Could we still make the eight with out Maric?

[RunningBounce]

Are we too heavily reliant on crazy eyes?

Maric is probably my favourite Tiger, and IMO, he is one of our 3 most important players. Even though I rate him so highly, I'd be surprised if neutral supporters even rated him in the top 5 ruckmen in the AFL.

I don't think it's healthy for us to rely so heavily on a small number of players, the way we do. He fills a definite void for us, and maybe it would be better if every player contributed a bit more grunt and poke around the contested footy. Too many times there are players standing back, worrying about their blouse getting creased, while Ivan steamrolls through the packs.

 

[Tiger71]

After identifying last season that our game plan is heavily reliant on our contest ball and having Maric do alot of grunt work at stoppages plus his superior aerial work around the ground offering a marking option down the line for the kick up the ground to a contest center wing etc....
The evidence was there with the win/loss with and with out Maric.

Are we too heavily reliant on crazy eyes?

Yes we are to reliant and that is our Achilles heel. We need to develop his replacement ASAP or develop a center mix that will perform with out him. What impacted us also, and it staggers me that we went this path was having Hampson as our number 1 ruck in the early rounds. In defense of Hampson, he only had a limited pre season, so you could see that he was lost in the sense his center work was limited as he was still learning our center plays etc. So we only had about 3 plays to use as he learnt on the job.

When Maric came in our contested work exploded because Maric and our mids could use plan A,B.C, etc and mix it up and not be so predictable. I still have Hope that Tyrone can develop into that second ruck next year who finally graduates to the first ruck spot. He is a smart player, can be dangerous around ground and has a decent pair of hands to be the hit up target from transition from defense to attack or attack to defense.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

2 Players we can't afford to lose.Ivan & Rance.
Short term would make it tough to make it(but achievable) if either went down
Long term,No chance of making it if either went down.

 

[nut]

2 Players we can't afford to lose.Ivan & Rance.
Short term would make it tough to make it(but achievable) if either went down
Long term,No chance of making it if either went down.

It's why I am hopeful the club knows this and is putting in place a game plan that is less reliant on him... And Rance for that matter.

 

[tugga]

of course we would...we have Hampson

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

of course we would...we have Hampson

Thanks for reminding us Tugg .

 

[Infamy]

I think we could make it without him. His absence last year was made far worse by the absence of Rance & Deledio, plus Deledio took a few weeks to get back into form. If we can't make it without him then there is something seriously wrong to be so dependent on one player.

 

[Tiger_man322]

Maric out. Hampson comes in. So no. We can't.

 

[tugga]

Thanks for reminding us Tugg .

He'll tear it up next year. Mark my words. Top 6 in our B&F.

 

[Tiger68]

I'm clearly in the minority here, and no need to tell me that I am, I think Maric is overrated. He's a real work horse and embodies our spirit but he gets towelled up by quality opposition. The hit outs he does get are defensive hit outs and seldom put us to advantage.

The last quarter of the EF v Calton we were beaten badly out of the centre and it cost the game. Similarly, even though Maric played well around the ground, that first quarter in the port EF we were dominated out of the middle. We lost the hit outs on the day 27 to 40, you can't win with that domination(It was the biggest stat deferential the day). Goldstein similarly dominated Maric. For all his knockers, Hampson is second only to Sandilands in effective fit outs to advantage by percentage of contests attended. 20% of the ruck contests he attens results in a hit out to advantage. Sure he needs to do more around the ground but he has something to work with imo. I have no doubt we would performed better in that first quarter against port with Hampson providing first use. He would have beaten Lobe at centre bounces.

Maric is a toiler imo, we will struggle to beat premium sides when we a being flogged out of the centre.

Now, after poking the bear, I'll go away and hide for a while.........

 

[TigerTime88]

We should be looking at drafting a long term replacement.

 

[theflea]

We should be looking at drafting a long term replacement.

Soldo is the man.

 

[Mr Magic]

I'bclearly in the minority here, and no need to tell me that I am, I think Maric is overrated. He's a real work horse and embodies our spirit but he gets towelled up by quality opposition. The hit outs he does get are defensive hit outs and seldom put us to advantage.

The last quarter of the EF v Calton we were beaten badly out of the centre and it cost the game. Similarly, even though Maric played well around the ground, that first quarter in the port EF we were dominated out of the middle. We lost the hit outs on the day 27 to 40, you can't win with that domination(It was the biggest stat deferential the day). Goldstein similarly dominated Maric. For all his knockers, Hampson is second only to Sandilands in effective fit outs to advantage by percentage of contests attended. 20% of the ruck contests he attens results in a hit out to advantage. Sure he needs to do more around the ground but he has something to work with imo. I have no doubt we would performed better in that first quarter against port with Hampson providing first use. He would have beaten Lobe at centre bounces.

