Analysis David King: Why Collingwood can't beat Hawthorn

[Cousin of Daicos]

Story here

COLLINGWOOD simply cannot beat Hawthorn.

Nathan Buckley’s mode just cannot stifle Alastair Clarkson’s offensive weaponry.

Hawthorn has won its past seven clashes by an average of seven goals — but more frightening is its average 127-point offensive scoring brutality.

The Hawks have many strings to their bow.

Whenever Hawthorn obtains possession they make their opponents hurt on the scoreboard, but Collingwood have bled more than most.

Regardless of whether they’ve out-muscled Collingwood around the contest or the Hawks have dictated the speed of the game via uncontested marks, the Hawks have been in full control.

Kinda hard to argue with. This is why I just want an honourable loss. Even a small loss will show progress for us.

 

[TradeDraft]

I hope the Boys Read this and get them Motivated to stick it up David “Mr I Know Everything” King’s Ass

 

[MightyRoar]

I hope the Boys Read this and get them Motivated to stick it up David “Mr I Know Everything” King’s Ass

Haha I think we all hope that mate but we can hardly argue with the points he makes!!

 

[TradeDraft]

Haha I think we all hope that mate but we can hardly argue with the points he makes!!

That the Hawks will open our Defensive Style by Coming off there Man and we will get Flogged because of that?

 

[Seedsfan]

Lol we didn't play well against a great side when they were at the peak of their powers now they are in decline and now we are rising up. Most of those loses Buddy and Roughy had a big influence on neither are playing tonight.

 

[ThexderX]

David King said North were certain to beat Freo earlier in the year....they lost by 13 goals.

 

[Mkcaptain]

I remember Bucks commentating in last years finals when Hawthorn was playing. He well and truly understands how Hawthorn plays. But like he said then, its one thing to know how they play and another thing to be able to beat it.

I can't argue with what King was saying. Hopefully the boys can prove him wrong

 

[ThexderX]

These experts make me laugh...Richmond were a no hope mid table basket case 6 weeks ago, now their writing articles saying they can with the Premiership.

They change their minds reactively each week.

The SEN 4 week review of the ladder positions is great listening....they change to top 8 every 4 weeks with about 4 teams in and 4 teams out.

 

[Ant85]

David King is the same idiot who said that this week's Carl v WB match is John Barker's grand final, and if he loses this game he can pretty much kiss the Carlton coaching gig goodbye.

David King is also the same idiot who last week said that we should change the boundary rule so that the last person who touches it before it goes out gets penalised, and thus a free kick to the opposition.

This guy is clueless, and for some reason has been given voice on so many media platforms to pander his idiocy. I just hope he never gets a gig on the AFL rules committee, I shudder to think what he'd do.

#ignore

 

[shizzle]

It always seems like Mitchell is very influential against us, hopefully he can have a lesser impact tonight.

 

[Scodog10]

Very thorough and accurate analysis from King. The way our defense rolls off their man to cover teammates further afield does not work against Hawthorn because they move the ball so clinically.

It's pretty simple, IMO, if our players limit the frequency they roll off their opponent to contribute to the outnumber and we still manage to win the contested ball count we'll come away with the points. That is highly unlikely though because we just love to flood the contest with numbers...

 

[TradeDraft]

David King is the same idiot who said that this week's Carl v WB match is John Barker's grand final, and if he loses this game he can pretty much kiss the Carlton coaching gig goodbye.

David King is also the same idiot who last week said that we should change the boundary rule so that the last person who touches it before it goes out gets penalised, and thus a free kick to the opposition.

This guy is clueless, and for some reason has been given voice on so many media platforms to pander his idiocy. I just hope he never gets a gig on the AFL rules committee, I shudder to think what he'd do.

#ignore

Because the Media is a Boys Club

 

[DrDavoren]

David King / King of idiots

 

[Ant85]

Very thorough and accurate analysis from King. The way our defense rolls off their man to cover teammates further afield does not work against Hawthorn because they move the ball so clinically.

It's pretty simple, IMO, if our players limit the frequency they roll off their opponent to contribute to the outnumber and we still manage to win the contested ball count we'll come away with the points. That is highly unlikely though because we just love to flood the contest with numbers...

King wrote: "Therefore, Collingwood’s relentless harassment brand has less impact as the Hawks maintain their ability to hit targets when executing their skills. They simply handle the heat in traffic when the game is in full collision mode better than any other team."

He's right that the Hawks can handle the heat, but if anyone watched the Swans v Hawks game, they just crumbled under Sydney's manic pressure. Sydney forced Hawthorn to play scrappy, contested football, and knocked them off as a result because they had the skills to punish the Hawks.

