Mega Thread Delist/Trade/Draft Supermegaultrathread - It's Never Too Soon edition

[Play by Numbers]

If you say so.
Never did anything like that in the games I watched him at TAC Cup level and this year I've seen him do most things really well for his age but not often things I could classify as "freakish".

Answer my question, define x-factor, define freakish?

For such a small mid/flanker, his ability to navigate traffic in defiance of the big bodies, reading of the play and beautiful short kicking as well as his sometimes Milne-esque ability to get goal side at speed is 100% freakish, especially given his size and age.

 

[bluengold89]

You wont find better at pick 10 ! he's not that slight he's got strength and the right shape to build on,

I'm with Hucka on this, looked absolute class through the 18's, and I reckon he's got the kind of frame you can build on.

 

[Play by Numbers]

You wont find better at pick 10 ! he's not that slight he's got strength and the right shape to build on,

And this is Masto.

Ahern doesn't look much different in terms of build in person. Bigger thighs, around the same height but less developed in his upper body. With work he could build up to a Daulhaus type build though not as explosive, but again, I can't see him being much chop as a mid.

 

[Play by Numbers]

I'm with Hucka on this, looked absolute class through the 18's, and I reckon he's got the kind of frame you can build on.

He is class, but we need to be proritising ball winners, or genuine line breakers with size, not flankers.

 

[steve hucka]

And this is Masto.

Ahern doesn't look much different in terms of build in person. Bigger thighs, around the same height but less developed in his upper body. With work he could build up to a Daulhaus type build though not as explosive, but again, I can't see him being much chop as a mid.

You cut out mastens tiny legs and bottom half ?

 

[eaglespremiers]

Answer my question, define x-factor, define freakish?

For such a small mid/flanker, his ability to navigate traffic in defiance of the big bodies, reading of the play and beautiful short kicking as well as his sometimes Milne-esque ability to get goal side at speed is 100% freakish, especially given his size and age.

These are terms that I don't use but I believe most people use them to signify aspects of play that are dumbfoundingly awesome.
For instance a player that has elite acceleration and scythes his way through a pack, or the ability to take massive pack marks consistently, or an innate goal sense etc....

 

[steve hucka]

He is class, but we need to be proritising ball winners, or genuine line breakers with size, not flankers.

I don't see what the problem is he can win his own ball in tight or can play on the outside and kick goals ?

 

[eaglespremiers]

And this is Masto.

Ahern doesn't look much different in terms of build in person. Bigger thighs, around the same height but less developed in his upper body. With work he could build up to a Daulhaus type build though not as explosive, but again, I can't see him being much chop as a mid.

He is class, but we need to be proritising ball winners, or genuine line breakers with size, not flankers.

Isn't the argument that he has genuine speed and this separates him from a player like Masten?

 

[Play by Numbers]

You cut out mastens tiny legs and bottom half ?

Don't be a twit.

My point is, that pictures are deceptive. Watch the vision, he isn't much bigger than Gaff ATM. Less definition. The hope is his thighs are ok and shoulders are squarish and he could fill out, like a Dalhaus, but still a shorty at around 181. Not going to be the body or strength we need in the middle.

Isn't the argument that he has genuine speed and this separates him from a player like Masten?

He has reasonable pace, not electric. Masten also dominated jr's. Was a prolific ball winner, Ahern is anything but. Very classy, nice user, can kick the odd goal, but i doubt he will transition into an AFL mid.

 

[Play by Numbers]

I don't see what the problem is he can win his own ball in tight or can play on the outside and kick goals ?

He can win his own ball, but it isn't a strength. It's also against small bodies and frames and he doesn't win much of it.

You are extrapolating in an unrealistic way.

 

[SpaceClef]

He is class, but we need to be proritising ball winners, or genuine line breakers with size, not flankers.

We mostly just need smart ball users who can play in multiple positions. Ahern looks promising to me.

 

[Monocle]

He is class, but we need to be proritising ball winners, or genuine line breakers with size, not flankers.

Ok then PbN if Laverde is off the board at 10 then who do you suggest we draft that meets your criteria ????