Maric is a toiler imo, we will struggle to beat premium sides when we a being flogged out of the centre.

Now, after poking the bear, I'll go away and hide for a while.........

Why worry about the bear? Maric is 29 he will not be hardly playing at 34. If we get Grimley we have some good support for the next 6 years allowing for others to develop for next to nothing!

You could keep Grimley and Hampson and see how the others develop when Maric retires.

 

[RunningBounce]

but he gets towelled up by quality opposition. The hit outs he does get are defensive hit outs and seldom put us to advantage.

I'm a Maric fan, but I tend to agree. I wasn't sure how to put it in my post above. He doesn't have the athletic abilities to match the likes of Goldstein, Sandi or Nic Nat at ball ups.

Sometimes, like the last 2 EFs, that costs us. I'd also add, though, that the real damage was done by Judd and Gibbs in 2013, and Boak in 2014. Not much Maric could do about that.

It comes down to team balance. I think our midfielders are light on for winning contested ground ball, or more accurately, they don't often enough knock the opposition over and create opportunities for their team mates. That's why Maric is so critical for us, even though he is sometimes beaten by his direct opponent.

 

[nut]

I'm clearly in the minority here, and no need to tell me that I am, I think Maric is overrated. He's a real work horse and embodies our spirit but he gets towelled up by quality opposition. The hit outs he does get are defensive hit outs and seldom put us to advantage.

The last quarter of the EF v Calton we were beaten badly out of the centre and it cost the game. Similarly, even though Maric played well around the ground, that first quarter in the port EF we were dominated out of the middle. We lost the hit outs on the day 27 to 40, you can't win with that domination(It was the biggest stat deferential the day). Goldstein similarly dominated Maric. For all his knockers, Hampson is second only to Sandilands in effective fit outs to advantage by percentage of contests attended. 20% of the ruck contests he attens results in a hit out to advantage. Sure he needs to do more around the ground but he has something to work with imo. I have no doubt we would performed better in that first quarter against port with Hampson providing first use. He would have beaten Lobe at centre bounces.

Maric is a toiler imo, we will struggle to beat premium sides when we a being flogged out of the centre.

Now, after poking the bear, I'll go away and hide for a while.........

Marics ruck work is just 10% of his make .... Over rated WOW.

 

[Tiger68]

We should be looking at drafting a long term replacement.

Give it 1-2 years I reckon to see what we might have in Griifiths, Vickery, Soldo, Hampson. I think we might have one ourselves in that lot.

 

[Tiger68]

I'm a Maric fan, but I tend to agree. I wasn't sure how to put it in my post above. He doesn't have the athletic abilities to match the likes of Goldstein, Sandi or Nic Nat at ball ups.

Sometimes, like the last 2 EFs, that costs us. I'd also add, though, that the real damage was done by Judd and Gibbs in 2013, and Boak in 2014. Not much Maric could do about that.

It comes down to team balance. I think our midfielders are light on for winning contested ground ball, or more accurately, they don't often enough knock the opposition over and create opportunities for their team mates. That's why Maric is so critical for us, even though he is sometimes beaten by his direct opponent.

Good post, he is important in our current line up and he is influential many games. I would hope for a step up in class at some point down the track.

 

[Tiger68]

Marics ruck work is just 10% of his make .... Over rated WOW.

Depends on your perspective on ruck work, I still rate it but many don't in the modern game. I think a clear hit out to advantage is about the best contested ball win you can have. You win a true 50/50 contest and put it clearly to advantage and you set your team on its way. It's a 100m play compared to the alternative of clearly loosing the ruck contest. You only need to do that 4 or 5 times a game and it's huge. It's like 5 critical hard ball gets, not many midfielders will get those numbers.

 

[tigerdan]

Without him for the full year? No I don't think so (mind you, we do have a good draw). I think it's the main reason why we had a s**t start to 2014 with Maric missing all those games and being forced to carry Hampson.

Having said that, pretty much any club missing their #1 ruckman for the whole year is going to be in the s**t. It's not like many clubs can carry Matty Allen in the 2s anymore.

