Delisted Free Agents

[Art Vandelay_]

And, of course, you could say the same thing about Harry Taylor. Or Andrew Mackie. Or Dustin Fletcher.

All of those have afl standard ability though.

 

[Artax]

Tigers locked in Hunt. Pretty good get I think.

 

[Voss the boss]

H

James Polkinghorne, someone with his foot skills would be handy for us, very decent depth player.

His foot skills are deplorable and only second to his decision making. Seriously you do not want.

 

[pulpdriver]

James Polkinghorne, someone with his foot skills would be handy for us, very decent depth player.

I'll always have a soft spot for him for the pandemonium goal but that might be the first time I've heard someone compliment his footskills. Can kick it a fair way and in his earlier years was a reliable set shot at goal but I never thought they were particularly notable. Regardless has trouble getting his hands on it and decision making not particularly great. I'd still like him to get picked up somewhere else for a second chance but would not be surprised at all if he wasn't.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

All of those have afl standard ability though.

Ok, I'll play along. In what specific ability (besides the standard/cliched '...mongrel, the physicality side of the game...' response that you have apparently dismissed) is Mitch Brown deficient?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ok, I'll play along. In what specific ability (besides the standard/cliched '...mongrel, the physicality side of the game...' response that you have apparently dismissed) is Mitch Brown deficient?

Nothing like that at all.

He's just not that good. Very confident his delisting won't come back to bite us. He was depth and that's all.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Nothing like that at all.

He's just not that good. Very confident his delisting won't come back to bite us. He was depth and that's all.

Surely that means he's deficient in one or two aspects of his game?

His delisting will absolutely bite us in the long run. Either he will find another home and find his feet as an AFL player, or his career will peter out and we will have wasted a first round pick, six years, and multiple contract extensions on '...depth and that's all.' Mitch Brown was a big mistake, whichever way people want to look at it.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Surely that means he's deficient in one or two aspects of his game?

His delisting will absolutely bite us in the long run. Either he will find another home and find his feet as an AFL player, or his career will peter out and we will have wasted a first round pick, six years, and multiple contract extensions on '...depth and that's all.' Mitch Brown was a big mistake, whichever way people want to look at it.

Ok. Yes using a first round pick did hurt us, but you know damn well what I meant. Don't act like you didn't.

He just not that good plain and simple. I only responded as you brought in Fletcher, Mackie and Taylor into the argument iirc about toughness.

All I did was point out there's a slight discrepancy at play as those players have afl ability whilst Brown does not.

I don't subscribe to the lack of physicality argument either, I just don't rate him as an afl standard footballer and in the Mitch Brown thread I've been very consistent on that.

I think it might have been PO in the podcast but it was mentioned that after 6 years they either had to start playing him or move him, clearly they've done the latter, we couldn't just continue to keep him on the list as depth. 6 years is enough.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Ok. Yes using a first round pick did hurt us, but you know damn well what I meant. Don't act like you didn't.

No, sorry I don't. In what areas specifically is he not an AFL standard player?

'Just not that good...' is a complete cop out. He might be behind others (and he has been behind some pretty fair key position players at both ends - without having the pinch-hitting ruckman string to his bow - for his entire career), but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not an AFL-standard player. It just means he hasn't been able to consistently get a game in a side that has averaged 17.3 H&A wins per season since he was drafted.

Nathan Vardy is shaping up as depth next year (his sixth on the list) incidentally.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

No, sorry I don't. In what areas specifically is he not an AFL standard player?

'Just not that good...' is a complete cop out. He might be behind others (and he has been behind some pretty fair key position players at both ends - without having the pinch-hitting ruckman string to his bow - for his entire career), but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not an AFL-standard player. It just means he hasn't been able to consistently get a game in a side that has averaged 17.3 H&A wins per season since he was drafted.

Nathan Vardy is shaping up as depth next year (his sixth on the list) incidentally.

For someone who writes a thesis in most responses I would have thought you would have been the first person to be able to follow a conversation. Evidentially not.

You say to me... It did hurt us.... Etc etc I said you know what I meant.... So I'll spell it out for you.....

