Depression is in the brain - so, what else?

[evo]

Needless to say my parentage is beyond reproach. Or is that approach?

 

[Slax]

Depression is a dark and lonely place, an inbalance does exist but identifying exactly what that inbalance is can be extremely difficult.

From my own personal experience (and I really wouldn't want Harry or anyone else to get as bad as I got, but they do) and others I have spoken to (I've been involved in a group), it is not some sort of physical ailment that you can easily identify. It will sneak up on you over a period of time, generally years, so you barely even notice it until one day you or someone close to you makes you face it. Depression is also unlike any other physical ailment in that you can't hide from it, passive treatment exists for many diseases but this doesn't work with depression as it involves facing inner demons that are tearing you apart.

From my experience I reckon that Harry needs Collingwood and football more than most realise. You need something you can hold on to, something stable that can help provide a routine to build off. Unfrotunately for many like myself you grab hold of something that whilst it may seem a stable course is in fact causing more harm than good, often an escape from the daily crap your are going through where you problems blend into the background of a false hope, for me like many others it was the bottle (I was drinking 25 pots a day!).

Drugs are only a temporary answer and not a permanent solution, you need to sort it out in your head to fully recover and until you do that you won't. It's like quiting smoking, yes patches and gum will help stop you lighting up but you can't keep using them indefinitely.

 

[blackcat]

Needless to say my parentage is beyond reproach. Or is that approach?

i do not know what approach your parents were taking. a few decades before IVF, so the genealogy may well be questioned. have you thought of having a dna test to determine(confirm) parentage?

 

[blackcat]

From my experience I reckon that Harry needs Collingwood and football more than most realise.

i dont disagree, but i have a caveat. football clubs are "what have you done for me today" MO. apart from mark mercuri, most players are thrown on the scrap heap faster than one can say "for all the hifalutin rhetoric". almost as fast as coaches.

when nathan buckley said "I get the impression everyone thinks he is a basketcase" i would bet buckley has a tensference of what buckley himself thinks. Heritier needs to stop courting the media, divorce from twitter, and stay schtum.

but if football gives him a platform to be a fake grandstander, he would be better without the pulpit. like the soapbox dudes in the city on weekends spouting religious nonsense

 

[evo]

i do not know what approach your parents were taking. a few decades before IVF, so the genealogy may well be questioned. have you thought of having a dna test to determine(confirm) parentage?

Forget my parentage, you need to get that signature of yours seen to. It's grown so big it needs its own postcode.

 

[evo]

I think we need Zizek to settle this matter. And what better time to listen to him than after he seems to be on about the third day of a five day amphetamine binge

 

[blackcat]

Forget my parentage, you need to get that signature of yours seen to. It's grown so big it needs its own postcode.

sounds like deflection

I think we need Zizek to settle this matter. And what better time to listen to him than after he seems to be on about the third day of a five day amphetamine binge

the buddhists in myanmar are now going on muslim killing sprees. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/30/burma-buddhist-attacks-lashio

 

[clogged]

I think we need Zizek to settle this matter. And what better time to listen to him than after he seems to be on about the third day of a five day amphetamine binge

During that bizarre gesticulating rant, harrycoco tweeted "Empathy is so underrated and under discussed".

And that's the most of that show I will watch for another six months.

 

[clogged]

Wait, harrycoco isn't Harry O'Brien's twitter handle is it?

 

[blackcat]

During that bizarre gesticulating rant, harrycoco tweeted "Empathy is so underrated and under discussed".

And that's the most of that show I will watch for another six months.

and is a weakness.

 

[evo]

The thing I find interesting about Heretier, is that for all his 'spiritual' studies in Buddhism and his relationship with the Lama and what have you, he clearly still hasn't really grasped the basics. The idea is to transcend your ego, not inflate it so much that the smallest slight from FIGJAM sends you into a mental tailspin.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was that harrycoco with the banal tweet. It is that sort of jingoism that most faux middle class buddhists think the philosophy/ religion is about

 

[blackcat]

h

The thing I find interesting about Heretier, is that for all his 'spiritual' studies in Buddhism and his relationship with the Lama and what have you, he clearly still hasn't really grasped the basics. The idea is to transcend your ego, not inflate it so much that the smallest slight from FIGJAM sends you into a mental tailspin.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was that harrycoco with the banal tweet. It is that sort of jingoism that most faux middle class buddhists think the philosophy/ religion is about

heretier is the perfect symbol for the twitter generation.
footballer. tick
10k twitter followers. tick
kaballah. tick. no, quash that tick. buddhism. tick.
media profile. tick.
gets down with the real people in the slums. tick
of Rio. double tick.

all behaviour and acts are contrived to an external locus, and how one is perceived. no wonder that is gonna f you up. unless you intentionally contrive such behaviour, now we are really going rabbit hole.

see ruby rose.

