Scandal Cy Walsh not guilty of murdering Phil Walsh due to mental incompetence

[Iron]

In an adversarial legal system how can that be avoided?

If so should he not be tried for murder plus the lesser included charge of manslaughter?

If he's charged only with murder, found not guilty coz of whatever, does he not then walk free?

I'm not in charge of the legal case, how should I know? I never implied he'd walk free. That would be outrageous. If he's proven to be mentally unstable he'll go to an institution and he'll likely not see sunlight ever again anyway.

 

[Asgardian]

In a situation like this, pleading not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect would not involve attempting to justify the crime in any way - therefore there is no reason to drag Phil Walsh's name through the mud. It really depends on the particulars of the case - the defence might choose to present some evidence of hostility in the father/son relationship which provided the seed for a mentally ill person having a psychotic episode to act against him. But it's more likely they would leave that alone. It's really not the best way to handle such a defence. There is no way to justify maniacally stabbing your father to death. The only reasonable thing to say is that he had a psychotic break and that in his normal state, he would not have wanted to kill his father. If a defence proves he had reason to kill his father, there goes his mental disease or defect defence, and he'd get life in prison.

I appreciate your comments, you sound as if you know the system, I don't, I'm just guessing, a question though.

Hasn't there been successful defenses where the person has claimed a preemptive strike is justified because of the build up of fear for that persons future safety? The wife killing her ultra-abusive husband while he slept for example? Can that not be explained as the wife having a mental break?

You are right and I do believe in innocent until proven guilty. I'm no lawyer but I doubt if it will be possible for both sides to get a fair trial.

It sounds like the type of a trial that could go on for ages.

I can imagine the uproar if the DPP only went for murder charge in the Allison Baden Clay case.

Your username is apt, so many dark issues.

I'm not in charge of the legal case, how should I know?

Settle down, I was only asking about legal stuff for which I do not know the answers

I never implied he'd walk free. That would be outrageous. If he's proven to be mentally unstable he'll go to an institution and he'll likely not see sunlight ever again anyway.

Hopefully

 

[Ando727]

I appreciate your comments, you sound as if you know the system, I don't, I'm just guessing, a question though.

Hasn't there been successful defenses where the person has claimed a preemptive strike is justified because of the build up of fear for that persons future safety? The wife killing her ultra-abusive husband while he slept for example? Can that not be explained as the wife having a mental break?

Yes, this is the classic "battered spouse" defence (formerly called the "battered wife" defence, but now it's equal opportunity). It's a different style of defence than the mental illness defence. It's not a psychotic episode, it is actually an attempt to prove the killing of the violent spouse was justified and necessary to save one's own life. The battered spouse defence puts the focus on the violent spouse an what the defendant had to do to protect themselves from them. The mentally defect defence puts the focus on the illness within the defendant and that person not knowing what they were doing or not understanding the consequences. I have no doubt that Cy Walsh's defence will resemble the latter rather than the former.

 

[Asgardian]

Yes, this is the classic "battered spouse" defence (formerly called the "battered wife" defence, but now it's equal opportunity). It's a different style of defence than the mental illness defence. It's not a psychotic episode, it is actually an attempt to prove the killing of the violent spouse was justified and necessary to save one's own life. The battered spouse defence puts the focus on the violent spouse an what the defendant had to do to protect themselves from them. The mentally defect defence puts the focus on the illness within the defendant and that person not knowing what they were doing or not understanding the consequences. I have no doubt that Cy Walsh's defence will resemble the latter rather than the former.

Okay, cool, I thought the first defence was accompanied with the latter as a secondary condition. Like I said, I don't know the system, just watch too much Law & Order ...

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Cy Walsh re-enters mental incompetence murder plea over father Phil's stabbing death

More than 100 witness statements from family, friends and Adelaide Crows identities have been tendered to the court over the death of former football coach Phil Walsh.

Mr Walsh was aged 55 when died last July after suffering multiple stab wounds at his house at Somerton Park in Adelaide's western suburbs.

During the Supreme Court hearing, Cy Walsh, 27, appeared via video link from James Nash House, charged with murdering his father.

Cy re-entered his not guilty plea, claiming he was mentally incompetent the night Mr Walsh was killed.

The court heard evidence would include psychiatric reports and CCTV vision.

The case will return to court on April 1 for a directions hearing.

At the next hearing the court will have three psychiatric reports.

One of the three reports will be from the acting director at James Nash House, where Walsh is currently staying.

The court heard the acting director would have to read through a large volume of material and interview Walsh to decide his competency and his fitness to enter his not guilty please due to mental incompetence.

