Debate - Do you think Damien Hardwick is ruining Jack Riewoldt's instinct and game winning ability?

[Tzatziki_Man]

Tyrone Vickery received 14 deliveries inside forward 50 during the Gold Coast game.

Jack Riewoldt received 3 deliveries inside forward 50 during the Gold Coast game.

Jack's been forced to play more team oriented, kick less goals, take less risks, go for less marks, chase harder, focus on his 1%s, tackle more, pass off to team mates.
All in all it sounds fine and dandy and no one can argue that's the right way to play football.

What I want to ask though, does this take away from Jack Riewoldt's ability to crack a game wide open and unleash hell?

If you want to dig even deeper, is Damien Hardwick's intention to make the team 22 Damien Hardwick's taking away from our ability to have a spark, a player that can crack the game open (as they call them, the game breaker).

Dustin Martin is similar, another player that plays on instinct and he's placed in the back line? I don't understand, if his kicking is worrying you, wouldn't you practice the goal kicking? He's a player who plays in the midfield and attains over 50 scoring shots a year, why play him defence?
Our players seem awfully structured to the point where if the game gathers some heat, no one seems to step out of that structured comfort zone set up by the coaches. Jack Riewoldt/Dustin Martin were our only players that did step out of that comfort zone and it's been heavily monitored.

I'm just concerned because I've noticed we're starting to draft players that can be that spark up forward, Sam Lloyd and Ben Lennon. But if the coaching staff restrict their ability to play on instinct, what difference will that make to our football club?

Not taking a hit on Dimma - just want to know what others think without slanging the coaches, that's been done in 10 other thread of this board, gotiges.

 

[Boston tiger]

I've been having similar thoughts. Good post
I started hearing alarm bells when he was said that he didn't want Jack kicking all our goals. Etc

 

[TheProwler]

Will be an unpopular view but I want his arrogance back, everyone get out of my way, kick it to me. I want to see him jump all over his man, give away frees but most importantly mark kick goal. The club needs to put it to Jack to win the Coleman. If he does that we win more games than we lose.

I watched Westhoff in the 2nd qtr last night jump mark and kick those 4 goals and thought gee I wish we had a bloke that can do that...................we do but he isn't being allowed to!

 

[Bojangles17]

Gotta admit thought has crossed my mind, last year he kicked 58, had like 2nd or third most goal assists and side won 15 games. I do think the modern game with upteen numbers back makes his favored leaping over tall building approach a heck of a lot harder ...that's the theory in pushing him up and getting more one on one,. The flaw in this theory is the replacement flopped and jack looked to be a fish out of water up the ground, back to the drawing board me thinks , a challenge to dimma that will tell us a lot,

 

[nut]

Forget the forward set up... Forget Vickery v Jackr...... we just need to move the ball faster. Freo have changed... Hawks have changed... and you just have to see the improvement in Prt to see the way the game is going. You got to move the ball quicker. We will be left behind if we think we are going to move forward by creating stoppage after stoppage hoping we are going to outscore teams by scoring from stoppages..... Need to open the game up more.

 

[WATiger86]

You do have to wonder if the coaching group are over complicating things at times.

We have a coleman medal winning full forward - let’s try and turn him into a half forward and reduce his output in front of the sticks.

We have an explosive midfielder who kicks goals and is a difficult match up in the forward 50 - let’s play him off half back.

The Jack move worries me more than the Martin one though. It's almost as though we are trying to limit Jack's output to give others (especially Ty) a decent crack up front?! If they are good enough they will demand the ball in decent positions regardless of what Jack is doing!

 

[sante]

Been saying this about our midfield all pre-season. Our best players (Cotch, Jack, Lids and to a lesser extent Martin) are too team orientated. The best teams have their stars winning them matches with the rest of the team doing their jobs.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Well he was our inside 50 target 3 times for the whole game against GC. He's a DUAL coleman medalist, its just ridiculous.
I think the original idea to make him a decoy was because he was always being double teamed and was playing with an injury at the time.
Time to make him our main focus again, let Vickery play up the ground and give Jack a 1 on 1 with plenty of space

 

[RichoLedio]

In a word, yes, yes I do

 

[kozi]

Some blunt honesty here, I agree fully with the OP. Futher I think good instinct in a player and the confidence to trust in it is much more important than just structures and lines. Seems like Dimma goes the other way.

If you want to dig even deeper, is Damien Hardwick's intention to make the team 22 Damien Hardwick's taking away from our ability to have a spark, a player that can crack the game open (as they call them, the game breaker).