..... It won't hurt us.... As he will not go on to be a great player who we let go. He's a poor mans Cheney. A career as depth follows.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

For someone who writes a thesis in most responses I would have thought you would have been the first person to be able to follow a conversation. Evidentially not.

You say to me... It did hurt us.... Etc etc I said you know what I meant.... So I'll spell it out for you.....

..... It won't hurt us.... As he will not go on to be a great player who we let go. He's a poor mans Cheney. A career as depth follows.

You are completely missing the point. It has already hurt us, because we used a prized draft pick in a loaded draft on him. And then we kept him on the list for six years, extending his contract at least twice and delisting a number of players that could have been valuable to our side, due (indirectly) to his continued presence in the senior squad. Same as Cowan's presence on the list will have been very costly, if he doesn't add to his senior games tally next year and he gets chopped. And our handling of Brown may also hurt us down the track if he becomes a productive player elsewhere.

And...'a poor mans Cheney...'? Well, apart from the fact that Brown is about half a foot taller and kicked 94 more VFL goals in two less games than Cheney and they are quite evidently, completely different players, I guess you could make that comparison.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

You are completely missing the point. It has already hurt us, because we used a prized draft pick in a loaded draft on him. And then we kept him on the list for six years, extending his contract at least twice and delisting a number of players that could have been valuable to our side, due (indirectly) to his continued presence in the senior squad. Same as Cowan's presence on the list will have been very costly, if he doesn't add to his senior games tally next year and he gets chopped. And our handling of Brown may also hurt us down the track if he becomes a productive player elsewhere.

I'm not doubting you're correct there, but we're arguing separate points ergo I'm not missing the point.

You're correct that him being an abject failure at the GFC has hurt us given what pick we used on him. No argument there. I'm arguing that the decision to delist him which is completely separate from the decision to draft him, that decision won't hurt us. The DFA period has come and gone and yet no club has seen fit to give Brown his second chance while the uncapped Hamling has got that chance. Hmmmm interesting

And...'a poor mans Cheney...'? Well, apart from the fact that Brown is about half a foot taller and kicked 94 more VFL goals in two less games than Cheney and they are quite evidently, completely different players, I guess you could make that comparison.

I'm not comparing them as players per say, as one is a forward and one is a backmen.

I'm comparing them as what they are worth on an afl list. Depth. Nothing more.

Given Cheney is on an afl list and Brown is not suggests that he is a poor mans Cheney.

 

[Jeremias]

Carlton have officially signed Matthew Dick.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2014-11-05/blues-sign-matthew-dick

 

[Silvagnis]

Delisted Blue 'on the radar': Eagles

West Coast has confirmed its interest in signing delisted Carlton midfielder Kane Lucas.

Eagles coach Adam Simpson said there was interest in bringing him back to WA to continue his AFL career.

"Yeah, he's on the radar. We're working through that at the moment," Simpson said before taking the club's first-to-fourth year players through their first pre-season session on Wednesday.

"We've got to meet him and have a chat and see how he is and how he stands, but he's on the radar."

Delisted Blue 'on the radar': Eagles

They might remember Lucas' poise to set up Buckley's goal against WC this year.

Lucas' outside game, speed and gutrunning would suit WC's needs and longer home ground. Sugar was still running hard at the end of the match against WC on Subi two years ago. Had nine bounces and 20 touches. Could turn it around like Jamie Bennell and Ellis.

 

[Silvagnis]

Token ranga with Robinson gone.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Token ranga with Robinson gone.

Oh so that's why we got Blease... We haven't had a 'token' ranga since Ling retired

 

[SugarCoat]

Dick was never a chance at Sydney with their no dickhead policy.

 

[mike123]

On what basis would any club pick up Yagmoor?

Yagmoor is an elite kick and I'm a bit upset we couldn't use more. In the VFL he can shut down his opponent and give the team meaningful drive but isn't to fast or tall. He can play on taller opponents in the VFL and at times plays as a key defender but that won't translate into AFL level. We threw him into the deep end by giving him a round 1 debut against the Hawks and has struggled to recover since. He was improving in the VFL as but unfortunate not enough. I would have rather given him a chance then Ramsay as Yagmoor has more potential but we cut him.

