Society/Culture Constable Butcher gets $3.3 Million Payout.

[medusala]

So that justifies your position in relation to this matter?

I hardly need to justify the position that policing should first and foremost be about protecting the public. If the state cant do that then there is little point in it existing.

Jail works. That (despite the propaganda spewed out by Fairfax et al) is a fact.

Always amusing to see people attempt to make the argument that people cant be trusted because they are idiots and that government is somehow the repository of all wisdom. How dare people complain about crime.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I judge the personality of the individual by his actions. Read the following:

Robert McLeod, a former boxer, was lucky not to go to jail 13 years ago for an ``unprovoked gratuitous act of senseless violence''.

He was fined $4000 in 1996 when he was convicted by a jury of assault causing grievous bodily harm, and was told by Judge Peter Williams he was very fortunate to get off without a jail sentence.
The maximum sentence was five years jail.

Mr McLeod, then 43, punched and kicked an opposition goalkeeper in a veterans' social soccer match. He felled the keeper with a round-arm punch to the back of the head as he caught the ball, then kicked him full in the face when he fell to the ground, breaking his nose.

The judge said the incident would have been disturbing for the daughter of victim Ian Nelson. Aged 8, she had been standing behind the goal talking to her father during the game at Warrandyte Reserve, Craigie.

This info was from article - McLeod family no strangers to troubleArticle from: PerthNow (original link is no longer valid on Perth Now but i found it in http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=56170398158&topic=7798. )

You can't judge one individual situation with another and then take the view that the first situation proves that the person in question is a thug. Besides the older man was the victim this time I thought was tasered and had a heart condition as well. Thus creating the head butt situation leaving Butcher crippled. All things aren't as they seem
about a million theories are out there about that night and you nor I were there, and a jury found them not guilty. Enough said. Never judge from what you presume, you might be right you might be wrong but if you weren't there then you are probably a million miles out of touch. Don't believe what the news papers tell you either, its their job to liven things up .

 

[JoondalupJ]

What a fine upstanding piece of Pommy s**t! I bet he's never taken out Australian Citizenship.

For me the term pommy is an endearment , I'm a 5th generation anglo aussie,your comment is sounding nasty mate. Poms, take this term pom as a friendly , as most of you do, I know. But comments like the one I'm responding to, might make some of you
want it stopped from being used, I like it, and so do my pommy mates, including my best man many years ago , who , when he moved to my home town Melbourne in the 70's was nick named Pom by all my friends and he's still there and still "pom".

 

[JoondalupJ]

That's all he's ever been really and that's why lot of the boys don't rate him at all.
Not only is Johnson a scumbag he's as thick as s**t and has always has been, to make him Police Minister was not only a disgrace but an insult to the WA Police Service. Oops not allowed to call it Service any more.

You an ex as well mate.Gee all you experts all retired all opinionated, ha ha ha !!
ps Johnson isn't that bright true, but your just rude man.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Thanks for the free analysis of my character. I won't have to go for that free personality test with the Scientologists now .

Even the full phone video footage does not show how the whole thing started, so a fair level of assumption is required on your behalf. I just watched, not the 34 second link that you put up. The 2 min 30 clip and I am none the wiser as what exactly happened. That is why there was a court case and the person responsible for the headbutt was found not guilty.

I cannot make it clear enough. I do not condone what happened and I feel for Matt Butcher. But, just as emotions got out of control on that day. They are on this board with assumptions and guesses in place of fact.

Absolutely correct. Every know all on this site assumes assumes assumes, when they actually like 99.9% of us know nothing about that night at all. The longer clip and shorter clip tell very little , you hardly know whats happening , the head butt looks like a jumble of people falling. Its time to stop this one.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

You can't judge one individual situation with another and then take the view that the first situation proves that the person in question is a thug.

He's not a thug? He's actually a nice & charming man? Ok then - whatever you say.

 

[JoondalupJ]

He's not a thug? He's actually a nice & charming man? Ok then - whatever you say.

Do you know him personally? Or do you know him from media talk and a lot of maybes' that might have happened in a few seconds on one night.I don't know him or them in fact but you can't be judgemental on second or third hand information. Especially on a site like this when everybody is safely tucked behind a keyboard.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Do you know him personally? Or do you know him from media talk and a lot of maybes' that might have happened in a few seconds on one night.I don't know him or them in fact but you can't be judgemental on second or third hand information. Especially on a site like this when everybody is safely tucked behind a keyboard.

What ****ing planet are you on? Are you saying he didn't actually kick that man in the face while his young daughter watched on? Are you saying he was not convicted of GBH?

So i can't pass judgement on him as i don't know him? Ok then. I've never met a serial killer but according to you i can't pass judgement on them either. Aside from all the slaughetring or torture they do they might be ****in great blokes to have a beer with if i actually met them!

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Three years on, Team McLeod continue to delay at every opportunity...

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/i...-for-civil-action-closure-20140523-zrldu.html

 

[Dont be a lemon]

That article says nothing about them delaying.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

No it doesn't. But more than three years later they're still not ready to present their case in court.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/26012135/police-union-opposes-brawl-payout/

 

[Bomberboyokay]

"Mr McLeod had a heart attack during the incident and was in a coma for three days."

