Defensive Talls

Discussion in 'Adelaide' started by TheLeftFist8, Apr 30, 2012.

Put it out there
  1. TheLeftFist8

    TheLeftFist8 Team Captain

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    I realise this ground has been covered to varying degrees across a few threads but yesterdays poor performance down back, I'm really wondering where to from here?

    I think 99% of us agree that 3 slow and, this year at least, offensively limited talls is an unbalanced unit.

    So who would you go with as first choice from here?

    The options:

    Rutten- experienced and clearly should be the key but out of form, slowing, and offensively limited with skills concerning.

    Shaw- not too many negatives here once fit, a definite selection imo.

    Talia- such diverging views on this guy. Unfortunately he will only ever be a very poor mans Rutten at best as his skills are atrocious, has limited attacking flair at this early stage, his pace is treacle like, and his body contests against Westhoff were laughable. His strength will improve but his pace and skills will forever be substandard.

    L Thompson- Skills not perfect but way better than Talia, good overhead, good size, pace, attacking flair. Yes he is still raw but has a few ticks in boxes.

    Johnston- Foot skills would be a real bonus back there, but is a bit of a softy. Be ok as a 3rd tall only.

    Lynch- A true footballer, good in traffic, good skills. Not quick though, i wonder if his footy intelligence would cover that ala Rutten at his best.

    Otten- Looking a poor mans Lynch atm. Same pace but none of the composure. Body work terrible, fumbling, long but erratic kicking. Form is a big component but i don't think his pure defensive work is good enough...go back to South and come back a midfielder...maybe make a play for Vince/Mackay roles.

    Jenkins- speculative down back at present but has the grunt, size and skills. Query on agility perhaps as straight line speed good enough. If only we had a reserves side where we could experiment with these guys.

    McKernan- as a defender, no thanks unless we're desperate mid game. If he can keep his Showdown efforts he gives our structure fantastic flexibility:thumbs: If his form drops, in comes Jenkins.

    Henderson, Reilly, Smith, Vince all options as tallish flankers with Reilly the number one incumbent at present.

    So for now I'd go with Rutten, Shaw and Lynch. If the club is adamant Lynch is for forward duties I'd go for the less polished but faster L Thompson.

    Otten to the wing at Noarlunga, with Talia getting into the gym.

    The big question is are people rating Talia on his draft position or his actual ability?


    So for now:

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  2. pext

    pext Team Captain

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    For mine, we are simply adjusting to a new defensive structure and are witnessing the unavoidable teething problems. Sandos game plan pulls more mids into the contested area and relies on defenders to win one on one contests. We are no longer a team who will sit men behind the ball.

    I think that Talia and Truck have been pretty good this year adjusting to the new defense model and have not lost too many contests. Otten is the glaring problem. In 2009, he won crucial one on ones in finals but this year he just seems horribly out of form. I expect Shaw to come back in when fit.

    In terms of exiting defensive 50, there seems to be a concerted effort to put the ball in the hands of good users like Radar on the way out. Reckon Truck and Talias limited offensive work is a combination of these two things.

    I'm not concerned about truck or talia. They are doing the job well IMO. Shaw or Otten needs to stand up in the third tall role ASAP though as we can't afford to leak easy goals against good sides like we did yesterday.
  3. SydCrow

    SydCrow Team Captain

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    we had a loose man for most of the game, but you wouldn't have known it. Chaplin snaffled everything that came near him. Talia and Otten looked lost every time the ball came in. Scott Stephens they ain't.

    I don't mind Talia if he can stick to his man and handball it to someone who can kick every time he gets it. But it looks like the best we can hope for is a poor man's Presti at the moment. :eek:

    Otten probably a bit thrown by his late call up. You would think Shaw is back when fit. Not sure what Otten's best position is TBH. Seems to lack speed, physicality and disposal skills. Looks like Superman, plays like Lois.
  4. knobby

    knobby Team Captain

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    Talia's first bad game for the year ! Sheesh we want to hang him.
    He still did some good stuff, 1%ers which is a good thing, i.e a player realising his having a bad one but still prepared to do hard stuff. Got a spoil in or a hand or body in the way etc.

    Talia's best work is in pack situations or 4 on 4 kind of work, he is a very good spoiler. The Hoff had him covered in strength :)o) and speed. We need Jenny to bulk up in the gym ! His kicking has improved considerably too btw.
  5. Wood_Duck

    Wood_Duck All Australian

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    Agree with a lot of the OP. Bit harsh on Talia though.

    Cant believe how important Shaw has become to our structure after only one game.
  6. TheLeftFist8

    TheLeftFist8 Team Captain

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    I'm probably seeing the glass half empty with Talia but I'm not just hanging him on one terrible match. His kicking has slightly improved but it still isn't good enough...a real liability. For a first round draft pick, all he has is effort, not much more.

    The gym is vital, not so much his chest/shoulders but his core seems terribly weak. He is young though.
  7. Freddy Bassett

    Freddy Bassett Club Legend

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    I think Talia will be a 10 year player for us. He simply isnt suited to quicker players.
  8. TheLeftFist8

    TheLeftFist8 Team Captain

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    At the moment he isn't suited to quicker players or players with Westhoff strength or greater (95% of the leagues tall forwards).