dj. tick
bullied at high school. tick.
twitter fans. tick tick tick boom.
lesbian version of harry o and a spitting image of my swedish flikvan

 

[Pie eyed]

The thing I find interesting about Heretier, is that for all his 'spiritual' studies in Buddhism and his relationship with the Lama and what have you, he clearly still hasn't really grasped the basics. The idea is to transcend your ego, not inflate it so much that the smallest slight from FIGJAM sends you into a mental tailspin.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was that harrycoco with the banal tweet. It is that sort of jingoism that most faux middle class buddhists think the philosophy/ religion is about

No-one would make the slightest mention if he was your run of the mill Christian.
He'd just be that bloke who told his boss to get ****ed do to outside pressure and had to come back with his tale between his legs.
Claims his beliefs are "faux" seem strange.

Hard to prove or disprove.

Just because they are odds with someone else's?

Seems to implicate most of us.

 

[blackcat]

Claims his beliefs are "faux" seem strange.

Hard to prove or disprove.

Just because they are odds with someone else's?

Seems to implicate most of us.

beliefs may or may not be incoherent and contradictory. attempt to triangulate all harry's tales of derring-hymen-do in the favella and barRio of Rio. i think he has seen one person die in a car crash, and he attempted to pry open the door. one person pull a gun on him and take his money. that was his first rio adventure. then in 2011 someone was murdered, i inferred he was knifed, and harry looked into his eyes and saw "intensity" and then a passing of life. and the murderer saw harry tending to the victim. and harry thought the murderer might have him targeted.

i dont know what to make of it all. but i think harry's bookshelf would be stocked less than SK Warne. Atleast Warne has written a book that will be on his bookshelf, if not anything he has bought or received and read.

Pie Eye, if you can figure out Heritier's tales and his beliefs from his tales, you are doing better than me sir. i am a victim of the boy who cried wolf. and yes, i appreciate in the fable, the wolf finally makes minscemeat of the boy, but the moral is dont cry before you need to eh.

I dont think Buckley believes his tales neither

 

[Yidaki]

With Harry O's comments regarding his depression I've read a few posts comparing it with cancer. The argument is that since depression has a physiological base, it's not something a person can "will" themselves out of.

I agree. But, if you're going to take this stance I think you need to take the position to its logical conclusion. The argument is essentially saying that some emotions have their basis in the brain. OK. But why would depression be a special case here? If there's a correlation between depression and certain brain states, it follows that there would probably also be a correlation between certain brain states and other emotions/impressions -will power, motivation, desire etc etc.

I don't think you can draw an imaginary line between one emotion and others. If depression is in the brain, it's likely that so is everything else. So, with this it follows that perhaps we should rethink our understanding of personal accountability.

This is obviously isn't a new idea but I thought it was relevent to what's happening at the moment.

If I may, I would like to answer your question in a different way.

The first thing I will say is that depression has varying levels to it from mild to major. From this, you can get other issues that mix with the depression such as bi polar, anxiety etc. I say these things because these factors really play a part in whether you can just will yourself out of it or not or if you have to take other steps.

Modern medicine has treated depression and other forms of psychological battles wrongly. The chemical imbalance theory that most doctors use as a reason to pop a pill has in the past 5 years been proven wrong on many accounts. There is no way to measure the levels of the important neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine and GABA. Instead, these big pharmaceutical companies are raking in huge amounts of dollars at the expense of peoples health. If you are at university, go into your scholarly article base and do some research. Why do I believe this? Well from my own personal struggles with anxiety. I saw the light eventually through my own research.

I will however, add to the above that some people are predisposed to lower levels of certain transmitters which can leave them vulnerable to episodes of depression or anxiety. However, the answer again is NOT drugs but instead correct nutrition. We are all biologically and biochemically different so you can't say that everyone requires the say amount of Omega three fatty acids to assist with depressive states. We are all different. Some of us may require more than others.

The diet of the Western world has a lot to do with the rampant rise in psychological disorders and if you couple that with the bully mentality society that we live in, then it is no wonder that psychological disorders are rising. Notice that I don't use the word illness? I hate labels and depression or anxiety are not an illness but are a disorder that primarily results from three important factors: 1) Your environment you grew up in; 2) Diet; 3) Your behaviours. I know some of you who have depression or anxiety will disagree with me that it is an illness and I don't mind that you have your opinion. However, I disagree with the illness label. It is just not true. I have been through it all so I understand the difficulties. I will add that some people with certain types of MAJOR MAJOR depression may require the assistance of psychotropic drugs but the majority of people with anxiety or depression don't. All they need is a pair of ears for listening so that they are able to become observant of their behaviours that are keeping them stuck.

