Connecting the dots - Are we on the brink of calamity?

[Smiling Buddha]

I love it how the guy on the left says he gave the book about French fiat currency to Henry Paulson.

What we all need to realise is that jokers like Paulson and Bernanke understand full well where the dollar is headed, much better than amateurs like us on the sidelines understand.

They are in on the scam! Them and every member of congress and the senate. They all know where this is headed, and anybody who thinks that their doomed monetary policies are accidental is failing to see the true evil at play here. They know full well, which is why they are wringing as much out of the system as they can now in the dieing days of the dollar.

 

[Ripper]

I love it how the guy on the left says he gave the book about French fiat currency to Henry Paulson.

What we all need to realise is that jokers like Paulson and Bernanke understand full well where the dollar is headed, much better than amateurs like us on the sidelines understand.

They are in on the scam! Them and every member of congress and the senate. They all know where this is headed, and anybody who thinks that their doomed monetary policies are accidental is failing to see the true evil at play here. They know full well, which is why they are wringing as much out of the system as they can now in the dieing days of the dollar.

That's why they are going after the Russians who are now the 2nd largest engy producers in the world. Not for the Oil & Gas , but what the oil & gas is sold in.

 

[The Speaker]

I love it how the guy on the left says he gave the book about French fiat currency to Henry Paulson.

What we all need to realise is that jokers like Paulson and Bernanke understand full well where the dollar is headed, much better than amateurs like us on the sidelines understand.

They are in on the scam! Them and every member of congress and the senate. They all know where this is headed, and anybody who thinks that their doomed monetary policies are accidental is failing to see the true evil at play here. They know full well, which is why they are wringing as much out of the system as they can now in the dieing days of the dollar.

While we're on Congress and currency, what do you make of Ron Paul's monetary policy?

 

[Ripper]

While we're on Congress and currency, what do you make of Ron Paul's monetary policy?

Cannot knock the concept of sound money. If you don't have any you cannot spend it. Far better than stealing from every other holder of the currency by creating more out thin air printing some more quantitative easing.

It creates discipline on governments.

 

[Ripper]

We are just as bad in Australia. Costello gave the RBA an inflation target of 2-3% . On a AUD$1T economy that is an extra $20-30B a year they can "create".
In reality it is probably twice that as the CPI is , how should I put it, Selective.

 

[clogged]

How so?

Every single gold and silver standard that has ever existed in history has collapsed.

There is no such thing as 'sound money'. It will be gamed by anyone who wishes to game it.

When the gold standard was last in full force there were millions of people who believed that the powers that be (often told as the Jews) owned all the gold. Now the powers that be control the Fed. Different system, same story.

Does anyone perhaps think that there is no perfect system and that maybe those that have wealth and are smarter than the average idiot will continue to game whatever system that exists?

 

[Power Raid]

I agree with the loss of faith in democracy being very dangerous. I also believe that an economy with infinite growth at its foundation is bound to collapse at some point. There is also many hot spots around the world where nasty people like elements in the US, Russian and Chinese leadership can duke it out.

However, what is the straw that will break the camels back of our industrial civilisation is climate change.

Where too ****** up to cope with climate change. We're too ****** up to deal with it either.

All this talk about war being good for the economy has some truth. As horrible as it sounds there is a big reduction in population which opens up opportunities for many and after a period of banding together we saw an egalitarianism after WW2 which has never been seen before. Monboit writes some fantastic stuff about this.

Anyhow the most depressing thing about watching us squabble while we change the climate to the point that the industrial farming won't be a reliable source of food for 9,000,000,000 people is that banding together and attacking this problem will provide the economic and social gains that a war could. However, unlike a normal war we wont see the destruction and nations could potentially band together with a common goal rather than work towards each others destruction.

I am one of those who believe democracy is failing as 1) many voters seem vote out of protest rather than positive action 2) politicians are becoming to focused on popularity rather than nation building and reforms.

I am also not concerned re the climate change issue as we and the environment will adapt. That said, I am all for changing how we do business to reduce pollution. Unfortunately the biggest change will need to be the electric car which requires massive amounts of reliable clean base load. Yet, we seem to be pushing unreliable boutique sources which again is a policy of short term popular-ism rather than nation building.

You also touched on the concept of mobilisation and participation of the population. This is a massive issue in society as it is not only an economic loss but the social problems that exclusion causes is immense. I really hope we find better ways to get our youth, our elderly, our handicapped and every other bugger involved positively in society. I think national service (not national military service) should be compulsory like it is in Singapore.

 

[Ripper]

Every single gold and silver standard that has ever existed in history has collapsed.

There is no such thing as 'sound money'. It will be gamed by anyone who wishes to game it.

When the gold standard was last in full force there were millions of people who believed that the powers that be (often told as the Jews) owned all the gold. Now the powers that be control the Fed. Different system, same story.

Does anyone perhaps think that there is no perfect system and that maybe those that have wealth and are smarter than the average idiot will continue to game whatever system that exists?

Nothing is perfect, the big thing going for the gold standard is that you cannot print gold.

 

[Ripper]

 

[Power Raid]

Nothing is perfect, the big thing going for the gold standard is that you cannot print gold.

That is true and gold is the crystalisation of energy. As gold is everywhere but the cost of energy to produce it determines economic grades.

So during boom times, energy prices increase which means gold to will increase. This means people will invest in gold leading into booms and thus cool the economy.