    He cannot improve speed or skills heaps, but strength he could.
  9. Freddy Bassett

    Freddy Bassett Club Legend

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    One on one in marking contests he is quite good for a young player. And his skills are not as bad as being made out. Defenders are going to have days when they have goals kicked on them just like the greatest bowlers of all time get hit for a few sixes.... Talia is coming along nicely
  10. TheCrouchingCrow

    TheCrouchingCrow Debutant

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    I reckon we should draft Plowman from the Cannons if possible, we have no KPD who are offensive minded. He is already a mature bodied defender who will fall around pick 10-18. He is a great defender but offers a lot of offensive drive.

    One to watch.
  11. Peter J

    Peter J All Australian

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    Nice post Pext and I think pretty close to the mark:thumbsu:

    I really would like anyone in the know to give an account of where L Thompson is at. Last year I recall he played a game and looked very good, thought he was there to stay. But he seems a long way off the money now??????? Barely any mention of him in the pre season/NAB Cup and does not seem to be pressing, although his numbers always look ok.:confused:

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  12. Carmo

    Carmo Team Captain

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    Despite having a really high press which exposes our defenders, and allegedly slow/ poor defenders and playing an attacking (risky??) game plan we manage to be 6th lowest in points against.

    Yes I know we've played some lowly teams, but as the weeks progress, there seems to be a trend showing the competition is much closer than one might think, not by the margins, they quite often blow out, but by who beats who.
  13. CaptainDangerfield

    CaptainDangerfield Account Cancelled by User

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    Otten should never be played as a tall defender again, especially when we have other posibilities sitting on our list.

    I would have Shaw, Rutten, Talia as our 1st choice talls and if one of these guys gets injured, I would give L Thompson another crack.

    As for Talia, very couragous player. Never takes his eyes off the ball. That play where he ran back with the play, keeping his eyes on the ball the whole time, was inspiring. Dont think we give him the credit he deserves.
  14. amer

    amer All Australian

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    He'll develop too. 20 years of age, isn't playing in a world-beating side. Needs time. People need to settle down.
  15. Thommo51

    Thommo51 Patersons Crow

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    I think our main issue is that Rutten and Talia are too similar. But so what? Rutten won't be around forever and Talia can fill his role seamlessly, and is a good decision maker ball in had from what I've seen. I can only remember one errant kick on the weekend.

    Westhoff was too quick for him, sure, but there aren't many 'key forwards' as lanky and quick as he is. Most full forwards are more the slow, stocky types anyway, whose contested marking is their strength. Westhoff and Butcher did more of the reading of the play and seagulling the ball out the back, which perhaps reflects that Talia didn't read the play so well. That will come with time, he only debuted late last season for goodness sake.

    If we get more a athletic type (eg. Thompson) groomed for CHB, with Shaw as third tall taking those lanky, fast players when required, we should be okay if everyone's fit. Depth will remain an issue though, I don't think Otten belongs in defence for example.
  16. lunacy

    lunacy Team Captain

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    I really think we need to pick up a mature bodied key defender in the trade period or drafts.

    What about Mitch Brown from West Coast (195cm, 95kg). Twin brother of Nathan Brown (Collingwood). He has obviously had a bad run with injuries, but at this stage he's been overtaken by West Coast's talls. Can't get a gig down back at the moment because Schofield, Mackenzie and Glass are all in great form.

    Apparently he's playing reasonably well in the WAFL and is waiting his turn

    Could we do a Sydney and offer him a specific role/opportunity and convince him to come to Adelaide. Would be closer to home too.
  17. cmndstab

    cmndstab Moderator

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    One thing Talia has going in his favour (which he shares in common with Davis) is that he's extremely good at niggling his man without giving away the free. Knows how to put on just the right amount of pressure to make things awkward for his opponent without infringing, and still keeps his feet to make sure he remains in the contest.

    I wish he was just 10% faster :(
  18. Allefgib

    Allefgib Moderator

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    He's faster than davis... but just doesn't have the disposal and decision making of davis.

    Will be a great shutdown defneder for us if his body develops as you'd expect.
  19. Thommo51

    Thommo51 Patersons Crow

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    Could certainly be an option (as would Sam Butler as a HBF), but I'd be doubting his character after the WAFL incident a couple of weeks ago where he belted a forward and broke his jaw 100m off the ball. Never made the connection that he was Nathan Brown's twin.
  20. AFC979810

    AFC979810 Team Captain

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    As many on here said - I think Talia is definitely Rutten's replacement at Fullback.. Has the size / strength to play that fullback role....

    Our big question is CHB - obviously losing two fantastic CHB in Davis / Bock we really need to find this missing piece to our puzzle (our spine is Walker - Tippett - Danger - MISSING - Talia)....

    I really think we will need to address this as one of our two areas of concern in this seasons offseason...

    Question is who stands up to it this year? Shaw seems everyones favourite, but I just can't put too much faith into an injury prone player who has a massive 1 AFL game... Think we need to invest in L Thompson as our option for this year.
  21. Allefgib

    Allefgib Moderator

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    How many years do we reckon Truck has left?

    I'm hoping 3 more - He'll turn 32 that year by my reckoning. That might just be long enough for a flag tilt.

    Has generally been very durable, hasn't endured alot of crash and bash on the body (or has withstood it comfortably ;) ), hasn't run a ton of KM's over his career - still right up there for TOG% (suprisingly the other week, Walker and Tippett were the only ones higher than him.. Tex's fitness base really going to stand him in great stead for late match winning efforts IMO).

    Now, this isn't to say we don't need to find replacements - we do. I just reckon he'll be around when we compete (if things to go plan).