Debt and Deficit - Coalition Budget Emergency

[Power Raid]

By raising the GST and broadening it's base, it will hurt economic growth as there will be a reduction of consumer spending. This in turn will impact small business who will have to dedicate more time on applying the GST to their goods and services, impact their margins and likely see more closures, resulting in higher unemployment, which in turn will hit consumer spending even further.

It's a no-brainer.

I'd prefer to increase the GST but not broaden the base to essentials like food.

I don't get the concept of a reduction in consumer spending as that was the scare tactic in 1999 but it didn't happen. I also don't get the "more" time bit applying GST. Can you explain this as it only takes 5 minutes to complete a BAS. The business closures etc is rubbish as this too was threatened in 1999.


The biggest advantage on GST, and the area that needs the most attention, is it is a tax on imports. Thus reducing the competitive advantage that overseas production in low income tax jurisdictions has on local production.

at the end of the day we all know a high income tax doesn't work, doesn't generate the revenue required and favours overseas/ non-residents over locals. Thus we have to broaden the tax base by taxing property and taxing consumption. At the same time we need to ensure our lowest income earners and social welfare recipients are looked after at the same time. Its a win win!

 

[Pessimistic]

It wouldn't be double dipping as stamp duty is part of the property's cost base when you calculate your capital gain.

I doubt that the vast majority of the australian population would see it that way

If it did, it would be a very good reform

 

[Rob]

I doubt that the vast majority of the australian population would see it that way

If it did, it would be a very good reform

Oh, they wouldn't be happy about it. It'd be political suicide for anyone that proposed it.

 

[Maggie5]

I don't get the concept of a reduction in consumer spending as that was the scare tactic in 1999 but it didn't happen. I also don't get the "more" time bit applying GST. Can you explain this as it only takes 5 minutes to complete a BAS.

I think that the economic circumstance in 1999 to now are very different, for example, we still had a manufacturing industry, real jobs were still available, cost of living was manageable etc. May take 5 mins to complete BAS form but takes longer to get your accounts in order.

The business closures etc is rubbish as this too was threatened in 1999.

Not sure you really understand how small business is already suffering. I help four businesses with their BAS (was 6 some years ago) and last year two closed down, decided they had enough. One clothing retailer and one gifts and jewellery. One I would consider a necessity and the other a luxury. Their suppliers really tried to help by offering them stock on consignment but if people aren't spending wasn't much point. To add another 5% on the cost of goods will see more small business closing down. All you need to do is take a walk to small shopping strips and talk to owners and if you get a chance talk to their suppliers as they get around a lot more. An increase in the GST will hurt these people and no point in decreasing their income tax if they are not making any money.

The biggest advantage on GST, and the area that needs the most attention, is it is a tax on imports. Thus reducing the competitive advantage that overseas production in low income tax jurisdictions has on local production.

This is not such a big problem as it was with the AUD close to parity with the USD. Now hardly worth it.
Shame that Australia doesn't manufacture anything worth selling overseas, unless you can sell powdered milk and meat.


Said before and I will say it again, you need to get out of your 'boardroom' and talk to the real people.

 

[GuruJane]

http://www.futurefund.gov.au/

As I recall there was also an education and health (or maybe it was hospitals fund) and the Rudd/Swan government cleaned them both out.

 

[madmug]

As I recall there was also an education and health (or maybe it was hospitals fund) and the Rudd/Swan government cleaned them both out.

Gee you know your stuff dont you. its good to see the facts & follow your logic.

 

[RUNVS]

Gee you know your stuff dont you. its good to see the facts & follow your logic.

Her logic is "Abbott is the bestest, smartest man in the world and is also brilliant at sex" and then she works backwards trying to justifying everything that happens through that lens.

 

[GuruJane]

Gee you know your stuff dont you. its good to see the facts & follow your logic.

Good to see you have no idea what you are talking about.

http://hpm.org/en/Surveys/CHERE_-_Australia/12/Health_Investment_Funds.html

Abstract

Since 1997, the Australian Government has been running budget surpluses. Initially, surpluses were used to pay off public debt, but since 2006 the government has been debt free. Since then, a number of funds in which to invest future surpluses have been established. The aim of these funds is help meet future government liabilities. In the last year, one such fund has been established in the field of health care. This report details the purpose of this fund.

Purpose of health policy or idea

The previous Government promoted the idea of establishing funds as a vehicle to invest future budget surpluses. In August 2007 it announced the first of such funds in the field of health care. The aim of the Health and Medical Investment Fund is to generate ongoing returns each year that can be used to fund new health care facilities and equipment. The Fund was not intended to replace ordinary expenditure on health services by government.

