Daniel Menzel 'returned to footy' progress updates

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Farmer2Goggin

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I think a risk like Caddy is one worth punting on, his young and has upside.

Hmac was 28 and played something like 7 games in 3 years before this year. Was extremely risky to bring him in. And you could see that before he was recruited that it was a high chance of him not being a great move.

Good thoughts Alkanphel

I think as a Club we have been caught between rebuilding and contending with minor changes and I don't think we have done the latter at the level required ( performance in Finals since 2011 says that)
I think Caddy and Rivers has worked but I also believe we have carried too many players under injury clouds for too long.
Menzel , Simpson , Cowan , H Mac in particular and add in Vardy as well. We need to make calls on all at end 2015 else we continue to take List space with players who can't get on the park.
I hope Clark and Stanley repay our faith but Clark in particular is a higher than normal risk. Has worked for the Hawks with Lake so let's hope we can get a similar reward.
Testing times ahead for the Club.:)
 
Nov 12, 2002
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There's a limited number of players on the list. Maybe you think West should've been used more often. Clearly the MC didn't agree and didn't rate him. Keeping a guy whose only role is as a 4th string ruckman with little to no improvement left would've been a massive waste of a list spot. Pretending that we left ourselves with only 2 options in the ruck is just completely dishonest.

No it isn't, it's opinion. Others, and you may be one of them, may think Vardy and Blicavs are capable top level ruckmen. I don't.
 

Farmer2Goggin

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No it isn't, it's opinion. Others, and you may be one of them, may think Vardy and Blicavs are capable top level ruckmen. I don't.

I think we are far too locked into versatility , there are times when you fill a need with a specialist.
Our Ruck is a perfect example , nothing wrong with picking up a durable , week in week out #1 Ruck
I was really hoping for Giles who wouldn't have cost us more than a 3rd Round Pick - Bombers did well there
 
When does pre season start for the boys and do they expect Menzel to join the main group from the start? Be great to see him do a full pre season.
Some like Mr Menzel have already started
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Some like Mr Menzel have already started

It's good to see that Menz is back home and training on his junior footy club's ground. He's super-keen by the looks of things, so hopefully for him firstly and then the club, he gets through the pre - season, en route to a VFL round 1 return. From there, we'll all just keep our fingers crossed. It would be such a feel good story if he managed to make it back to the AFL and have a substantial career.
 
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I see. And the club knew that was going to happen last November did they?

and the club knew what was going to happen to our ruck stocks last November, did they?

On this subject at least you're as consistent as curdled milk.
 
Nov 12, 2002
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and the club knew what was going to happen to our ruck stocks last November, did they?

On this subject at least you're as consistent as curdled milk.

Really? Let's examine.

Ruckmen on the list last November - McIntosh (missed the whole season), Simpson (played 6 games and injured again), Vardy (IF he's a ruckman), West and Blicavs. Only the last two are remotely durable. So, we get rid of West. That leaves ONE durable 'ruckman' in Blicavs.

Fast forward to 2014.....McIntosh plays 19 games but he is hobbled completely by the finals. Simpson breaks down before the finals, and Vardy injures his kness and misses the season. Even IF Vardy had remained fit, you don't need to be clairvoyant to know the chances of McIntosh and Simpson playing a full year were pretty slim. So, why would you ditch one of the two durable guys you have?

Love this time of year. And the comedy is going to get even better next season.
 
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Eddie1994

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Really? Let's examine.

Ruckmen on the list last November - McIntosh (missed the whole season), Simpson (played 6 games and injured again), Vardy (IF he's a ruckman), West and Blicavs. Only the last two are remotely durable. So, we get rid of West. That leaves ONE durable 'ruckman' in Blicavs.

Fast forward to 2014.....McIntosh plays 19 games but his hobbled completely by the finals. Simpson breaks down before the finals, and Vardy injures his kness and misses the season. Even IF Vardy had remained fit, you don't need to be clairvoyant to know the chances of McIntosh and Simpson playing a full year were pretty slim. So, why would you ditch one of the two durable guys you have?

Love this time of year. And the comedy is going to get even better next season.

Giving up West was a terrible decision, but you can't predict the future... surely no one knew HMAC and Simpson would basically fall apart, Blicavs strikes me as a future FB, possibly pinch hitting in the ruck, we need a solid No. 1 ruck, and at the moment the closest one we have is Clark, and he was recruited to play forward, and still needs to prove he is right to go. Maybe Stanley, Blicavs, and Clark share ruck duties? Still not 100% confident in having a ruckman able to compete with Ryder, Goldstein, Sandilands possibly? We need a player along the lines of Giles (i know we missed that boat). Let's all be honest though... Mumford would suit our needs and more. BRING BACK MUMMY!
 
