David Leyonhjelm watch...

[Theseventhhamster]

It's not just the donkey vote that got this idiot elected, a fair few of the people who voted for him thought they were voting for the Liberal Party. The innumerate and the illiterate, sums up his constituency.

Why is he an idiot?

 

[raghav]

Why is he an idiot?

A good question, he's certainly not an idiot he just happens to have some ideas of his own and is prepared to put them forward. As The Speaker has previously noted, we need people like him in the Senate/Parliament to counter the blind followers from the two major conglomerates who just follow the party line and as such don't really represent their constituents.

 

[Gough]

Why is he an idiot?

Because the all taxation is a form of theft, you can't tell me what to do view of the world is childish and stupid.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Because the all taxation is a form of theft, you can't tell me what to do view of the world is childish and stupid.

That'll teach me to ask a serious question on the politics forum. Go team.

 

[Gus Poyet]

In all fairness, many people on the other side are just as beligerent about their right to own a gun simply because it's their right to own whatever gun they choose. As if they should have the right to own a cruise missile or nuclear weapon.

The debate is a lot more complex than that, don't try and argue only one side are bigoted simpletons.

To be honest I'm not doubting there's a few people who might think they should be able to own live tanks. However these are not the people who are looking to have an honest discussion about some aspects of the ridiculous laws the Libs brought in.

We can only go on who is the loudest and how they paint those who are calling for debate.

The loudest and most denigrating are those who are completely clueless and closed when it comes to guns.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Because the all taxation is a form of theft, you can't tell me what to do view of the world is childish and stupid.

Way to show you don't even listen to him. Nor get what he is trying to say.

Guess he's an absolute baby for calling for Gays too be able to be married as well.

 

[Gus Poyet]

That's the problem with the current Senate voting system and why it needs to be changed.

Having just gone through the Victorian election it made me realise actually how good the upper house voting system is here as you have 3 options two of which are very simple, one just more time consuming in:

1. Vote above the line for the party and accept their preferences
2. Complete the minimum number of seats to be filled below the line (5 in Vic, would be 6 in a Federal election), which means no preference flows.
3. Complete every box below the line, thus distrbuting preferences.

Bring this in and educate people properly on the ways you can vote (not done in Victorian election) and we will see an improvement. The current problem is caused as much by poor education as it is by an outdated system. (admittedly filling in 90 odd boxes was a pain the arse especially when filling in boxes 40-80, first ones are easy, last ones are easy, just the micro parties in the middle are a pain)

The first thing that needs to be done is remove compulsary voting.

Forcing people to vote and then actually turning them into criminals by fining them if they don't is utter bullshit.

 

[Slax]

The first thing that needs to be done is remove compulsary voting.

Forcing people to vote and then actually turning them into criminals by fining them if they don't is utter bullshit.

I'm not going to enter into a compulsory voting debate as I believe there are threads on that anyway, just you don't actually have to vote, just get marked off the electoral roll, it is not illegal to vote informally, I did it at a local government level, attended got marked off and promptly put the blank forms in the box and walked out.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

It's not about there being a "correct" opinion. It's about tolerating others decisions.

So many people who are anti-guns only arguement is that they don't like guns because they can hurt people so that's the end of the debate.

You can't have a discussion with those people.




Well the first thing that needs to be understood is that not everyone who owns guns wants to go out hunting with them.

Some people just like to be able to go to a gun range and use their guns. No different to someone who plays golf and likes to go hit some balls at the range.

If a collector wants to own certain guns simply for the enjoyment of it they cannot because of draconian laws.

Laws that over night turned law abiding people into criminals if they wouldn't hand their own personal property into the Government because all of a sudden the Government decided they couldn't own them.

Whta needs to be changed is for certain types of guns to be allowed by people under the present permit system.

Again, give us concrete examples of what isn't allowed that is impacting you.

It's my understanding under the current laws that anyone who passes the checks can have guns, they must be securely stored, and there is a ban on semi-automatic/automatics. What justification is there for need access to auto/semi-autos?