At least two of the reports will support a mental incompetence defence, the court has heard.

Many details about the case remain banned from publication but the prosecutor said there would be a time when all details of the case would be known.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-01/cy-walsh-mental-incompetence-murder-defence/7128638

 

[Smoky]

If people are addicted to ice then they should not be allowed the defence of mental in capacities

 

[Bomberboyokay]

If people are addicted to ice then they should not be allowed the defence of mental in capacities

How do you figure?

 

[marty36]

If people are addicted to ice then they should not be allowed the defence of mental in capacities

You could say that about any mind altering drug including weed, not that I disagree!

 

[Oneiros]

If people are addicted to ice then they should not be allowed the defence of mental in capacities

Look, if ice has broken something upstairs for the guy, then a mental institution is where he needs to be where people are trained to deal with that sort of thing. Not arbitrarily put into a prison where he will be a never-ending problem for staff and other inmates. It's not like he'd be getting out either way.

 

[Smoky]

Look, if ice has broken something upstairs for the guy, then a mental institution is where he needs to be where people are trained to deal with that sort of thing. Not arbitrarily put into a prison where he will be a never-ending problem for staff and other inmates. It's not like he'd be getting out either way.

You make that choice... then don't use it as your excuse.


I stole a car...

I freaked out cause i was breaking the law...

I was mentally incapacitated.



You choose ice.

Then commit a crime.

Don't blame ice.

 

[Smoky]

Look, if ice has broken something upstairs for the guy, then a mental institution is where he needs to be where people are trained to deal with that sort of thing. Not arbitrarily put into a prison where he will be a never-ending problem for staff and other inmates. It's not like he'd be getting out either way.

Prison is where a murderer deserves to go... not somewhere where you can watch days of our lives every day off your head.

 

[Oneiros]

You make that choice... then don't use it as your excuse.


I stole a car...

I freaked out cause i was breaking the law...

I was mentally incapacitated.



You choose ice.

Then commit a crime.

Don't blame ice.

Can't say I agree with anything there. Once someone has lost their marbles it isn't a matter of punishment. There's no point, it's plain old past the point of mattering what choice was made by whom. I mean sure, you can have a good Internet Tough Guy fap about how hard on punishment you are, but it's useless and puts an unnecessary burden on the prison system and staff who are supposed to deal with convicts, not crazy people. Stick the crazy people in the crazy person care system and the not-crazy-but-criminal people in the criminal person system.

Very straight forward. You can't rehabilitate a crazy person in a jail, and you just get s**t outcomes for society as a whole if you try.

 

[Smoky]

Can't say I agree with anything there. Once someone has lost their marbles it isn't a matter of punishment. There's no point, it's plain old past the point of mattering what choice was made by whom. I mean sure, you can have a good Internet Tough Guy fap about how hard on punishment you are, but it's useless and puts an unnecessary burden on the prison system and staff who are supposed to deal with convicts, not crazy people. Stick the crazy people in the crazy person care system and the not-crazy-but-criminal people in the criminal person system.

Very straight forward. You can't rehabilitate a crazy person in a jail, and you just get s**t outcomes for society as a whole if you try.

Get ready for your taxes to go through the roof to accept every person who has smoked ice can commit a crime... blame mental incapacity and go to rehab as a punishment.

You do the crime... do the time...

Thats dead according to your post.

Do the crime... (blame ice)... get drugged up in a mental institution... get off those drugs... i.e rehabilitated... get let out... do it all again and kill someone else...

Brutal rubbish.


I was drunk... is not accepted as a reason to not send someone to jail for murder. But ice is!

Murder = Jail imo.

 

[Donners]

Murder = Jail imo.

Murder requires an intention to kill - which obviously depends on his mental state at the time.

A finding of not guilty by reason of mental impairment is no cakewalk. As I said earlier in the thread, it can result in a longer sentence of confinement than if the person was found guilty through regular means.

Confinement is confinement, whether in gaol or a secure forensic mental health hospital.

 

[Magus]

Prison is where a murderer deserves to go... not somewhere where you can watch days of our lives every day off your head.

A very idealistic way of looking at mental institutions...

 

[Donners]

If so should he not be tried for murder plus the lesser included charge of manslaughter?

If he's charged only with murder, found not guilty coz of whatever, does he not then walk free?

I'm not familiar with SA law, but it looks like manslaughter is available as a statutory alternative in a mental impairment case.

