Dank had input into Geelong!

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I love how you excluded the current Hawks - warms my heart to know we are so pure.

Also, if Geelong used the same program as Essendon did, and I suspect they used similar peptides (similar crew engaged) but not the same scale.

TB-4 was not banned then.

So it really is a moot point.


Well, Dave Culbert interestingly fingered the Hawks the other day. Don't forget, this is the bloke who was aware of issues at Essendon as far back as 2011, when they were asking around for info within the Athletics community. He stated "that the AFL had concerns around what the Hawks were doing, and the Lions prior to that" whatever that may mean. I think he's a guy who has established some credibility during this saga, so it certainly pricked my ears as a statement of interest. Of course, we know that Hawthorn were into injection science, there is an article on that matter out in the public domain. Certainly, the Hawks have somehow managed to seriously defy conventional football gravity. A large group of their best players are playing career-best football well into their 30's. This traditionally hasn't been a normal occurrence, and certainly wasn't the case with the current era Cats for example. So it would appear the Hawks may be doing something better or different to their current rivals, and those of days gone by.

On the Cats, people can certainly continue the discourse, but just for the sake of accuracy the Cats weren't "investigated and cleared by the AFL". At the time of Essendons self-reporting, Geelong (along with Gold Coast) had an investigation begun by ASADA on the issue of whether illegal doping occurred. This saw the Cats hand over full records and their hard drives to ASADA, as well as provide full access to individuals for interview. The AFL's audit of the time was to investigate systems concerning governance, and was conducted on all AFL clubs. The Deloitte audit was an additional external audit commissioned at the time by the Cats. Certainly, like everyone else, I put zero store in any AFL audits findings, but it was ASADA who investigated us for any illegal doping and they clearly haven't uncovered anything that alarmed them. These are facts. And very recent history shows us that ASADA acts without fear or favour where the AFL is concerned, the Ess34, Saad, Crowley, Thomas and Keeffe are evidence of that.

Certainly, there is also plenty of circumstantial evidence that supports the claim the Cats weren't up to mischief. Firstly, Bomber had his role stripped back after the 2006 review significantly so it's hard to envisage a situation where he would've been intimately involved in Geelong's program with Robinson and usurping Balme and Steve Hocking, as was the case at Ess via Hird. Secondly, if Dank really had a Geelong grenade to throw he would've thrown it ages ago. It would be a massive story and certainly could net Dank more than a fistful of $$$. Those bullets have been fired and extended as far as Geelong legally sourcing some Actovegin from a company Dank was a part-owner in. Further, we had Investigative journos digging for info under every rock, and given the Bomber/Weapon link certainly on the lookout for a Geelong angle. Given the voluminous amount of dirt that was uncovered on Essendon, it's hard to believe some vast treasure trove of Geelong dirt has disappeared into the ether. Furthermore, given most of the internal football industry tends to know others secrets, it's hard to believe Collingwood would've poached Geelong's football manager (Balme) and Doctor of the time (Bradshaw) if there were genuine industry scuttlebutt about the Cats.
 
Well, Dave Culbert interestingly fingered the Hawks the other day. Don't forget, this is the bloke who was aware of issues at Essendon as far back as 2011, when they were asking around for info within the Athletics community. He stated "that the AFL had concerns around what the Hawks were doing, and the Lions prior to that" whatever that may mean. I think he's a guy who has established some credibility during this saga, so it certainly pricked my ears as a statement of interest. Of course, we know that Hawthorn were into injection science, there is an article on that matter out in the public domain. Certainly, the Hawks have somehow managed to seriously defy conventional football gravity. A large group of their best players are playing career-best football well into their 30's. This traditionally hasn't been a normal occurrence, and certainly wasn't the case with the current era Cats for example. So it would appear the Hawks may be doing something better or different to their current rivals, and those of days gone by.

On the Cats, people can certainly continue the discourse, but just for the sake of accuracy the Cats weren't "investigated and cleared by the AFL". At the time of Essendons self-reporting, Geelong (along with Gold Coast) had an investigation begun by ASADA on the issue of whether illegal doping occurred. This saw the Cats hand over full records and their hard drives to ASADA, as well as provide full access to individuals for interview. The AFL's audit of the time was to investigate systems concerning governance, and was conducted on all AFL clubs. The Deloitte audit was an additional external audit commissioned at the time by the Cats. Certainly, like everyone else, I put zero store in any AFL audits findings, but it was ASADA who investigated us for any illegal doping and they clearly haven't uncovered anything that alarmed them. These are facts. And very recent history shows us that ASADA acts without fear or favour where the AFL is concerned, the Ess34, Saad, Crowley, Thomas and Keeffe are evidence of that.