 

[Gus Poyet]

Again, give us concrete examples of what isn't allowed that is impacting you.

Category D, Category H and R/E gun laws mean some guns cannot be owned or used or be heavily restricted in what types can be owned.

I would like to own and use a pump action shotgun. Why the * shouldn't I be able to?

It's my understanding under the current laws that anyone who passes the checks can have guns, they must be securely stored, and there is a ban on semi-automatic/automatics. What justification is there for need access to auto/semi-autos?

The justification of people being not being dictated to by facist laws?

If someone wants to own and shoot automatic weapons at a gun range what is it to you?

 

[madmug]

Category D, Category H and R/E gun laws mean some guns cannot be owned or used or be heavily restricted in what types can be owned.

I would like to own and use a pump action shotgun. Why the **** shouldn't I be able to?



The justification of people being not being dictated to by facist laws?

If someone wants to own and shoot automatic weapons at a gun range what is it to you?

Do you have any problem with the laws on speeding?

I mean fancy some bloody bureaucrat telling us we cant drive our Falcon phase 1 at 160kph. I pay for the road so why cant I do what I want on it? Bloody facists

Anyway, In actual fact I too have some problems with the gun laws. I do think they have become a bit hostage to the Greens fear agenda. See the Greens & the LNP both have fear agendas.

As long as the Gun owner abides by the safety & security aspects of the law, & those laws are fair & sensible, then I have no problem in seeing people at a gun range or hunting legally. But if the guns aren't registered or secured properly, then its off to the can with them!

I'm just waiting to see what comes of our Muslin nutcase with the gun in the chocolate shop. Where did it come from?

 

[Gus Poyet]

Do you have any problem with the laws on speeding?

Yeah I do. Many of them are ******* ridiculous the speeds they set in some areas.

Without a doubt many are set to help revenue raise.

I mean fancy some bloody bureaucrat telling us we cant drive our Falcon phase 1 at 160kph. I pay for the road so why cant I do what I want on it? Bloody facists

Yeah imagine that. Imagine sensible people like the Germans proving through their systems our speed limits are built around revenue raising and fear.

Anyway, In actual fact I too have some problems with the gun laws. I do think they have become a bit hostage to the Greens fear agenda. See the Greens & the LNP both have fear agendas.

I always state its the majors who are driving the Nanny state agenda. I'm not saying one is better or worse than the other.

As long as the Gun owner abides by the safety & security aspects of the law, & those laws are fair & sensible, then I have no problem in seeing people at a gun range or hunting legally. But if the guns aren't registered or secured properly, then its off to the can with them!

I'm just waiting to see what comes of our Muslin nutcase with the gun in the chocolate shop. Where did it come from?

Well that's a fair enough approach. The people arguing for being able to own weapons in the heavily restricted classes aren't arguing for just anyone to be able to own or use them. With owning them comes great responsibility. The weird thing is that gun owners as a whole are an increidbly sensible group of people. It's not simply cowboys with guns. Most have been well versed and trained in O,H & S issues when handling and using guns and frown upon people who use them in a dangerous or haphazard way.

 

[madmug]

Yeah I do. Many of them are ******* ridiculous the speeds they set in some areas.

The argument is that it has reduced the death toll.

Well that's a fair enough approach. The people arguing for being able to own weapons in the heavily restricted classes aren't arguing for just anyone to be able to own or use them. With owning them comes great responsibility. The weird thing is that gun owners as a whole are an increidbly sensible group of people. It's not simply cowboys with guns. Most have been well versed and trained in O,H & S issues when handling and using guns and frown upon people who use them in a dangerous or haphazard way.

'As a whole'. Well that is reassuring. Unfortunately I've seen some of your sensible people out in the bush, One guy shot his own car aerial off!

Sorry, but guns are deadly so I think strong rules are needed. The cry of 'personal freedom' can KMA on this one.

 

[pokerspiv]

In all fairness, many people on the other side are just as beligerent about their right to own a gun simply because it's their right to own whatever gun they choose. As if they should have the right to own a cruise missile or nuclear weapon..