Whilst Dimma was a hardworking 2 way player, this should be the main stamp he tries to put across our 22. Not turning them all into 22 complete Hardwicks because that team is not winning a premiership in most era's. Some players you gotta give a licence to go for it 100% of the time on their instinct even if it may break "structure". It's not like we have that many to give it to anyway.. Cotch obviously, Jack and Dusty as mentioned, Lids and probably King or any livewire small forward.

 

[nobulltiger]

It's pretty evident already, even in matches last year.

 

[Richo_Daffy]

we need more of this!!!

 

[TerraTiger]

Will be an unpopular view but I want his arrogance back, everyone get out of my way, kick it to me. I want to see him jump all over his man, give away frees but most importantly mark kick goal. The club needs to put it to Jack to win the Coleman. If he does that we win more games than we lose.

I watched Westhoff in the 2nd qtr last night jump mark and kick those 4 goals and thought gee I wish we had a bloke that can do that...................we do but he isn't being allowed to!

I get where all the views are coming from here in trying to put more onus back on jack, give him license to be arrogant and show arrogance, however the bit I've bolded is relevant i think. Sure we can win a good percentage of games, but ultimately, as i've seen it, good teams can easily (or have a very realistic chance of) shut Jack down. The strategy is just too predicable. We end up winning 10 and losing 10 (for example).

It's very hard to argue what happened on Saturday worked, clearly it didn't, however i think the idea to spread the goals around is sound. It just needs to be implemented better. Easier said than done i guess when we have Giffo trying to feel his way and TV inconsistent at the moment. Not to mention present issues with small forwards offensively and defensively.

Having said that, Jack as a pure decoy is silly. Dimma and the forward coaches have work to do to get the forward line more coherent. I think the pieces of the puzzle are there, it's a (small?) matter of getting them working together better. I'm not sure it is as simple as merely putting Jack back to full time FF.

 

[Spluff]

I think we all agree to some extent. Sometimes it is a good move to use him as a decoy, but not all the time.

On an unrelated note, can anybody remember him jumping more than 30cm off the ground in recent memory? I feel like he's lost his leap, which was his most dangerous characteristic. Probably attributable to all those hip injuries.

 

[living_in_syd]

They made him skinny.

Put it back on in two weeks?

 

[Tiger71]

Tyrone Vickery received 14 deliveries inside forward 50 during the Gold Coast game.

Jack Riewoldt received 3 deliveries inside forward 50 during the Gold Coast game.

Jack's been forced to play more team oriented, kick less goals, take less risks, go for less marks, chase harder, focus on his 1%s, tackle more, pass off to team mates.
All in all it sounds fine and dandy and no one can argue that's the right way to play football.

What I want to ask though, does this take away from Jack Riewoldt's ability to crack a game wide open and unleash hell?

If you want to dig even deeper, is Damien Hardwick's intention to make the team 22 Damien Hardwick's taking away from our ability to have a spark, a player that can crack the game open (as they call them, the game breaker).

Dustin Martin is similar, another player that plays on instinct and he's placed in the back line? I don't understand, if his kicking is worrying you, wouldn't you practice the goal kicking? He's a player who plays in the midfield and attains over 50 scoring shots a year, why play him defence?
Our players seem awfully structured to the point where if the game gathers some heat, no one seems to step out of that structured comfort zone set up by the coaches. Jack Riewoldt/Dustin Martin were our only players that did step out of that comfort zone and it's been heavily monitored.

I'm just concerned because I've noticed we're starting to draft players that can be that spark up forward, Sam Lloyd and Ben Lennon. But if the coaching staff restrict their ability to play on instinct, what difference will that make to our football club?

Not taking a hit on Dimma - just want to know what others think without slanging the coaches, that's been done in 10 other thread of this board, gotiges.

Great post mate!

I agree that im starting to think the same. Hardwick when he played was a dour workmen like defender. I have a sneaky suspicion he is trying to mold our more natural footballers with a bit of spark/arrogance into that mold. My worry is that by trying to do it, he will make then not enjoy there football and there performance would suffer.

 

[Turka]

Let's not forget that Jack is on some serious coin.
And he held out for it. And that's the business, fine.
Whether he plays high, low, north or south, we have no control over.
But he does. He needs to start owning games and opponents, like he did with that 10 against West Coast.
At 25 now and in his prime, and the fittest he's been, make the Jamison's and the Frawley's run til they spew up, snag three or four.
And don't worry about saying anything to the media,
We'll notice.

 

[cairo tiger]

You do have to wonder if the coaching group are over complicating things at times.

We have a coleman medal winning full forward - let’s try and turn him into a half forward and reduce his output in front of the sticks.