As a player he'd probably be similar to Taylor Duryea from Haethorn.

 

[craffles]

Yagmoor is an elite kick and I'm a bit upset we couldn't use more. In the VFL he can shut down his opponent and give the team meaningful drive but isn't to fast or tall. He can play on taller opponents in the VFL and at times plays as a key defender but that won't translate into AFL level. We threw him into the deep end by giving him a round 1 debut against the Hawks and has struggled to recover since. He was improving in the VFL as but unfortunate not enough. I would have rather given him a chance then Ramsay as Yagmoor has more potential but we cut him.

As a player he'd probably be similar to Taylor Duryea from Haethorn.

Fair enough, as I said earlier never saw him play and you guys were injury ravaged this year so thought he might have just not been up to it

 

[mike123]

Fair enough, as I said earlier never saw him play and you guys were injury ravaged this year so thought he might have just not been up to it

If his up to AFL or not I'm not sure, but he has some tools to work with so if a club wants to use them its up to the club, I still doubt he'll get picked up though.

 

[craffles]

If his up to AFL or not I'm not sure, but he has some tools to work with so if a club wants to use them its up to the club, I still doubt he'll get picked up though.

Time will tell, appreciate the insight though mate

 

[Asgardian]

Has there been any whispers about Mitch Brown?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I'm not doubting you're correct there, but we're arguing separate points ergo I'm not missing the point.

You're correct that him being an abject failure at the GFC has hurt us given what pick we used on him. No argument there. I'm arguing that the decision to delist him which is completely separate from the decision to draft him, that decision won't hurt us.

How can it be separate? The same people made the decision to draft Brown, to re-sign him, to re-sign him again.

The DFA period has come and gone and yet no club has seen fit to give Brown his second chance while the uncapped Hamling has got that chance. Hmmmm interesting

I agree.

I'm not comparing them as players per say, as one is a forward and one is a backmen.

I'm comparing them as what they are worth on an afl list. Depth. Nothing more.

Given Cheney is on an afl list and Brown is not suggests that he is a poor mans Cheney.

A poor man's <something> is an inferior version, with similar attributes. For example, you could call Cam Mooney a poor man's Matthew Richardson. But to call Mitch Brown a poor man's Cheney is like calling Stuart MacGill a poor man's Matthew Hayden. Or calling Brett Emerton a poor man's Mark Schwarzer. Not only do Brown and Cheney play very different roles (even when Brown is playing in defence), the external (correct or not) perception of them is also completely different: Cheney is viewed as a battler whose greatest attribute is that he will not be outworked by anyone on the list; Brown is viewed as a player with all the talent in the world, who, for whatever reason, didn't take his chances.

 

[Taylor]

Is Brown too slow? Are his leading patterns terrible and he doesn't listen to coaching? Is he a slacker in the gym or prefers to stay up a bit later rather than resting and sleeping so he won't put on weight? Is his kicking technically flawed and he doesn't listen to coaching to fix it? Is his body positioning in marks poor? Are his hands too hard in marking? Does he not chase? Is he not fit enough to chase?

What is the reason he was persisted with for so long that wasn't able to be fixed in that time?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

How can it be separate? The same people made the decision to draft Brown, to re-sign him, to re-sign him again.

Same people yes. However completely separate decisions.

They drafted him thinking he was the best option to draft for whatever reason. 6 years down the track they don't see him as a part of our future for whatever reason.

The second decision is only affected by the first in the sense that you can't delist someone unless you draft him first. That's where it ceases to be related.

I agree.



A poor man's <something> is an inferior version, with similar attributes. For example, you could call Cam Mooney a poor man's Matthew Richardson. But to call Mitch Brown a poor man's Cheney is like calling Stuart MacGill a poor man's Matthew Hayden. Or calling Brett Emerton a poor man's Mark Schwarzer. Not only do Brown and Cheney play very different roles (even when Brown is playing in defence), the external (correct or not) perception of them is also completely different: Cheney is viewed as a battler whose greatest attribute is that he will not be outworked by anyone on the list; Brown is viewed as a player with all the talent in the world, who, for whatever reason, didn't take his chances.

Ok then a poor mans Jarrod Grant.