We applied the same manic pressure on Freo last week. We forced Freo to play scrappy football, and almost came away with it. Freo won because their skills under pressure are more polished than ours, and the Hawks are in a similar category. Hence why Bucks said this week on AFL 360 that it's not just about the pressure, we need to be able to execute properly when we have possession.

So I disagree with King that our relentless harassment brand will have a lesser impact on Hawthorn. Quite the opposite.

We know what we need to do to win the game. We know the Hawks will still score under manic pressure, but if we can take the clean possession game away from them (which we've failed to do in previous encounters, hence their high-scoring average), we're in with a chance.

 

[Markfs]

they have clarko.... we have bucks.....sigh

 

[BoxMatrix]

I hope the Boys Read this and get them Motivated to stick it up David “Mr I Know Everything” King’s Ass

You do realize that David King is one of he few media analysts who actually respects us? He's just making some very good points to why we will lose as a good analyst does.

 

[Maggie5]

"This defence is where the deepest Pies defender constantly leaves his man to cover other targets further up the field allowing for the Hawks to leapfrog, almost uncontested, into the forward line in a Chinese checkers fashion." David King.

This is only one aspect of our game plan. The other is similar to what the Tigers have been doing. When the ball is in our forward line, not all of our defenders have followed their opponent and the ball. They form a wall at the edge of the centre square making it difficult to get past. For example if the opposition does clear out of our forward line they get to the centre and don't have much to kick to which forces them either to kick back or sideways. One reason why Richmond have been winning and now we too have been successful.

 

[TradeDraft]

You do realize that David King is one of he few media analysts who actually respects us? He's just making some very good points to why we will lose as a good analyst does.

I agree he is but still likes to spot the Obvious.

Didn’t he say the same thing a few times this year and was proven wrong?

Like he said about the North Game

 

[legendstatus]

Very thorough and accurate analysis from King. The way our defense rolls off their man to cover teammates further afield does not work against Hawthorn because they move the ball so clinically.

It's pretty simple, IMO, if our players limit the frequency they roll off their opponent to contribute to the outnumber and we still manage to win the contested ball count we'll come away with the points. That is highly unlikely though because we just love to flood the contest with numbers...

Even more simple is win the ball in the middle and send it deep quickly, that's the Dorks weakest area!

Probably right though but a major flog!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[brysie]

In my opinion it's no coincidence that, with Frawley and Roughead absent, our match committee has made the decision to give Darcy his debut.

As King says in his article, the Hawks' defence thrives when players like Gibson and Lake are allowed to zone off and become intercept marking targets. The inclusion of Moore provides a taller option which can be utilised closer to goal (assuming he plays forward) and allows White to push up the ground and create some separation between Cloke/Moore and himself. Hawthorn is then faced with the decision of whether to man-mark Jesse White further up the ground, or let his player sag off to help out with the job on Cloke. I wouldn't be surprised if there are clear instructions for our mids and half backs to lower their eyes and play through half forward more, as White is capable of kicking from 50+.

The other options we have up forward, to create distance between Hawthorn's defenders, is to play Cloke up the ground similarly to last week against Fremantle. White can also roam around the half forward area, thereby creating space behind him and Cloke which Elliot can lead into, as well as having Moore stationed close to goal. The added advantage of this is that a lot of our numbers can be pushed behind the ball and create more congestion in Hawthorn's forward half, thereby theoretically increasing the number of stoppages and contested footy, as well as reducing the overlap that Breust, Smith and Hill enjoy most weeks. This way when we manage to obtain possession from a stoppage and effect a clearance, we can look to hit one on one targets up the field such as Cloke and White.

As King states, Mitchell should be manned up. Crisp I think will get the job on him, as he did a reasonable job on Fyfe last week, and was capable of hurting Fyfe the other way. Hodge is the other player that I think needs to receive a hard tag, in order to deny him the luxury of time to set the play up from the back. Varcoe has been impressive in recent weeks, so I wouldn't mind seeing him go forward to play a negating role on Hodge, as Varcoe is too dangerous for Hawthorn to let him run around inside our 50

 

[TradeDraft]

In my opinion it's no coincidence that, with Frawley and Roughead absent, our match committee has made the decision to give Darcy his debut.

As King says in his article, the Hawks' defence thrives when players like Gibson and Lake are allowed to zone off and become intercept marking targets. The inclusion of Moore provides a taller option which can be utilised closer to goal (assuming he plays forward) and allows White to push up the ground and create some separation between Cloke/Moore and himself. Hawthorn is then faced with the decision of whether to man-mark Jesse White further up the ground, or let his player sag off to help out with the job on Cloke. I wouldn't be surprised if there are clear instructions for our mids and half backs to lower their eyes and play through half forward more, as White is capable of kicking from 50+.