The issue with it, is it does not actually produce anything. Thus it is an inefficient use of resources, which could otherwise be deployed producing food, health and education etc

 

[clogged]

Nothing is perfect, the big thing going for the gold standard is that you cannot print gold.

Which also counts against it. What happens when the economy grows faster than the extraction rate of gold?

 

[Smiling Buddha]

While we're on Congress and currency, what do you make of Ron Paul's monetary policy?

I don't know enough about his proposals, have never read any of his books.

There is more to monetary policy than simply what is used to back a currency.

I am personally against central banks and 'too big to fail' government bailout mantra.

Capitalism is about letting bad businesses go broke. A bank bailout removes any semblance, any plausibile suggestion that there exists 'capitalism' or a free market.

What we have is crony capitalism at best and outright fascism at worst. And if you think I am exaggerating, watch what happens when you refuse to repay a loan to a bank which is backed by your taxpayer dollars. Watch what the state does to you on behalf of the bank.

 

[Ripper]

Which also counts against it. What happens when the economy grows faster than the extraction rate of gold?

Prices go down.

 

[clogged]

Prices go down.

Not that simple. There becomes an incentive to hoard gold. And those who hoard gold become exceedingly wealthy. And then they are accused of manipulating the system to make themselves wealthy. And then the Rothschild's are accused of being a gigantic tentacled octopus that controls the world.

We've been here before.

 

[Ripper]

Not that simple. There becomes an incentive to hoard gold. And those who hoard gold become exceedingly wealthy. And then they are accused of manipulating the system to make themselves wealthy. And then the Rothschild's are accused of being a gigantic tentacled octopus that controls the world.

We've been here before.

What year was that? Before or after 1913?

 

[clogged]

What year was that? Before or after 1913?

That image is from the 1890s.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

I spoke a lot at the start of the thread about real estate prices and their flow-on effects to the finance sector and in turn the economy as a whole.

I noted in the real estate thread on the Aus Pol board that Melbourne house prices had risen 6% in a quarter. Apparently things are going just as batshit over in London.

House prices in London have increased by almost a fifth over the past 12 months, and are now 20% above their pre-crisis peak, according to the latest data from the country's biggest building society.

In news that will fuel concerns of a price bubble in the capital, Nationwide building society said the average price of a London home had increased by 18% over the year and by 5.3% in the past three months alone, and at £362,699 was now more than twice the figure for the rest of the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/apr/02/london-house-prices-rise-bubble-nationwide

Hot money everywhere. America gets the printing presses running on overdrive, the Chinese have to follow suit to keep their currency down, other countries get in on the act and next thing you know, piles of bricks with lids on top are out-earning the people living inside those piles of bricks.

This is madness.

 

[clogged]

Smiling Buddha this came past my eye the other day. This is the new normal. Same as the old (pre 20th century where there were few elites and everyone else lived much poorer lives) normal.

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/30/plu...s_defeats_the_middle_class/?source=newsletter

 

[Power Raid]

Smiling Buddha this came past my eye the other day. This is the new normal. Same as the old (pre 20th century where there were few elites and everyone else lived much poorer lives) normal.

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/30/plu...s_defeats_the_middle_class/?source=newsletter

the article seems to focus on the problem and not the cause.

yes, I do believe the post war era was an anomaly but an anomaly that should remain our goal. unfortunately the environment was different back then, so we can't expect to do what we did back then to produce the same results today.

I truly believe the secret to egalitarianism does not lie in returning to high tax rates on profits. Rather we need to lower the cost of property which can be done by increasing supply and having a tax which penalises the under-utilisation of property.

If we had more affordable property we would have cheaper lower living costs including lower rents, interest repayments, lower retail costs, cheaper food etc

Unfortunately the self interest of Australia's Lords would be against any effort to tackle the real problem.

 

[The_Reaper]

the article seems to focus on the problem and not the cause.

yes, I do believe the post war era was an anomaly but an anomaly that should remain our goal. unfortunately the environment was different back then, so we can't expect to do what we did back then to produce the same results today.

I truly believe the secret to egalitarianism does not lie in returning to high tax rates on profits. Rather we need to lower the cost of property which can be done by increasing supply and having a tax which penalises the under-utilisation of property.

If we had more affordable property we would have cheaper lower living costs including lower rents, interest repayments, lower retail costs, cheaper food etc

Unfortunately the self interest of Australia's Lords would be against any effort to tackle the real problem.

Wouldn't that be almost impossible to enforce?

 

[Long Live HFC]

How so?

heard of the great depression? what about the banking panics of the 19th C?

 

[Long Live HFC]

Funny how that graph cuts out at 2008.

what's funny about it exactly? you do realise there was a sharp (short) period of deflation in 08-09 yeah?

Got anything a bit more relevant i.e. including the past half decade?

how would including an extra 5 years make the 60-year period that much more relevant? even if an updated graph showed a change in the longterm trend, would that make vapid's assertion any less wrong?

Or which cites nominal and real?

feel free to read the link rather than looking at the pictures.

 

[Ripper]

heard of the great depression? what about the banking panics of the 19th C?

Both caused by excessive credit creation prior, just like the GFC.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Nothing is perfect, the big thing going for the gold standard is that you cannot print gold.

sure you can. you just change the exchange rate between $$ and gold (like FDR did in the 30s).

 

[Long Live HFC]

Both caused by excessive credit creation prior, just like the GFC.

the gold standard was also responsible for sending the panic global, and making the depression "great".