That got minimal media attention back in the day

 

[Illinois Nazi]

"Mr McLeod had a heart attack during the incident and was in a coma for three days."

That got minimal media attention back in the day

You think? I thought everybody knew that. Maybe the coma wouldn't have been so bad if his sons weren't assaulting police while they were doing first aid on him.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Innocent in a court of law

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Innocent in a court of law

Courts don't find people "innocent", they find them "not guilty". It's not actually disputed that McLeod delivered the blow that crippled Butcher, or that he attacked police while they were trying to aid his father. (Nor is it disputed that Butcher fired the taser at McLeod sr. for that matter)

 

[Bomberboyokay]

The court determined the police had gone over the line (big shock) and the civilians were not guilty.

His injuries were irrelevant to that and appropriately the WA Government had to pay for it.

 

[JoondalupJ]

You think? I thought everybody knew that. Maybe the coma wouldn't have been so bad if his sons weren't assaulting police while they were doing first aid on him.

That's wrong to a degree, the man Butcher was tasering the father at the time the younger McLoed attacked him , his father was on the ground. The latest TV footage released is a touch more than what we got at the actual time.

I don't know exactly, but I live in the area and had heard talk from about what happened , and I will not comment on that incident in detail or individuals but not is all it seems.

Say what you like about how I am telling this , I don't care.

What I'll do is qualify my thoughts from what I heard, it may be true, it may be exaggerated, this Joondalup thing.

Mr Butchers injuries are terrible, and every ones sympathy goes out to him.

My thought is this to think on.
I believe that the police reaction is so over the top on occasions that they sometimes target by mistake the wrong people, in their nervousness and their need to get a job done.

They can also be as aggressive as the people they go to help, or arrest.

I had a belief that at the time of this happening, the so called villains were helping to remove some other drunk tradies from the pub.

Now I'm not sure, but it leaves all things open to who did what, not only that, but WHY, they did it as well.

Why would a bloke attack someone so vigorously if something else wasn't going on, things don't just occur for nothing.

Because I heard this from more than one individual and I don't know the McLoeds from a bar of soap. , and what we should be doing is shutting up.
Because it might all be bullshit, but that's not the feeling I get. But what would I know, no more than any of you on big footy.

I have never heard anyone dispute that or acknowledge it happened.

In fact I thought that the whole thing was finished , but seems that some people feel badly done by, and the government might be seeing it the same way. The Police Union are absolutely in the right to protest an out of court settlement. But you know the union people weren't there either. Nor was the government, but something bad sure as hell happened.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

That's wrong to a degree, the man Butcher was tasering the father at the time the younger McLoed attacked him , his father was on the ground. The latest TV footage released is a touch more than what we got at the actual time.

You're completely wrong. Unless by "on the ground" you mean "standing upright".



He wasn't on the ground, this is not a situation where the footage is at all unclear. At 0:25 you see Mcleod Snr grab a police officer from behind, and apparently punch him repeatedly in the gut. From about 0:30-0:42 he grapples with the police officer, and looks like he's got the cop's shirt by the collar/throat, at 0:47 he's tasered and takes two steps away from butcher. At 0.49 you see him standing, arguing with butcher, at 0:50-0.52 when his son attacks butcher from behind his dad is still standing watching.

I think three things are really obvious about this-

In retrospect, I think the verdict in the original criminal trial was both legally understandable and really really disappointing. McLeod's lawyer latched onto the one thing which is slightly questionable about the police conduct (butcher taking a step towards McLeod with the taser after he'd tased him), and somehow managed to get the jury to fixate on that rather than look at what occured in the context of an ongoing fight- the proposition which arises, that you're allowed to try to seriously injure a police officer if, in the middle of a 2 minute melee with you and your family, he does something for a split second which makes you think he might be going to endanger one of your family members, is just absurd- but it happened, it was open to the jury to decide that, and there's nothing anyone can do about it now.

Putting the legal situation aside for a second, people will make their own minds up about this incident (and most have long ago) my own opinion is that the Mcleods are subhuman scum. The father has a violent dickhead record long before this incident, and whatever they were doing before this incident kicked off, they punched on in the street with police for a good 1-2 minutes, including doing some pretty cowardly things (Poor infirm Mr McLeod Snr grabbing a police officer from behind and punching him in the gut, for example) the idea that is somehow ever explainable or justifiable is insane. They were behaving like thugs, frankly, if the dad had carked it there or if a police officer had gone for the glock rather than a taser and gunned down either him or his violent moron son, the world would be a better place in every way.

Lastly, the police union need to calm down and get over themselves. In every potential claim against government its appropriate that the insurers explore the possibility of settling- at the end of the day it is taxpayer money, and if they think there's a good chance McLeod would succeed in getting court ordered compensation, the insurers are obliged to at least look at the possibility of settling it if its cheaper. No sane government minister is ever going to tick off on a settlement in this case, so its all a bit of a nothing story really.

