weren't competing.