This didn't last long .....

Following a change in government in November 2007, the Health and Medical Investment fund has been renamed the Health and Hospital Fund.
In its first budget, the new government announced that it would invest AU$10billion into the fund and that future contributions would be made if appropriate.

It also announced that expenditure from the Fund will be subject to consideration through the Budget process each year. This appears to be a change from the previous Government which had indicated that decisions on annual spending from the Fund will be made on advice from a panel of expert advisers led by the Commonwealth Chief Medical Officer following a competitive application process.

ie putting the spending in the hands of the Labor Treasurers and away from the independent CMO.

Also, whilst the previous Government announced that the capital in the fund will be protected to ensure that ongoing investment returns will be available, the new Government has not made such an undertaking.

And ensuring Swan could rundown the capital if he chose.

You never want to get between a coalition surplus and a Labor Governments grabbing hands. Just like Cologne.

 

[Gough]

You remember the global economy shitting itself, and Swan being lauded for his handling of it? But let's not let that get in the way of your tales. This government can barely deal with a drop in commodity prices, god knows what this place would have looked like had Hockey, or Morrison been calling the shots back then.

 

[Lebbo73]

You remember the global economy shitting itself, and Swan being lauded for his handling of it? But let's not let that get in the way of your tales. This government can barely deal with a drop in commodity prices, god knows what this place would have looked like had Hockey, or Morrison been calling the shots back then.

The evidence to date suggests that the Coalition hasn't got the kahunas yo bring the budget back to balance.
Also Gough, I wouldn't be too quick to laud Swan on the back of plaudits from European so called wizards who have made a mess of their countries. Or bankers who caused the GFC.

 

[Power Raid]

I think that the economic circumstance in 1999 to now are very different, for example, we still had a manufacturing industry, real jobs were still available, cost of living was manageable etc. May take 5 mins to complete BAS form but takes longer to get your accounts in order.


Not sure you really understand how small business is already suffering. I help four businesses with their BAS (was 6 some years ago) and last year two closed down, decided they had enough. One clothing retailer and one gifts and jewellery. One I would consider a necessity and the other a luxury. Their suppliers really tried to help by offering them stock on consignment but if people aren't spending wasn't much point. To add another 5% on the cost of goods will see more small business closing down. All you need to do is take a walk to small shopping strips and talk to owners and if you get a chance talk to their suppliers as they get around a lot more. An increase in the GST will hurt these people and no point in decreasing their income tax if they are not making any money.


This is not such a big problem as it was with the AUD close to parity with the USD. Now hardly worth it.
Shame that Australia doesn't manufacture anything worth selling overseas, unless you can sell powdered milk and meat.


Said before and I will say it again, you need to get out of your 'boardroom' and talk to the real people.

retail will always struggle if local goods are subject to GST and imports under thresholds don't. The simple solution is banks should be forced to withhold GST on all overseas transactions (including travel) and people claim their GST back via a BAS lodgement if they feel the item is GST exempt. Simple and puts local retailers on the same footing as online.

 

[Maggie5]

retail will always struggle if local goods are subject to GST and imports under thresholds don't. The simple solution is banks should be forced to withhold GST on all overseas transactions (including travel) and people claim their GST back via a BAS lodgement if they feel the item is GST exempt. Simple and puts local retailers on the same footing as online.

You just don't get it do you!

 

[Power Raid]

You just don't get it do you!

that local retail is disadvantaged by having a GST threshold on imports

the fact that we have high energy cost due to poor asset allocation driven by poor policy and taxes

having high rents due to poor or no proper property taxes

having poor IR policies and taxes on hiring people



I think I get it.........do you?

 

[Maggie5]

that local retail is disadvantaged by having a GST threshold on imports

the fact that we have high energy cost due to poor asset allocation driven by poor policy and taxes

having high rents due to poor or no proper property taxes

having poor IR policies and taxes on hiring people



I think I get it.........do you?

Neither of the business that closed were/are affected by imports. Neither is the local butcher, green grocer, delicatessen, milk bar, consultant in education. These are the people I am talking about!

Nor are they impacted by your favourite hobby horse in unions. Most are family businesses and no matter if penalty rates or taxes were reduced they wouldn't be employing people.

Get your nose out of the trough and smell the economic climate, the consumer confidence, you might eventually see how little you know.

All were making a fair living in the past, now it is difficult. An increase in GST will only make it worse.
Now do you get it?
You have no idea how the middle class is slowly disappearing.