 

[JoondalupJ]

You're completely wrong. Unless by "on the ground" you mean "standing upright".



He wasn't on the ground, this is not a situation where the footage is at all unclear. At 0:25 you see Mcleod Snr grab a police officer from behind, and apparently punch him repeatedly in the gut. From about 0:30-0:42 he grapples with the police officer, and looks like he's got the cop's shirt by the collar/throat, at 0:47 he's tasered and takes two steps away from butcher. At 0.49 you see him standing, arguing with butcher, at 0:50-0.52 when his son attacks butcher from behind his dad is still standing watching.

I think three things are really obvious about this-

In retrospect, I think the verdict in the original criminal trial was both legally understandable and really really disappointing. McLeod's lawyer latched onto the one thing which is slightly questionable about the police conduct (butcher taking a step towards McLeod with the taser after he'd tased him), and somehow managed to get the jury to fixate on that rather than look at what occured in the context of an ongoing fight- the proposition which arises, that you're allowed to try to seriously injure a police officer if, in the middle of a 2 minute melee with you and your family, he does something for a split second which makes you think he might be going to endanger one of your family members, is just absurd- but it happened, it was open to the jury to decide that, and there's nothing anyone can do about it now.

Putting the legal situation aside for a second, people will make their own minds up about this incident (and most have long ago) my own opinion is that the Mcleods are subhuman scum. The father has a violent dickhead record long before this incident, and whatever they were doing before this incident kicked off, they punched on in the street with police for a good 1-2 minutes, including doing some pretty cowardly things (Poor infirm Mr McLeod Snr grabbing a police officer from behind and punching him in the gut, for example) the idea that is somehow ever explainable or justifiable is insane. They were behaving like thugs, frankly, if the dad had carked it there or if a police officer had gone for the glock rather than a taser and gunned down either him or his violent moron son, the world would be a better place in every way.

Lastly, the police union need to calm down and get over themselves. In every potential claim against government its appropriate that the insurers explore the possibility of settling- at the end of the day it is taxpayer money, and if they think there's a good chance McLeod would succeed in getting court ordered compensation, the insurers are obliged to at least look at the possibility of settling it if its cheaper. No sane government minister is ever going to tick off on a settlement in this case, so its all a bit of a nothing story really.

Sorry mate, he attacked the police officer for tasering his father who was having a heart attack, whether he was standing or laying or living or dying doesn't matter, the police were tasering and we've seen what this does, may as well shot him dead .

Now what would you do in a completely confused loud vicious punch up and you saw that. By the way if he was on the ground or standing up what does that say anyway he was still getting tasered . Maybe you look at things in a different way to me.

But nothing happens for nothing , the court case found that out, so unless you are 100 % absolutely on your life in total knowledge of every second of that incident , maybe .

But then you call them sub human scum and morons that's when you lose any credibility. As I said you may find the reason they were involved in something bad in the first place, before police came , perhaps was not their fault at the start.

If the father was a person with form why does that make any difference, you don't taser people then "maybe " go again, bad luck for a police officer who makes a move after causing a heart attack with his first burst. Scum or not, means nothing.

I said and I'll say again , sometimes police have to face so much crap and agro and violence , that I imagine they are pretty frightened when they enter a serious street brawl with big tradesmen involved, and at times really over do the hammer.

As I said if he was tasering the hell out of the older man, or was going to, he may as well have shot him with a gun.

No one explains the reason these blokes were brawling either. Who can tell?

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

JJ's view of policing

"Excuse me burly drunken thug who has me by the throat. I'm possibly considering tasering you and given how dangerous it is would you mind possibly filling out a quick questionnaire about any medical conditions or pre existing injuries? I just need to know so I can choose an appropriate force option. No? Ok well I'm going to just go ahead and risk it, but don't stress because if if you're concerned you can just get one of your mates to let me know - probably the easiest way to clue me in on your medical history is just to have him run up behind me and fracture my skull, that'd be fine."

 

[clogged]

This subject really draws out the dipshits of WA.

 

[RobbyRoy]

It's absolutely staggering that Barry McLeod was never charged with an assault on Butcher. His father could have been a frail old invalid and Butcher could've tasered him a hundred times; McLeod still did what he did, and what he did was absolutely ridiculous. I think all of us "keyboard warriors" at home know what kind of people the McLeods are, but all that aside, just an insane case.

 

[Can Opener]

If the McCleods win a substantial pay out could the injured cop then sue them for some of their money??

 

[Slax]

At least the WAS government is willing to settle. The Victoria police under the power hungryu, fat ugly, self indulgent b***h that is Christine Nixon, put road blocks and delays at every turn for Victoria Police trying to claim compensation through the internal means that existed. She destroyed lives of officers who had lost their career and were just looking to move on with their lives. the Victorian government were complacent in this and after she retired and the new administration went to settle it the new Victorian government then tried to block it.

(this is based on personal experience of having seen what it has done to people very close to me and I personally would piss on Christine Nixon or any Victorian Police Minister of the last decade if they were on fire, I'm more likely to pour petrol on them and toast marshmallows. If you think I'm over the top PM me and i will discuss)