ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
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- #26
Only 3 cricketers in the history of the game have done the 4000/300 double and you're saying he's not a great in terms of ability?
Daniel Vettori retires from International Cricket
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- May 10, 2004
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Horse s**t. He would have been a regular in the Aussie line up for a looooooooooong time now, and has been clearly the most consistently dangerous offie in the world over the last 15 years.
Superb cricketer. Honestly had just about written him off a couple of years ago - not so much in terms of ability, but it was looking like he was over international cricket and going to set himself up playing in the T20 leagues. To come back, play a test and bowl superbly throughout the World Cup is a testament to him. Not to mention how handy his batting has been.
Deserves a lot of respect and would say he has a future in coaching or leadership.
Deserves a lot of respect and would say he has a future in coaching or leadership.
If you watch early footage he really gave the ball a rip, but had to change his action after hurting his back.
This was a real shame as he was a great attacking left armer.
He was still a fine bowler afterwards, but not quite the same. His batting improved however
we'll miss him big time especially in ODI's !
This was a real shame as he was a great attacking left armer.
He was still a fine bowler afterwards, but not quite the same. His batting improved however
we'll miss him big time especially in ODI's !
- May 10, 2004
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A couple of other things. No 1, he bowled in some absolute poop attacks over the years. Have a look at his record when he bowled in tandem with Shane Bond for example of how much more dangerous he was with another quality bowler. The guy had to carry their attack a number of times over the years.
Secondly, he was a master of the nuances of off spin bowling. He wasn't a great turner of the ball, but that meant he wasn't relying on conditions to be in his favor to be effective. Arguably the best exponent of flight, drift and bounce I've ever seen for an offie. A thinking mans bowler all the way. He was also dangerous in all three forms of the game, something that not many bowlers of any kind can lay claim to.
Secondly, he was a master of the nuances of off spin bowling. He wasn't a great turner of the ball, but that meant he wasn't relying on conditions to be in his favor to be effective. Arguably the best exponent of flight, drift and bounce I've ever seen for an offie. A thinking mans bowler all the way. He was also dangerous in all three forms of the game, something that not many bowlers of any kind can lay claim to.
Would have loved him bowling in tandem with Warne on the subcontinent, geez we would have been nigh on unbeatable with him.
Would've absolutely walked into the Australian side at any point in his career. That's how well I rate him.
I read somewhere that he's the best performed No8 batsmen across all teams in tests too
A very good player who played for a long period of time. His bowling stats aren't much better than Danish Kaneria (for instance) and I wouldn't call Kaneria a great.
He would have been. And most Australian players aren't greats of the game.
He's possibly the second best finger spinners to have played international cricket during the time I have watched cricket.
- May 10, 2004
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The numbers have to be taken in context. How many spin friendly wickets did Vettori get to play on compared to Kaneria. I feel pretty safe in saying that the quality of Pakistan's attack far exceeds that of New Zealand's for most of either of their careers. I'm sure Dan would have enjoyed more flattering stats bowling alongside blokes like Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Mohammad Asif and Saqlain Mustaq for example. Aside from Shane Bond, the Kiwi's haven't had another bowler apart from Vettori himself that is in the class of the fellows mentioned.
Well it's why I call him a New Zealand great but not a cricket great.
Though my list of greats is pretty small.
- May 10, 2004
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I'd say he's a great of the game, but not a legend. He's a Kiwi legend tho.
The other point I haven't made about him is one that applies to many great NZ players. The very best have been thrown to the wolves early due to the lack of depth, and their overall records have suffered. Take guys like John Wright, Martin Crowe, Stephen Fleming, and even now, Kane Williamson. Take out the first 3 or 4 years of their careers while they found their feet in the game and their records look far better.
John Wright is a prime example. As an opener, he averaged a tick under 50 for the last 11 years of his career, yet has a career average of 39 because he was forced to sink or swim at a very young age, rather than having a grounding in a strong domestic comp like the SS.
It's something I have often wondered about while watching Vettori, how he would have gone had he been born on the other side of the ditch.
He would've gone just nicely thanks very much. And he didn't chuck.
Have a look through Australia's 5th bowler/6th Batsman options in the last 18 years during Dan's career. The bloke would've been a walk-up start.
- May 10, 2004
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Contemplate an attack with McGrath, Warne, Gillespie, Vettori, and a third paceman/allrounder of your choice, and Dan batting at 8. Pretty handy line up that.
ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
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- #40
You could've batted Gilly at 6 and Vettori at 7.
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Martyn
Waugh/Lehmann
Gilchrist
Vettori
Warne
Gillespie
Lee
McGrath
Leave out Lee and play both Waugh and Lehmann, that would have beaten India over there no issues.
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There is no doubt his overall average suffers from a lack of support as NZ have been very up and down through his career. Having your home base in NZ doesn't help as the wickets aren't really conducive for spin bowling. Funnily enough his performances in the early days where about on par with the rest of his career so that didn't really hurt him. At his 21st birthday he had about 90 wickets at 35.
A very good bowler. An absolute warrior who got the most out of himself. And a good bloke too.
NZ cricket fans would have the same admiration for him that Queensland shield fans would have for James Hopes. Obviously playing at different levels, but very much the heart and soul of a team for a long long time.
A very good bowler. An absolute warrior who got the most out of himself. And a good bloke too.
NZ cricket fans would have the same admiration for him that Queensland shield fans would have for James Hopes. Obviously playing at different levels, but very much the heart and soul of a team for a long long time.
ManWithNoName
TheBrownDog
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- #43
Yeah it'd depend where you were playing if you'd want the third paceman.
2nd half of his career he was really a frontline bat for that kiwi team, his last 60 tests average of 37 with 5 tons and 16 50's and when you add in he took 200+ wickets@31 in that time that is one very handy allrounder.
Well yeah, but he's no Shane Watson...
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Warne and Macgill are easily superior. Post Warne maybe but my great grandfather could've been an Aussie spinner during that time.
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Really good player and seems like a decent bloke too. He never seemed like an overly dangerous bowler, but was exceptional at slowing batsmen down and tying up an end. Probably a better ODI bowler than a test bowler.
No he wouldn't have. He'd get picked for each tour of India and the odd SCG test, but he's not replacing Warne. His batting before Warne's retirement wouldn't have justified selection as an all rounder either. Feb 2007 onwards he would've been a lock.
No he wouldn't have. He'd get picked for each tour of India and the odd SCG test, but he's not replacing Warne. His batting before Warne's retirement wouldn't have justified selection as an all rounder either. Feb 2007 onwards he would've been a lock.
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The were leggies, and could they bat?
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Warne averaged about 8 less with the ball, and 15 less with the bat. Since he took about 4 wickets a match, maybe more, he easily would've been selected over Vettori anytime, anywhere.
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