A person charged with an offence is taken, for the purposes of this Part, to be charged in the alternative with any lesser offence for which a conviction is possible on that charge.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/clca1935262/s269ba.html

 

[Smoky]

A very idealistic way of looking at mental institutions...

There are people who need help in these institutions. And that is exactly where those resources should focus on.

Flooding these institutions with people who commit crimes and blame smoking ice (their choice) as mental instability fills beds...

Forcing those who really need the help to not have beds... we're full... we can't help you cause someone else made a choice... and blamed that choice after murdering someone and therefore we can't treat your legitimate mental health issue.

I was on ice...

Means you don't have to accept full responsibility for your actions???

Wake up Australia

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Am I missing something with regards to this case and being on ice?

 

[The 747]

There are people who need help in these institutions. And that is exactly where those resources should focus on.

Flooding these institutions with people who commit crimes and blame smoking ice (their choice) as mental instability fills beds...

Forcing those who really need the help to not have beds... we're full... we can't help you cause someone else made a choice... and blamed that choice after murdering someone and therefore we can't treat your legitimate mental health issue.

I was on ice...

Means you don't have to accept full responsibility for your actions???

Wake up Australia

An institution for the criminally insane is not a place where a person is taking a bed from someone in need, it is a place where criminally insane people are confined.

And the problem with your perspective is that it leads to jailing people indefinitely which is a drain on resources, or to the death penalty. If you accept that rehabilitation is part of the system criminally insane by whatever reason people need to be rehabilitated because they will be released one day.

 

[Smoky]

An institution for the criminally insane is not a place where a person is taking a bed from someone in need, it is a place where criminally insane people are confined.

And the problem with your perspective is that it leads to jailing people indefinitely which is a drain on resources, or to the death penalty. If you accept that rehabilitation is part of the system criminally insane by whatever reason people need to be rehabilitated because they will be released one day.

Do you think that people who smoke ice and commit a crime should be classed as crimanally insane on the choice they smoked ice... or cause they created a terrible crime that they blame on smoking it?

 

[Magus]

Do you think that people who smoke ice and commit a crime should be classed as crimanally insane on the choice they smoked ice... or cause they created a terrible crime that they blame on smoking it?

Do you think you might be making assumptions on a case in which you have no details?

 

[DERIBERATE]

Prison is where a murderer deserves to go... not somewhere where you can watch days of our lives every day off your head.

But at the end when a person is considered for release, and if they're confined because of mental illness, you want a medical board deciding if he's competent - not a parole board which as informed as it can make itself is not qualified/specialised in mental illness. In a secure hospital he's monitored constantly chiefly for illness. In gaol he's a prisoner who may have periodic visits from the doctor.

Like someone said earlier, a mental hospital is not necessarily the soft alternative to gaol. The Derek Percies of this world never saw the light of day.

 

[The 747]

Do you think that people who smoke ice and commit a crime should be classed as crimanally insane on the choice they smoked ice... or cause they created a terrible crime that they blame on smoking it?

It's not as simple as a choice. Many factors contribute to mental illness, and poor choices. You seem to view being criminally insane as some sort of way of getting away with a crime. The crime is only a crime by definition if the mental element is present, where a person is of unsound mind the mental element is not present.

If a person is unwell, you have two choices either lock them up permanently (or kill them which is cheaper) or rehabilitate them. If they are unwell and you release them they are very likely going to create more problems for society.

 

[marty36]

It's not as simple as a choice. Many factors contribute to mental illness, and poor choices. You seem to view being criminally insane as some sort of way of getting away with a crime. The crime is only a crime by definition if the mental element is present, where a person is of unsound mind the mental element is not present.

If a person is unwell, you have two choices either lock them up permanently (or kill them which is cheaper) or rehabilitate them. If they are unwell and you release them they are very likely going to create more problems for society.

It is an arguement that will go around in circles like most, Cy probably wouldnt have become mentally Insane if he hadnt taken drugs (he might have but unlikely) which inturn caused him to kill his father. So his real crime was getting on ice and the rest follows. There could be the arguement that if he is rehabilitated he could always start taking again and the process starts again. There is no answer, and are we looking for punishment or rehabilitation or both? I would say both!

 

[The 747]

It is an arguement that will go around in circles like most, Cy probably wouldnt have become mentally Insane if he hadnt taken drugs (he might have but unlikely) which inturn caused him to kill his father. So his real crime was getting on ice and the rest follows. There could be the arguement that if he is rehabilitated he could always start taking again and the process starts again. There is no answer, and are we looking for punishment or rehabilitation or both? I would say both!

You can't know that.