Certainly, there is also plenty of circumstantial evidence that supports the claim the Cats weren't up to mischief. Firstly, Bomber had his role stripped back after the 2006 review significantly so it's hard to envisage a situation where he would've been intimately involved in Geelong's program with Robinson and usurping Balme and Steve Hocking, as was the case at Ess via Hird. Secondly, if Dank really had a Geelong grenade to throw he would've thrown it ages ago. It would be a massive story and certainly could net Dank more than a fistful of $$$. Those bullets have been fired and extended as far as Geelong legally sourcing some Actovegin from a company Dank was a part-owner in. Further, we had Investigative journos digging for info under every rock, and given the Bomber/Weapon link certainly on the lookout for a Geelong angle. Given the voluminous amount of dirt that was uncovered on Essendon, it's hard to believe some vast treasure trove of Geelong dirt has disappeared into the ether. Furthermore, given most of the internal football industry tends to know others secrets, it's hard to believe Collingwood would've poached Geelong's football manager (Balme) and Doctor of the time (Bradshaw) if there were genuine industry scuttlebutt about the Cats.

So the Hawks are guilty cause Dave Colbert says so :rolleyes:

I would suspect that every single club has gone within a millimetre of the line. In fact I would be astounded if they haven't.

And we know for a fact that Geelong undertook many procedures that are now banned, padticularly the German hamstring treatment.

And like a lot of others I would also believe that plenty have crossed the line.

Essendon is clearly another level though. You can let these guys have a full reign, and that is exactly what Essendon did.
 

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So the Hawks are guilty cause Dave Colbert says so :rolleyes:

I would suspect that every single club has gone within a millimetre of the line. In fact I would be astounded if they haven't.

Essendon is clearly another level though. You can let these guys have a full reign, and that is exactly what Essendon did.

On the first point, no, I didn't say the Hawks were guilty of anything. I was merely addressing your claim about there being no scuttlebutt about the current day Hawks.

On the second point, I completely agree. Of course, the existence of a WADA Code means the line is identifiable. Going within a millimetre of the line is no different to being a mile away from it in reality, except that getting within a millimetre of it could be the difference between a premiership or zilch. It's a fair assumption that most of the best sides (particularly those with large football budgets) strive to reach the last millimetre of that line.

On your third point, again, I completely agree.
 
I think we are fine. I think if the current WADA listing of substances was applied retrospectively a few clubs at the top end of the ladder a few years back might be nervous.
Yeah, this has been the general sentiment from people who've been willing to discuss this issue. If ASADA had anything on Geelong, we'd certainly know about it by now. There's not going to be any new evidence suddenly see the light of day.

Any players involved in doping are not going to suddenly develop a conscience, become whistleblower, rat out their mates and become 'persona non grata' at the footy club where they toiled for 10 years and won premierships. None of the Essendon 34 broke ranks even when they knew they were toast and a cushy back-dated suspension was put on the table.

ASADA was lucky enough to get handed Essendon's head on a platter, but even then, you saw the difficulty they had in gaining traction and getting justice served. This isn't exactly a climate of witchhunts and weeding out the cheats like we saw at the Tour De France. This AFL climate is one of silence, secrecy and suppression. Essendon were simply dumb enough to get caught because they went nuclear with their injecting program. They unluckily got busted. And even then, they nearly beat the rap. The AFL has also worked with them in minimising the damage to their club.

If Geelong players were using some of these latest peptides or "designer steroids", it would've been very much on the sly, coaches looking the other way, while Robinson pointed them in the right direction (e.g. Charters) and telling them discreetly what to take and how much, etc. No records, no spreadsheets, no consent forms, no buses to offsite shooting galleries… Not the cavalier Soviet/Chinese approach favoured by that brainless egomaniac, James Hird. More like the operation in Manly where players were lining up to buy gear out of the boot of someone's car and injecting at home in their own bathroom.

Who knows how far all of this goes? The age of innocence has ended… The fairytale is over. Australian sport is probably as dirty sport everywhere else around the world… Why kid ourselves otherwise? The main thing is.. and this has never ever changed.. DON'T GET CAUGHT!

We know that most of these peptides favoured by Dean Robinson and Steve Dank were recent additions to WADA's list of banned drugs. I suppose the relevant question is what year did WADA/ASADA introduce the 'catch-all' S0 classification of banned drugs? i.e the new substances unapproved for use on humans which WADA hadn't yet come across or were unaware even existed.
 
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SCharters_zpsdlthkqm0.jpg


anggonaminnut....

Shane Charter???
 
I can't wait til we smack you campaigners to the tune of 100+ points in round 4 and then again in round 24.
 