Nov 12, 2002
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Giving up West was a terrible decision, but you can't predict the future... surely no one knew HMAC and Simpson would basically fall apart, Blicavs strikes me as a future FB, possibly pinch hitting in the ruck, we need a solid No. 1 ruck, and at the moment the closest one we have is Clark, and he was recruited to play forward, and still needs to prove he is right to go. Maybe Stanley, Blicavs, and Clark share ruck duties? Still not 100% confident in having a ruckman able to compete with Ryder, Goldstein, Sandilands possibly? We need a player along the lines of Giles (i know we missed that boat). Let's all be honest though... Mumford would suit our needs and more. BRING BACK MUMMY!

It's more that if you are getting rid of a senior ruckman, you need another one coming in. That was the main concern. Especially after 2014, what odds would you give now that McIntosh and Simpson will each get through next year?

Agree completely about Stanley, Clark and Blicavs, but it strikes me again as a bit each-way. They haven't really got confidence in any one player to make a position his own; but they'll 'sort of' let 5 guys have a go at it. Not entirely sure that's the correct strategy, but we'll see.
 

Eddie1994

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It's more that if you are getting rid of a senior ruckman, you need another one coming in. That was the main concern. Especially after 2014, what odds would you give now that McIntosh and Simpson will each get through next year?

Agree completely about Stanley, Clark and Blicavs, but it strikes me again as a bit each-way. They haven't really got confidence in any one player to make a position his own; but they'll 'sort of' let 5 guys have a go at it. Not entirely sure that's the correct strategy, but we'll see.

I think they won't, maybe it's time for an 'Ottens' scenario with HMAC and Simpson, early on use the 'pinch-hitters' (Clark, Stanley, Walker, Blicavs), then come latter rounds of the year, heading into September play the big boys. We need to get back into the psyche of resting elder statesmen, or injury prone neccessities, (a ruckman), blooding young kids and having our best 22 in September
 
It's good to see that Menz is back home and training on his junior footy club's ground. He's super-keen by the looks of things, so hopefully for him firstly and then the club, he gets through the pre - season, en route to a VFL round 1 return. From there, we'll all just keep our fingers crossed. It would be such a feel good story if he managed to make it back to the AFL and have a substantial career.

I have fantasies of Dan Menzel kicking the winning goal in a thrillingly tight grand final against Hawthorn.
The ultimate fairy tale Grand Final story.
Unfortunately, a fantasy is all that I think it will be.
 
Really? Let's examine.

Ruckmen on the list last November - McIntosh (missed the whole season), Simpson (played 6 games and injured again), Vardy (IF he's a ruckman), West and Blicavs. Only the last two are remotely durable. So, we get rid of West. That leaves ONE durable 'ruckman' in Blicavs.

Fast forward to 2014.....McIntosh plays 19 games but he is hobbled completely by the finals. Simpson breaks down before the finals, and Vardy injures his kness and misses the season. Even IF Vardy had remained fit, you don't need to be clairvoyant to know the chances of McIntosh and Simpson playing a full year were pretty slim. So, why would you ditch one of the two durable guys you have?

Love this time of year. And the comedy is going to get even better next season.

You're an expert in hindsight, there's no doubt about that. Picking a squad based on what might happen injury wise, or what might not happen, is folly.

On your rationale, we should have recruited a FF in case Hawkins back gave way…you didn't have to be a clairvoyant to see that would happen…..

oh wait…..

Yep…the comedy flows thick and fast all right.
 
Nov 12, 2002
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You're an expert in hindsight, there's no doubt about that. Picking a squad based on what might happen injury wise, or what might not happen, is folly.

On your rationale, we should have recruited a FF in case Hawkins back gave way…you didn't have to be a clairvoyant to see that would happen…..

oh wait…..

Yep…the comedy flows thick and fast all right.

None of us said it in hindsight. Plenty voiced concern when it happened for exactly those reasons. Problem is some don't want to admit the club ever errs.
 
Oct 5, 2013
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Clearly hair is to blame...

Just on that picture shown in the article, Duncan really put on some size as you can see he's shorter than Menzel but today's he listed as being the same height and nearly the same weight of 188cm & 87kg.


Untitled_1.jpg
 

Footy Smarts

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None of us said it in hindsight. Plenty voiced concern when it happened for exactly those reasons. Problem is some don't want to admit the club ever errs.

Unfortunately for you there is a thing called a search function and it takes about 20 seconds to find out exactly what you were saying when West was traded. In contrast to your claim that you were saying he should've been kept as "good insurance", at the time you specifically said keeping him as depth was "the worst possible outcome".

Your first 2 posts about West possibly being traded (bolding is mine):

Think you could have stopped at "hasn't got a future". I doubt he'd get a game if every other ruckman was injured, might as well get something for him.

