Vic E/W Link / Metro Rail / Large projects

[Fletched]

looks like dan and co have negotiated the costs down from 2 billion to well under 1 billion, saving the state 16 billion for 12 billion return. 75c in the dollar business case

After 100 days not bad work given the huge bear trap the liberals left

Thats well over 10 billion free for use on more productive projects, road AND rail

I seem to be a minority in the middle who thinks all forms of investment are useful, so long as they are done sensibly

Great only throwing away a billion dollars what a great start!

I don't understand why it has to bring in a return? The Hume highway for example wasn't tolled so had little direct return but I think we can all agree benefits the state immensly and was a great investment

 

[Pessimistic]

Theres hints the western section may be built. looking like a half back flip

 

[Pessimistic]

What is so hard about saying the Libs did not have a mandate to sign documents and generous side letter offering compensation if the new government legislated against it? Why the haste?
LIEberals now grandstanding about the compensation the government will have to pay. Have they no shame?

They have discovered their best chance at government. kick up about waste (which seems to be a constant no matter which government) scare the punters with boats/terrorists. lies seem such a small thing in comparison

 

[swingdog]

Great only throwing away a billion dollars what a great start!

I don't understand why it has to bring in a return? The Hume highway for example wasn't tolled so had little direct return but I think we can all agree benefits the state immensly and was a great investment

When we talk about a return, we mean the sort of benefit you're talking about for the Hume. East-West was modeled to bring in 45 cents of benefit for every dollar spent on building and maintaining it. So, you're asking the state to throw away 55 cents in the dollar on a multi-billion dollar project.

 

[Docker Clint]

I reckon the last paragraph goes alright too lol

It's my personal fave.

 

[Fletched]

When we talk about a return, we mean the sort of benefit you're talking about for the Hume. East-West was modeled to bring in 45 cents of benefit for every dollar spent on building and maintaining it. So, you're asking the state to throw away 55 cents in the dollar on a multi-billion dollar project.

Oh ok but I still don't see how you can put a figure on how much benefit it would bring long term because once its built its always going to be there. Also the poulation will continue to rise over time

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...n-east-west-link/story-fni0fit3-1227156503410

According to this article if only the new road was tolled it would be payed off in 56 years without any other funding. Now what is wrong with that? Shouldn't the project just slowly pay itself off over time? Like how the AFL is slowly moving towards purchasing Docklands

 

[Pessimistic]

Oh ok but I still don't see how you can put a figure on how much benefit it would bring long term because once its built its always going to be there. Also the poulation will continue to rise over time

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...n-east-west-link/story-fni0fit3-1227156503410

According to this article if only the new road was tolled it would be payed off in 56 years without any other funding. Now what is wrong with that? Shouldn't the project just slowly pay itself off over time? Like how the AFL is slowly moving towards purchasing Docklands

Thats OK if someone provides the funding as well as normal road projects.

But if it makes funds scarce for other more worthwhile projects road and rail, its not good. Its in the wish list, but not near the top (unless you think operating a political wedge is the priority)

 

[pazza]

If we are to have a toll road, it needs to be like the old West Gate Bridge tools...Government run, 50c per trip. For those not old enough to remember, after opening in 1978, the West Gate was fully paid off by the end of 1986!

 

[Todman]

If we are to have a toll road, it needs to be like the old West Gate Bridge tools...Government run, 50c per trip. For those not old enough to remember, after opening in 1978, the West Gate was fully paid off by the end of 1986!

It wasn't fifty cents, it was sixty cents.

 

[pazza]

It wasn't fifty cents, it was sixty cents.

Still...the bridge was paid off very quickly, and got funnelled straight back into the Hamer, Thompson and Cain Government budgets - instead of how Citylink, Eastlink and likely this bloody tunnel would have it go back into private investment for 40-50 years (or more).

People in the northwest will never forgive Kennett for forcing them to pay tolls on the Tulla as part of Citylink.

 

[Todman]

Still...the bridge was paid off very quickly, and got funnelled straight back into the Hamer, Thompson and Cain Government budgets - instead of how Citylink, Eastlink and likely this bloody tunnel would have it go back into private investment for 40-50 years (or more).

People in the northwest will never forgive Kennett for forcing them to pay tolls on the Tulla as part of Citylink.

People in the east will never forgive Bracks for forcing them to pay polls on Eastlink.

 

[pazza]

People in the east will never forgive Bracks for forcing them to pay polls on Eastlink.

There is a difference.