Draft a young ruckman and maybe rookie another and we should be as well prepared as we could hope for. Griffiths can pinch hit in the ruck if he has to. Everyone thinks he is a spud but that was why we drafted Hampson. To provide backup in case of injury.

Edit: I forgot Vickery. Hope he finally realises that he is 200cm and therefore should be able to crunch anyone on the ground. He is a squib as a centre bounce ruckman and just capable at boundary throwins (except when the ball is at jaw level ). Unless he grows some cojones I think he will be a forward not a ruck. Actually I think he might struggle to play many games next year but that's another story.

At the end of the day you can't have a perfect backup for every position on the ground so just have to make the best call we can.

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

I'm clearly in the minority here, and no need to tell me that I am, I think Maric is overrated. He's a real work horse and embodies our spirit but he gets towelled up by quality opposition. The hit outs he does get are defensive hit outs and seldom put us to advantage.

The last quarter of the EF v Calton we were beaten badly out of the centre and it cost the game. Similarly, even though Maric played well around the ground, that first quarter in the port EF we were dominated out of the middle. We lost the hit outs on the day 27 to 40, you can't win with that domination(It was the biggest stat deferential the day). Goldstein similarly dominated Maric. For all his knockers, Hampson is second only to Sandilands in effective fit outs to advantage by percentage of contests attended. 20% of the ruck contests he attens results in a hit out to advantage. Sure he needs to do more around the ground but he has something to work with imo. I have no doubt we would performed better in that first quarter against port with Hampson providing first use. He would have beaten Lobe at centre bounces.

Maric is a toiler imo, we will struggle to beat premium sides when we a being flogged out of the centre.

Now, after poking the bear, I'll go away and hide for a while.........

Maric is solid and strong in stoppages where he can use his body though he gets beaten in center bounces by taller or more athletic opponents.
He's also solid around the ground, and when in form is good at filling holes and providing an out.
He's no superstar but he's a competitive beast and the best ruck option we have by a country mile.

 

[tigerdan]

I'm clearly in the minority here, and no need to tell me that I am, I think Maric is overrated. He's a real work horse and embodies our spirit but he gets towelled up by quality opposition. The hit outs he does get are defensive hit outs and seldom put us to advantage.

The last quarter of the EF v Calton we were beaten badly out of the centre and it cost the game. Similarly, even though Maric played well around the ground, that first quarter in the port EF we were dominated out of the middle. We lost the hit outs on the day 27 to 40, you can't win with that domination(It was the biggest stat deferential the day). Goldstein similarly dominated Maric. For all his knockers, Hampson is second only to Sandilands in effective fit outs to advantage by percentage of contests attended. 20% of the ruck contests he attens results in a hit out to advantage. Sure he needs to do more around the ground but he has something to work with imo. I have no doubt we would performed better in that first quarter against port with Hampson providing first use. He would have beaten Lobe at centre bounces.

Maric is a toiler imo, we will struggle to beat premium sides when we a being flogged out of the centre.

Now, after poking the bear, I'll go away and hide for a while.........

Yeah I get your point but hey he's the best option we have. A nice solid player a bit like Stafford. Does the job and crunches the packs. At least he's got balls. You don't have to win every tapout but you do need the opposition ruckmen and especially onballers to be worried about getting crunched.

Not every team can have a gun ruckman, and there are plenty of worse ruckmen than Maric to have premiership medals. It would be nice if we had a replacement player coming through the ranks but I think we have bigger weaknesses to focus on. Would still hope we draft a genuine ruck this year though.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

It's why I am hopeful the club knows this and is putting in place a game plan that is less reliant on him... And Rance for that matter.

Not sure why you would change a game plan/style to make us less reliant on Ivan,You take away his strengths.Should be upto those below him too compliment Ivans work.

 

[RunningBounce]

there are plenty of worse players than Maric to have premiership medals.

Absolutely!

David Hale, 2014 (Probably a better player, but not a better ruckman)
Max Bailey, 2013
Mike Pyke, 2012

 

[nut]

Depends on your perspective on ruck work, I still rate it but many don't in the modern game. I think a clear hit out to advantage is about the best contested ball win you can have. You win a true 50/50 contest and put it clearly to advantage and you set your team on its way. It's a 100m play compared to the alternative of clearly loosing the ruck contest. You only need to do that 4 or 5 times a game and it's huge. It's like 5 critical hard ball gets, not many midfielders will get those numbers.

Hampson is our best tap ruck statistically...... hit outs to advantage etc..... but is a liability in all other areas of his game.

 

[sante]

How come no mods have deleted their posts? It's not on topic?