We have an explosive midfielder who kicks goals and is a difficult match up in the forward 50 - let’s play him off half back.

The Jack move worries me more than the Martin one though. It's almost as though we are trying to limit Jack's output to give others (especially Ty) a decent crack up front?! If they are good enough they will demand the ball in decent positions regardless of what Jack is doing!

coaching group have

1. no game plan
2. killed effective players strengths

really it is not rocked sceince, a bunch of us here in bf could do better

 

[tigs2010]

we need more of this!!!

Exactly. * sharing goals. Pretty sure we won that day just quietly.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Jack FF, Griffiths CHF, Vickery can piss off.

 

[tigs2010]

I get where all the views are coming from here in trying to put more onus back on jack, give him license to be arrogant and show arrogance, however the bit I've bolded is relevant i think. Sure we can win a good percentage of games, but ultimately, as i've seen it, good teams can easily (or have a very realistic chance of) shut Jack down. The strategy is just too predicable. We end up winning 10 and losing 10 (for example).

It's very hard to argue what happened on Saturday worked, clearly it didn't, however i think the idea to spread the goals around is sound. It just needs to be implemented better. Easier said than done i guess when we have Giffo trying to feel his way and TV inconsistent at the moment. Not to mention present issues with small forwards offensively and defensively.

Having said that, Jack as a pure decoy is silly. Dimma and the forward coaches have work to do to get the forward line more coherent. I think the pieces of the puzzle are there, it's a (small?) matter of getting them working together better. I'm not sure it is as simple as merely putting Jack back to full time FF.

Agree with all that.

I also wish the club would just STFU for once. Who gives a * whether he;s a decoy or a number one target? FFS just don't tell the other team. Leave Jack as the main man and if they double team him, either Vickery or Griffiths will be loose and then we can all close our eyes and hope Vickery doesn't drop it. As soon as the club says "Jack will be a decoy" the other team haven't bothered to double team him, but because he's the decoy we aren't kicking him the ball.

Same goes with announcing 5 weeks before Round 1 Thomas will play on Ablett. When do you ever hear who Crowley is going to play on?

As you said the tactic of sharing goals around is sound but we are doing a poor job of it. Use Jack as the main man, when he's doubled/tripled then find the loose guy standing 30m in the clear. Either Jack kicks a bag 1 on 1 or someone else chips in.

The other thing we lack is a dangerous small forward with lightning pace. We have underrated the importance of one for so long, both in our own side and the oppositions side (manning up small forwards) If Jack gets double teamed and we end up kicking it to him, he never gets outmarked but there is never anyone there and the other team can sweep it away.

Overall the forward line is putrid and TheUndertaker is right we are stifling Jack's match-winning ability.

 

[Handsuper47]

I hate skinny Jack, I want a big Richo-like Jack. I hate him being a decoy, I want to see him grab marks and smash packs while kicking big numbers!

Vickery should be the decoy.

 

[Cotcho]

Leave him 1 out in the square ffs where he outmarks most defenders....and if he doesnt...where he can use his craft to soccer or crum a goal better than ANY defenders. Its absolutely mental.
Supporters used to jump on it too, "lead jack, selfish, guy doesnt lead"

Thats because its moronic and dumb. He cant even kick the full 50 and Dimma and half the supporters want him on the arc. Its a disgrace.

Get Vickery and Griffiths out of the main mans space.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Forget the forward set up... Forget Vickery v Jackr...... we just need to move the ball faster. Freo have changed... Hawks have changed... and you just have to see the improvement in Prt to see the way the game is going. You got to move the ball quicker. We will be left behind if we think we are going to move forward by creating stoppage after stoppage hoping we are going to outscore teams by scoring from stoppages..... Need to open the game up more.

I agree with the OP and this post .
We need to move the ball quicker , however we need to be delivering more to a player(s) who are the best chance of giving a contest and winning that contest regardless of where the kick lands or they are positioned . Vickery is not that player unless it's on his head he is a liability and that includes shall his opponent win the contest , inwhich most cases leads to unpressured clearance from our forward line.
Griff one out at half forward and Jack one out in the forward line for quick ball transfere . If it's held out use Vickery or Hampson deep in the square who should be sharing the ruck on a 50/50 basis .
Quick ball movement to Vickery is simply going to see him and his opponent in more space , often with a pressured kick landing in front , left or right of him = turn over and his opponent clearing it .

 

[AJ Green]

Since we moved the ball so slow, GC were able to push us wide meaning our fowards were taking shots from tough angles,commentators pointed this out a few times. Jack needs to be the no.1 target and it would be good to see Shane Edwards as a permanant small forward.