 

[Play by Numbers]

These are terms that I don't use but I believe most people use them to signify aspects of play that are dumbfoundingly awesome.
For instance a player that has elite acceleration and scythes his way through a pack, or the ability to take massive pack marks consistently, or an innate goal sense etc....

You don't think Billings has an innate goal sense? Has rare ability when it comes to getting goal side, at pace and reading the ball of hands.

I also strongly disagree with your definition of x-factor. So only elite players can have it?

 

[Play by Numbers]

Ok then PbN if Laverde is off the board at 10 then who do you suggest we draft that meets your criteria ????

Already posted this.

 

[SpaceClef]

IMO wont ever be a midfielder. If he does become one he'll never be A grade

Laverde has the potential to become that tall, explosive, A Grade midfielder

Laverde will go before us IMO. We might have had a chance if we lost yesterday.

 

[Play by Numbers]

We mostly just need smart ball users who can play in multiple positions. Ahern looks promising to me.

Well he is a smart player and a good ball user. Won't be an AFL mid though, is another small and probably won't impact early. If you are happy with this at pick 10, instead of a genuine midfield prospect then ok.

 

[Monocle]

Do we have any draft gurus on this forum who'd like to weigh in?
I saw Ahern play last year but haven't seen a single game from him (or any other U18) this year.

swannies is a massive fan of Ahern . He would be a good opinion to canvas . He also spoke sighs his father at the VM v WA game and they spoke of his development and performances for Calder over the season .
Suggest you ask swannies his take on Ahern.

 

[eaglespremiers]

He has reasonable pace, not electric.

I assume that you've seen a bit of him to make that assessment? Because many over on the draft board disagree.

Knightmare :

18. Paul Ahern (VIC – Mid/Fwd)
Height: 181cm, Weight: 77kg, DOB: 01/08/1996
Recruited from: Calder Cannons
Draft range: 5-20
Best position/role: Rotational forward/midfielder.
Strengths:
Pace - Ahern has excellent pace and linebreaking ability. He really has some acceleration and picks his times to accelerate well having an excellent awareness of who is around him and whether he can take advantage of them or not. He can burst through the traffic and he’s also got the ability to run around you.
Interpretation of his numbers:
Strong numbers through the U18 championships demonstrating that he can play well against the best players in the country, also showing some promise with his contested ball winning numbers surprisingly strong. His TAC Cup numbers underwhelming and inconsistent demonstrating strong fluctuations from game to game and also demonstrating that he struggles when getting some closer attention.

Chris25 :

In terms of performances, Ahern really has been one of the best for Metro so far in the tournament - despite constantly getting overshadowed by those with bigger profiles. But, it's arguably his work which makes them look good. Because without his speed and ball use, the midfield as a whole would be quite one paced and the forwads may find themselves struggling. He's been averaging close to 18 touches for Metro, which isn't quite up to his usual standards for Calder in the TAC Cup where he consistently finishes with 20+ disposals. And impressively, he has recorded three clearances in each of the Championship games - an important point that I will cover later. And not only is he a ball winner, but over the past two years, he has been good for a goal a game too.

His value as a player is pretty obvious just from watching him play, and it's in the fact that he can do pretty much anything you need - he's fast and able to link up on the outside, he reads the ball off the packs up forward and is developing his game in the middle.

Skippos :

He's quick, he's agile, he's balanced, he's composed, he's got breakaway speed and strength and he's reasonably fit and seems to be able to push hard even when he's flagging. His pickups are clean and from the midfield he's able to impact the scoreboard. His skills are great with his ability to distribute by hand above average and his footskills great with a penetrating and accurate kick. He's able to crumb contests while forward and while he's got the tools to be an effective pocket he's not incredibly natural there yet and I think his future lies in the middle. He's also developed the ability to win his own ball too - by no means does he excel on the inside but he's not a pure outside type by any means. In general he's just a really balanced player who's going to come to a club with a good attitude and work rate and make the most of himself. If there is a knock on him it's that he can be run over a bit and bumped off the ball (something that makes his ability to still win contested ball even more valuable) and he's not a particularly fantastic tackler.