This one was in reply to the suggestion we should keep him as insurance because our other rucks are injury prone:

That's the worst possible outcome. It means that we've got a 25-year-old ruckman they don't rate enough to play, but want to keep because they don't trust the fitness of everyone else. Worrying to say the least.

If it wasn't clear enough from those 2, here's a slightly later post where you spell it out in clear detail (again bolding mine):

Agreed. They won't play him, so I can't imagine what benefit there can possibly be to keeping him.

Struggle to see how a side like Richmond couldn't use West as a backup. Perfect age and very durable.

So maybe some people were saying the same thing that you are now when West was traded. But you weren't one of them.
 
Nov 12, 2002
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Unfortunately for you there is a thing called a search function and it takes about 20 seconds to find out exactly what you were saying when West was traded. In contrast to your claim that you were saying he should've been kept as "good insurance", at the time you specifically said keeping him as depth was "the worst possible outcome".

Well done. I don't have perfect recall. I do remember being thoroughly sick of defending West late in the year, so by that point I'd given up.

You've won. Congratulations.

So maybe some people were saying the same thing that you are now when West was traded. But you weren't one of them.

There you go then. Fascinating. As I said above, I can't recall the exact details - unfortunately I I have learned now it's definitely much better to not express any view or sentiment at all. As it will come back if you deviate from it by one millimetre in future.

That said, if Menzel or Cowan get the slightest setback this year, there will be a true tidal wave of reminders sent out. There would be no shortage of posts from the last three years of people confident in their full recoveries.
 

Footy Smarts

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Well done. I don't have perfect recall.

Nobody expects you or anybody else to have perfect recall. But perhaps if you know you don't have perfect recall you shouldn't pretend that you do. Don't tell other people they're wrong for saying you're using hindsight on this issue when you absolutely are. It's very easy to sit back now and say how great it would've been to have West in the semi-final. It's also very easy to pot the club for getting rid of West when you don't have to look back and justify why it would've been the right decision at the time.

But pretending that the decision was dumb, when you agreed with it at the time, just to further your endless discrediting of the coaching staff at the club is weak. If you're so strong in your criticism then it is incumbent upon you to ensure your criticism is based on factual evidence. When you go off half-cocked without even attempting to check whether what you're saying is correct (seriously it took less than a minute to find those posts) it makes your motives clear. So no you don't have perfect recall. But when you claim such blatant falsehoods it's plain as day that you're not interested in presenting the truth in your posts, you're just interested in furthering your agenda of criticising the coaching staff at the club. Why a supposed supporter of this club would do such a thing I have no idea.
 
Nov 12, 2002
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Nobody expects you or anybody else to have perfect recall. But perhaps if you know you don't have perfect recall you shouldn't pretend that you do. Don't tell other people they're wrong for saying you're using hindsight on this issue when you absolutely are. It's very easy to sit back now and say how great it would've been to have West in the semi-final. It's also very easy to pot the club for getting rid of West when you don't have to look back and justify why it would've been the right decision at the time.

My honest reaction to that, and I stress this is not directed at you - bullshit. It sure seems like it these days.

But pretending that the decision was dumb, when you agreed with it at the time, just to further your endless discrediting of the coaching staff at the club is weak. If you're so strong in your criticism then it is incumbent upon you to ensure your criticism is based on factual evidence. When you go off half-cocked without even attempting to check whether what you're saying is correct (seriously it took less than a minute to find those posts) it makes your motives clear. So no you don't have perfect recall. But when you claim such blatant falsehoods it's plain as day that you're not interested in presenting the truth in your posts, you're just interested in furthering your agenda of criticising the coaching staff at the club. Why a supposed supporter of this club would do such a thing I have no idea.

Do you mean like when I put up our clearance numbers of our two games in 2012, when West was pitted against Sandilands, versus the Qualifying Final? That didn't seem to get a lot of responses. I didn't pluck those figures out of thin air either.

You don't know and wouldn't have a clue what my agenda is. Normally, you're not one of band of morons who presumes to know what other supporters are thinking. Hopefully that doesn't change.
 

Footy Smarts

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Do you mean like when I put up our clearance numbers of our two games in 2012, when West was pitted against Sandilands, versus the Qualifying Final? That didn't seem to get a lot of responses. I didn't pluck those figures out of thin air either.

And if you stuck to such facts your opinion could be considered educated or informed. Unfortunately you've resorted to mocking other posters' opinions. Worse than that, they were opinions that you actually held at the time but when that was suggested you initially refused to acknowledge that fact.

Stick to facts and the discussion can be civil and reasonable. There is an argument that West was hard done by in his time at the club. There is even an argument (although I believe a weak one) that he should've been kept at the end of last year. But if you start spouting complete bullshit (which takes about 30 seconds to be revealed as such) in order to mock others then you can't really complain that your opinion isn't taken seriously.
 
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