 

[Elroo]

How much is it then?

And how do you decide which accounts to put the money into (given they can't fund them all) and how much needs to go into them given most are defined benefit?

How much is it then?

In 2006 when the government choose to set up the FF the total Commonwealth unfunded superannuation was $103 billion, by 2007 the unfunded superannuation was approximately $105 billion and the FF had approximately $60 billion.

And how do you decide which accounts to put the money into (given they can't fund them all)

Which accounts? The 3 separate employee superannuation funds which the Commonwealth has refused to fund.

and how much needs to go into them given most are defined benefit?

Previously answered; most employee superannuation benefits are "defined"at the time of an employees exit from the Commonwealth workforce, and increase by the CPI until they reach their preservation age. If the Commonwealth had funded the superannuation schemes employees would have been able to have their "defined"employer benefits fully funded upon exit from the Commonwealth and then earn market rates on their funds until they reached their preservation age.

 

[pazza]

For those who haven't heard about the Tax Expenditure Statement:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...uper-costing-more-than-gst-exemptions/7124994

 

[Maggie5]

Just heard interviews with Cash and O'Conner, they would be the amongst the worst performers for their respective parties.

Would some please tell Cash that it is pronounced Prime Minister and not Prime Minista, her voice and speech so annoys me.

 

[madmug]

You remember the global economy shitting itself, and Swan being lauded for his handling of it? But let's not let that get in the way of your tales. This government can barely deal with a drop in commodity prices, god knows what this place would have looked like had Hockey, or Morrison been calling the shots back then.

GJ is not interested in inconvenient facts like the GEC.

 

[Power Raid]

Neither of the business that closed were/are affected by imports. Neither is the local butcher, green grocer, delicatessen, milk bar, consultant in education. These are the people I am talking about!

Nor are they impacted by your favourite hobby horse in unions. Most are family businesses and no matter if penalty rates or taxes were reduced they wouldn't be employing people.

Get your nose out of the trough and smell the economic climate, the consumer confidence, you might eventually see how little you know.

All were making a fair living in the past, now it is difficult. An increase in GST will only make it worse.
Now do you get it?
You have no idea how the middle class is slowly disappearing.

I thought you said one was a jeweller?

 

[Maggie5]

I thought you said one was a jeweller?

I did, just added others that I have been a customer of or know for over 25 years.
I make it a purpose to support small business, never buy fresh fruit and vegies or meat at supermarket chains.
Trying to catch me out? Better you concentrate on how they will be affected (that is if you possibly can).

 

[Lebbo73]

I did, just added others that I have been a customer of or know for over 25 years.
I make it a purpose to support small business, never buy fresh fruit and vegies or meat at supermarket chains.
Trying to catch me out? Better you concentrate on how they will be affected (that is if you possibly can).

I try to do this but laziness kicks in a lot. It is hard to drive to a small business when Woolies is 700m away!

 

[Maggie5]

I try to do this but laziness kicks in a lot. It is hard to drive to a small business when Woolies is 700m away!

I have both big ones within 10 min car drive and close to my library which I go to weekly but IGA 10min walk even closer.
If I really need anything prefer to support IGA even if a little bit more expensive and they have less specials and choice.

 

[Lebbo73]

I have both big ones within 10 min car drive and close to my library which I go to weekly but IGA 10min walk even closer.
If I really need anything prefer to support IGA even if a little bit more expensive and they have less specials and choice.

I have been driving 7mins to Drake's IGA who have a lot of specials. Also, buying meat from a local butcher who are way cheaper than Woolies. They had real good quality Rib on the bone for $25/kg that I had for my birthday a week and a half ago.
Any place that opens less checkouts and push people on to self serve checkouts pisses me off. Plus, Woolies and Coles fruit and veges goes off quick!

 

[Maggie5]

I have been driving 7mins to Drake's IGA who have a lot of specials. Also, buying meat from a local butcher who are way cheaper than Woolies. They had real good quality Rib on the bone for $25/kg that I had for my birthday a week and a half ago.
Any place that opens less checkouts and push people on to self serve checkouts pisses me off. Plus, Woolies and Coles fruit and veges goes off quick!

Happy Birthday!
This discussion is so much better than your one-liners.

 

[Xsess]

We now have two sides of government bipartisan in their support of doing sweet FA to reign in spending, all the while revenues collapse off the back of falling commodity prices. Labor cant and wont prosecute the case for financial repair as it caused the crisis in the first place (then actively resisted attempts to repair the damage through its senate blockade). The Turnbull govt don't give a s**t just as long as it gets elected.