SCPaige :

His vision and awareness through traffic is top-drawer, as are his foot skills. He finds targets short or deep, and importantly can do either off a step. He has great spatial awareness, which – coupled with incredible explosive speed and agility – makes him such a dangerous player with ball in hand. Around the packs he has clean hands and an uncanny ability to slip out of tackles and take off from a stoppage. He is lethal around goal and kicks goals on the burst, and his pace and link up work are focal points of his game. He is an important avenue to goal with score involvements and assists and was Vic Metro’s highest in both statistics. Ahern averaged 7.8 contested possessions, 3.2 inside 50s and three clearances in the carnival at 72.8 per cent disposal efficiency. His gut running and flair will feature prominently in this year’s draft. Since returning to the TAC Cup, Ahern has averaged 15 disposals, 1.5 marks, four tackles and a goal a game.

Gee Dub :

Ahern is a speedy outside midfielder who does a lot of damage across half forward. He is a real goalkicking midfielder who has a sense for the goals. He usually kicks at least a goal a game for Calder, and his three goal performance for Vic Metro against Western Australia highlighted what he can do. He is fast enough to get away from congestion, as well as being a good kick and strong decision maker. He doesn’t win much of his own ball and he doesn’t tackle, but this is not because he doesn’t chase or defend: rather, it is more because of his size and the way he gets buffeted off the ball in contested situations. He is well suited to a role across half forward where he can use his pace and skills to create, but he is also capable of having stints in the midfield.

Even Callum Twomey:

Ahern could be selected in the first handful at the draft, and he has plenty of fans amongst the clubs. There's an reason for that, because he has something that sets him apart - speed. Ahern is quick, and it gets him out of trouble and allows him to set up the play. The gap between his best and worst needs to shrink, but with his class around goal and the midfield, and ability to carry the ball, he can open a game up.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

swannies is a massive fan of Ahern . He would be a good opinion to canvas . He also spoke sighs his father at the VM v WA game and they spoke of his development and performances for Calder over the season .
Suggest you ask swannies his take on Ahern.

Would much rather a genuine midfielder

 

[eaglespremiers]

Would much rather a genuine midfielder

But you've been advocating Laverde.
Even though he's a chance to transition he's more of a utility type, isn't he?

 

[Play by Numbers]

I assume that you've seen a bit of him to make that assessment? Because many over on the draft board disagree.

I just don't see it. He seems to have reasonable pace, especially off the mark, but he isn't electric like a Dangerfield or Jetta. BTW, most of those agree with my position only 2 seriously hype his speed.

I await the draft camp results with interest.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I await the draft camp results with interest.

I'm not sure the draft camp results are necessarily always helpful when judging a players actual on-field speed.
There's been some players who tested quite poorly in the speed trials and yet are quick across the oval anyway.

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

But you've been advocating Laverde.
Even though he's a chance to transition he's more of a utility type, isn't he?

I see Laverde in a similar mold to Yeo in that he will start off on a flank or wing then transition to the midfield where he has the potential to become an A grade mid. He's got the same ability to navigate through traffic, similar in that they both have great core strength and also a good mark. Laverde and Yeo in the middle would be a sight to see. Ahern I see becoming nothing better than a very good half forward who can have a stint in the midfield. While this would no doubt be handy, it's not something we desperately need

 

[Play by Numbers]

I'm not sure the draft camp results are necessarily always helpful when judging a players actual on-field speed.
There's been some players who tested quite poorly in the speed trials and yet are quick across the oval anyway.

And there have been plenty of players sold on attributes that turn out to be wrong. Darling was slow, but a great contested mark, NN was a long term project and would be monstered for years and on it goes.

Generally, one or two people will post an opinion and everybody plays follow the leader.

I was hyped about Dunstan last year and just about every "expert" talked him down. All I can say is trust your own eyes and few people get it right with any frequency, even the pros.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I see Laverde in a similar mold to Yeo in that he will start off on a flank or wing then transition to the midfield where he has the potential to become an A grade mid. Ahern I see becoming nothing better than a very good half forward who can have a stint in the midfield. While this would no doubt be handy, it's not something we desperately need

So I guess the disagreement is how much either player can transition to being a midfielder.
Likely Laverde will be gone. Who then is your preference for our first pick?