The other options we have up forward, to create distance between Hawthorn's defenders, is to play Cloke up the ground similarly to last week against Fremantle. White can also roam around the half forward area, thereby creating space behind him and Cloke which Elliot can lead into, as well as having Moore stationed close to goal. The added advantage of this is that a lot of our numbers can be pushed behind the ball and create more congestion in Hawthorn's forward half, thereby theoretically increasing the number of stoppages and contested footy, as well as reducing the overlap that Breust, Smith and Hill enjoy most weeks. This way when we manage to obtain possession from a stoppage and effect a clearance, we can look to hit one on one targets up the field such as Cloke and White.

As King states, Mitchell should be manned up. Crisp I think will get the job on him, as he did a reasonable job on Fyfe last week, and was capable of hurting Fyfe the other way. Hodge is the other player that I think needs to receive a hard tag, in order to deny him the luxury of time to set the play up from the back. Varcoe has been impressive in recent weeks, so I wouldn't mind seeing him go forward to play a negating role on Hodge, as Varcoe is too dangerous for Hawthorn to let him run around inside our 50

Agree - Leave Moore Alone and he could Kick a Bag of 5+ Goals on Debut.

They would at least play someone on Moore and someone keep and eye on him so he does not get loss as With he Athleticism IF he given space he could give his man Nightmares.

Might Also give Cloke hopefully more 1v1 contests

 

[Scodog10]

King wrote: "Therefore, Collingwood’s relentless harassment brand has less impact as the Hawks maintain their ability to hit targets when executing their skills. They simply handle the heat in traffic when the game is in full collision mode better than any other team."

He's right that the Hawks can handle the heat, but if anyone watched the Swans v Hawks game, they just crumbled under Sydney's manic pressure. Sydney forced Hawthorn to play scrappy, contested football, and knocked them off as a result because they had the skills to punish the Hawks.

We applied the same manic pressure on Freo last week. We forced Freo to play scrappy football, and almost came away with it. Freo won because their skills under pressure are more polished than ours, and the Hawks are in a similar category. Hence why Bucks said this week on AFL 360 that it's not just about the pressure, we need to be able to execute properly when we have possession.

So I disagree with King that our relentless harassment brand will have a lesser impact on Hawthorn. Quite the opposite.

We know what we need to do to win the game. We know the Hawks will still score under manic pressure, but if we can take the clean possession game away from them (which we've failed to do in previous encounters, hence their high-scoring average), we're in with a chance.

This defence is where the deepest Pies defender constantly leaves his man to cover other targets further up the field allowing for the Hawks to leapfrog, almost uncontested, into the forward line in a Chinese checkers fashion.

Above is the area I was highlighting. That's why they score so freely against us.

The manic pressure can work to break them down, but there's two types of manic pressure.

a) Pressure the spot
b) Pressure the man

We make use of the latter which means we flood contests looking to outnumber and outtackle the opponent (leaading to the chinese checkers once they're out the other end). Fremantle pressure a spot and never over-commit numbers to a stoppage. It was highlighted perfectly at half time of last weeks match if the opposition continue to move the ball forward against us and we don't bottle it up they eventually get out. Two of Walters goals and one of Hill's were a result of them just moving it forward at all costs and outnumbering us further afield.

By shifting our focus marginally against a team such as Hawthorn we can come out on top, but continuing with what we have done previously (with different bodies) is unlikely to get the job done. If the editor and King didn't use such provocative language the article would barely have raised a mention because his analysis is statistic based and spot on, IMO.

 

[TradeDraft]

Above is the area I was highlighting. That's why they score so freely against us.

The manic pressure can work to break them down, but there's two types of manic pressure.

a) Pressure the spot
b) Pressure the man

We make use of the latter which means we flood contests looking to outnumber and outtackle the opponent (leaading to the chinese checkers once they're out the other end). Fremantle pressure a spot and never over-commit numbers to a stoppage. It was highlighted perfectly at half time of last weeks match if the opposition continue to move the ball forward against us and we don't bottle it up they eventually get out. Two of Walters goals and one of Hill's were a result of them just moving it forward at all costs and outnumbering us further afield.

By shifting our focus marginally against a team such as Hawthorn we can come out on top, but continuing with what we have done previously (with different bodies) is unlikely to get the job done. If the editor and King didn't use such provocative language the article would barely have raised a mention because his analysis is spot on, IMO.

So you think we will get Smashed tonight quite Heavily then tonight?

Then the Pies BF Board will go into meltdown?

 

[mattys123]

Hi, I'm David King, you may remember me from such classics as;

"St Kilda won't win a game this year"

and

"North Melbourne will be premiership contenders this season".

 

[TradeDraft]

Hi, I'm David King, you may remember me from such classics as;

"St Kilda won't win a game this year"

and

"North Melbourne will be premiership contenders this season".

Makes up you more Confident in the Game Tonight