So the Hawks are guilty cause Dave Colbert says so :rolleyes:

I would suspect that every single club has gone within a millimetre of the line. In fact I would be astounded if they haven't.

And we know for a fact that Geelong undertook many procedures that are now banned, padticularly the German hamstring treatment.

And like a lot of others I would also believe that plenty have crossed the line.

Essendon is clearly another level though. You can let these guys have a full reign, and that is exactly what Essendon did.

"Essendon's then sports scientist Stephen Dank allegedly wrote in a text to Hird last April that West Coast, Collingwood and Hawthorn were "biologically advanced''.

You're spot on :thumbsu:
 
Someone should give Cam Mooney on SEN a buzz and ask him if he recorded Dank's tribulus on his consent forms back in the day
 
1.dank named the hawks as a club that were advanced in the area
2. dave the man colbert names them
3. trent croad is a pusher

the evidence is building and their will be self reporting or injunction loopholes on this one

there were 2 clubs that abused the self reporting loophole, and by some miracle they were named by dank as 2 of the clubs he suspected of leading the peptype race
 

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1.dank named the hawks as a club that were advanced in the area
2. dave the man colbert names them
3. trent croad is a pusher

the evidence is building and their will be self reporting or injunction loopholes on this one

there were 2 clubs that abused the self reporting loophole, and by some miracle they were named by dank as 2 of the clubs he suspected of leading the peptype race

The Hawks players have been warned off Croad - fact
 
but he was there when a flag was won, and was with mates after he retired
facts

croad is in this mess deeper than some may think

Croad had a big role at Epigenx - where Dank was doing bloodwork on the Bombers players.

Then left the clinic suddenly, with no explanation.

Links to bikies and selling banned substances are well known.
 
Quiet? I seem to recall our links to Robinson and by extension Dank getting more than a fair run during this saga.

I would think given the amount of sniffing around that's been done that at least a hint of wrongdoing would have been unearthed, rather than assuming guilt by association.
AFLs carpet has this huge pile in the middle. This (if there was anything to it) would not want to be exposed at any level. I am surprised more hasn't been made of the connection by the media. But, they know where their bread is buttered.
 
Yeah, this has been the general sentiment from people who've been willing to discuss this issue. If ASADA had anything on Geelong, we'd certainly know about it by now. There's not going to be any new evidence suddenly see the light of day.

Any players involved in doping are not going to suddenly develop a conscience, become whistleblower, rat out their mates and become 'persona non grata' at the footy club where they toiled for 10 years and won premierships. None of the Essendon 34 broke ranks even when they knew they were toast and a cushy back-dated suspension was put on the table.

ASADA was lucky enough to get handed Essendon's head on a platter, but even then, you saw the difficulty they had in gaining traction and getting justice served. This isn't exactly a climate of witchhunts and weeding out the cheats like we saw at the Tour De France. This AFL climate is one of silence, secrecy and suppression. Essendon were simply dumb enough to get caught because they went nuclear with their injecting program. They unluckily got busted. And even then, they nearly beat the rap. The AFL has also worked with them in minimising the damage to their club.

If Geelong players were using some of these latest peptides or "designer steroids", it would've been very much on the sly, coaches looking the other way, while Robinson pointed them in the right direction (e.g. Charters) and telling them discreetly what to take and how much, etc. No records, no spreadsheets, no consent forms, no buses to offsite shooting galleries… Not the cavalier Soviet/Chinese approach favoured by that brainless egomaniac, James Hird. More like the operation in Manly where players were lining up to buy gear out of the boot of someone's car and injecting at home in their own bathroom.

Who knows how far all of this goes? The age of innocence has ended… The fairytale is over. Australian sport is probably as dirty sport everywhere else around the world… Why kid ourselves otherwise? The main thing is.. and this has never ever changed.. DON'T GET CAUGHT!

We know that most of these peptides favoured by Dean Robinson and Steve Dank were recent additions to WADA's list of banned drugs. I suppose the relevant question is what year did WADA/ASADA introduce the 'catch-all' S0 classification of banned drugs? i.e the new substances unapproved for use on humans which WADA hadn't yet come across or were unaware even existed.
IF Robinson and Dank had a program at Geelong, what would make anyone would think there'd be documentation of it found in forensic searches? Essendon didn't have any (or at least, much).
 
AFLs carpet has this huge pile in the middle. This (if there was anything to it) would not want to be exposed at any level. I am surprised more hasn't been made of the connection by the media. But, they know where their bread is buttered.

No doubt, but I still think something more than what has already been put out there would have surfaced along the way.
 
Hawks trolling Cats trolling Hawks trolling Cats....

Well I never....




Dank never worked at Geelong, guys.

Different kettle of fish to Essendon.

Stop getting sucked in.
 

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