If you don't have the right to defend your own life then you don't have any rights at all.

A lot of people naively believe the police will be there to help them when it counts. Ask the people who died in the Sydney siege how that went for them.

 

[pokerspiv]

It's not just the donkey vote that got this idiot elected, a fair few of the people who voted for him thought they were voting for the Liberal Party. The innumerate and the illiterate, sums up his constituency.

Also there are the thousands of supporters of the LDP who voted for David because the LDP is the only party in Australia that believes in freedom.

 

[pokerspiv]

Why is he an idiot?

He's an idiot because he disagrees with Gough, the one true holder of all knowledge.

 

[pokerspiv]

Again, give us concrete examples of what isn't allowed that is impacting you.

Just as one example, you can't take a group of tourists or a corporate group to a firing range to try out target shooting. They must all have gun licences first.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Just as one example, you can't take a group of tourists or a corporate group to a firing range to try out target shooting. They must all have gun licences first.

I've done clay shooting without a licence.

 

[madmug]

Just as one example, you can't take a group of tourists or a corporate group to a firing range to try out target shooting. They must all have gun licences first.

If you don't have the right to defend your own life then you don't have any rights at all.

A lot of people naively believe the police will be there to help them when it counts. Ask the people who died in the Sydney siege how that went for them.

Go & look at the figures for death by firearms across the world. I'm sure the well armed Americans are happy with their rate of deaths about 11 per 100,000. Australia was about 1 per 100,000. I'm sure the families of the kids at Sandy Hook school in the USA are happy with their right to bear arms & to have nice community funeral.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

If you don't have the right to defend your own life then you don't have any rights at all.

Bullshit. You also have the right to defend yourself in Australia. Just not with semi autos/automatics. I'm fine with that.

If it's really, about the fact you love guns and want to have guns, i can respect that argument more, but the answer is still no.

A lot of people naively believe the police will be there to help them when it counts. Ask the people who died in the Sydney siege how that went for them.

Cowboys love making this claim, that if a good man with a gun was in a situation then it would all be better. Do you mind showing multiple examples from the States when this actually happened? Good luck because we know it's just all a sexual fantasy.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Go & look at the figures for death by firearms across the world. I'm sure the well armed Americans are happy with their rate of deaths about 11 per 100,000. Australia was about 1 per 100,000. I'm sure the families of the kids at Sandy Hook school in the USA are happy with their right to bear arms & to have nice community funeral.

I'm sure comparing us to Americans is a rather stupid argeument. Like a really lazy and ignorant arguement to try and make some point.

Why not compare us to Switzerland?

 

[Happy Mastenator]

I'm sure comparing us to Americans is a rather stupid argeument. Like a really lazy and ignorant arguement to try and make some point.

Why not compare us to Switzerland?

The Swiss don't carry loaded firearms into coffee shops as you were advocating for. You're advocating for the American version of want-to-be hero's whipping out their guns and shooting the bad guys.

 

[Gus Poyet]

The Swiss don't carry loaded firearms into coffee shops as you were advocating for. You're advocating for the American version of want-to-be hero's whipping out their guns and shooting the bad guys.

Australian's aren't Americans. People need to get that into their thick heads.

They also need to stop quoting bullshit American stats. We don't have ghettos full of black hoods. A group of people who contribute signifigantly to America's gun death statistics.

 

[madmug]

I'm sure comparing us to Americans is a rather stupid argeument. Like a really lazy and ignorant arguement to try and make some point.

Why not compare us to Switzerland?

Maybe because we're not Swiss either?

Sorry to use some facts to explain a point in case.

I'll let others decide what is stupid & lazy. I'm not sure about lazy, but I think I know what is 'stupid' in this debate.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Australian's aren't Americans. People need to get that into their thick heads.

They also need to stop quoting bullshit American stats. We don't have ghettos full of black hoods. A group of people who contribute signifigantly to America's gun death statistics.

Almost every mass murder with guns is done by a white male in the states. Your true colours are shining through with that comment about ghettos full of black hoods.