The Tullamarine Freeway is an established road. Why would you toll it and the South-Eastern Freeway to Toorak Road?

Eastlink was an entirely new road.

Had the E-W Link been built, there would have been tolls on the Eastern Freeway. Nothing surer.

 

[Pessimistic]

People in the east will never forgive Bracks for forcing them to pay polls on Eastlink.

I never get that one. Eastlink has free alternatives for evey journey, which are probably less congested because of eastlink.

Contrast with citylink, which took over existin FREEways, funnelled traffic into it, imposed a punitive billing system on its users and more to the point, caused the westgate freeway south of the city to become a congestion point, which had to be fixed with yet more public money

You know, one of the projects under a labor government which opponents conveniently forget to list

 

[Maggie5]

I never get that one. Eastlink has free alternatives for evey journey, which are probably less congested because of eastlink.

Contrast with citylink, which took over existin FREEways, funnelled traffic into it, imposed a punitive billing system on its users and more to the point, caused the westgate freeway south of the city to become a congestion point, which had to be fixed with yet more public money

You know, one of the projects under a labor government which opponents conveniently forget to list

You can add Bell Street to that congestion, cars coming off to avoid the Moreland Road toll.

 

[Slax]

I never get that one. Eastlink has free alternatives for evey journey, which are probably less congested because of eastlink.

Contrast with citylink, which took over existin FREEways, funnelled traffic into it, imposed a punitive billing system on its users and more to the point, caused the westgate freeway south of the city to become a congestion point, which had to be fixed with yet more public money

You know, one of the projects under a labor government which opponents conveniently forget to list

I never get why the taxpayer didn't build Citylink in the first place, it was always going to make money. It shows why this preoccupation with government having no debt is so screwed up. If Citylink was taxpayer funded then the revenue could've gone to build other transport infrastructure and the government coffers would be so much better, but we were way to short sighted, which is the problem with government at all levels in this country, can't see past the next election.

As for E/W everyone might as well stop arguing, Abbott has come out of talks with Andrews and said publicly that it won't happen.

 

[Pessimistic]

Not immediately anyway. Its still on the wish list

 

[AM]

I never get why the taxpayer didn't build Citylink in the first place, it was always going to make money. It shows why this preoccupation with government having no debt is so screwed up. If Citylink was taxpayer funded then the revenue could've gone to build other transport infrastructure and the government coffers would be so much better, but we were way to short sighted, which is the problem with government at all levels in this country, can't see past the next election.

As for E/W everyone might as well stop arguing, Abbott has come out of talks with Andrews and said publicly that it won't happen.

Maybe he re-read the pesky thoughtless and amateurish wedge he attempted in his most recent letter. And how Dan made him look a fool with his reply. And his subsequent public comments that made him look even more churlish.

Oh! And isn't Simpkin the former head of the ABC' Canberra bureau doing a sterling job re-making the Mad Monks public image?

 

[Elroo]

People in the east will never forgive Bracks for forcing them to pay polls on Eastlink.

Tullmarine a road paid for by taxpayers & handed to a private company to impose a toll;
Eastlink a private road built by private enteprise charging a toll to recover their costs.

 

[RightorKhan]

Oh well looks like Abbotts attempts at bullying backfired into embarrassment to the point of publicly conceding he failed and the project isn't going ahead.

Now it's just a matter of getting that prick to hand over the funding for the metro rail project.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Still waiting for the contracts to be released.

Andrews continues to escape ridicule for telling a lie.

 

[Todman]

Tullmarine a road paid for by taxpayers & handed to a private company to impose a toll;
Eastlink a private road built by private enteprise charging a toll to recover their costs.

Transurban paid for the widening of the Tullamarine freeway south of Bell St.

 

[Pessimistic]

Still waiting for the contracts to be released.

Andrews continues to escape ridicule for telling a lie.

You dont think the release of documents is a bargaining chip ?

If substantial money is saved by putting the documents under a release later rule, is that acceptable ?

I believe the ombudsman will still be able to review the whole thing from start to end

 

[RightorKhan]

Still waiting for the contracts to be released.

Andrews continues to escape ridicule for telling a lie.

I don't really care. What more could they say that the business case already hasn't?

 

[Maggie5]

The important parts of the contract have been out there for some time.
Nothing more to see here, move on.

 

[telsor]

The important parts of the contract have been out there for some time.
Nothing more to see here, move on.

So it's not a broken promise if the (very) general gist is kinda sorta followed?