How did I get through it? Well I was forced to radically change my view on life from my diet to my thinking. When I became observant, I realised that my thinking was not helpful. It's not about being positive 24/7 but realising what patterns of thinking are keeping you stuck. Thoughts always lead to feelings. Your feelings are product of your thoughts. Depression and anxiety thinking ALWAYS stresses your body leading to a high usage of key nutrients such as B vitamins and magnesium. Couple this with NO exercise and a terrible western diet and your body struggles to cope. You get stuck in a depressive/fear cycle. Your body becomes overused particularly your endocrine and nervous systems.Thus, you need to fix these first.

There is a lot more to it but the keys to overcoming depression and anxiety are: 1) Diet (BIGGEST FACTOR); 2) Exercise; 3) Listening ears (a good coach/counselor); 4)Compassion and empathy for yourself. In other words let things be as they are. Don't try to be happy because you will dig yourself a whole. Accept the moment as it is; 5) Mediation/Relaxation - Calm your body down. The world today is a mad rush of a place. Take a moment to come back to you.

So simply to answer you question, your thinking leads to feelings/emotions. A lot of people with depression or anxiety live by their emotions. It is not a healthy way to live because feelings tend to lie. Emotions are energy charges things which tend to cloud our judgement and mind.

There is more to the concept of thinking leads to feelings/emotions because if this was the case, then if we just think happy thoughts, then we will be happy. But it doesn't work that way. You can't force an emotion on. I believe it's primarily a subconscious thing. In order to be happy, we need to take a step back and witness our thinking. Become an observer and come closer to your true values in life because the reality is is that no one can do it for you.

 

[Pie eyed]

beliefs may or may not be incoherent and contradictory. attempt to triangulate all harry's tales of derring-hymen-do in the favella and barRio of Rio. i think he has seen one person die in a car crash, and he attempted to pry open the door. one person pull a gun on him and take his money. that was his first rio adventure. then in 2011 someone was murdered, i inferred he was knifed, and harry looked into his eyes and saw "intensity" and then a passing of life. and the murderer saw harry tending to the victim. and harry thought the murderer might have him targeted.

i dont know what to make of it all. but i think harry's bookshelf would be stocked less than SK Warne. Atleast Warne has written a book that will be on his bookshelf, if not anything he has bought or received and read.

Pie Eye, if you can figure out Heritier's tales and his beliefs from his tales, you are doing better than me sir. i am a victim of the boy who cried wolf. and yes, i appreciate in the fable, the wolf finally makes minscemeat of the boy, but the moral is dont cry before you need to eh.

I dont think Buckley believes his tales neither

Whether or not Harry's tales are part of his problems or partial cause is neither here nor there, it's hard to doubt that he has them (problems) and that his blow-up, well after the initial discussion about "lezi's" nickname, outside of the team meeting was extremely likely because of his problems and not some deep seated hatred of Bucks coaching methods.
The media, Barrett initially and then Robbo, made quick assumptions of what occurred, wrongly as it turned out and ran with a story the assumed was football related ie. Player clashes with coach. Robbo's wild fantasy ride of self indignation at Harry's treatment of Buck, his oh so "faux" concern for Bucks personal feelings and standing at the club and in football in general were a truly lol-worthy sideshow to the real events, leaving him looking the half pissed, footy shock jock he aspires to be. I loved that his rant on what happened and should happen, published while he was still in the dark to the real events, was actually removed from the web by his employer.
In hindsight both Barrett and Robbo have probably wished they had not been given the info without knowing the full background of the story, but it's their own assumptions which led them to pontificate in ignorance on anothers "actions".
From all reports, informed ones from those immediately around Harry, this is not the first time the Club, and/or people associated with Harry through the club have been confronted with the issues Harry openly admits he has yet to come to terms with.

If the entire issue had remained in-house as it has for several years and the widely held misinterpretation of the blow-up with not just Buckley but Walshe and Buttifant, was not plastered all over the media as evidence of their current "Bucks Friction" agenda, I think hardly a word would have been posted on the matter. Harry would not have had his "public confession" and the wider public would go on either hating, loving or being totally indifferent to him.

Anyway it's played out though, nothing changes the fact Harry has an issue, the club has, long ago, committed to helping him through it or that Harry believes and acts like his "faux" persona is very real.

 

[Footy Is The Win]

ALL pain is in the brain.

Depression is caused by an imbalance of chemicals in the brain, continually flooding and blocking up dopamine receptors. The patient will experience overwhelming dread, and anxiety, despite all sensual input.

 

[blackcat]

Whether or not Harry's tales are part of his problems or partial cause is neither here nor there, it's hard to doubt that he has them (problems) and that his blow-up, well after the initial discussion about "lezi's" nickname, outside of the team meeting was extremely likely because of his problems and not some deep seated hatred of Bucks coaching methods.
The media, Barrett initially and then Robbo, made quick assumptions of what occurred, wrongly as it turned out and ran with a story the assumed was football related ie. Player clashes with coach. Robbo's wild fantasy ride of self indignation at Harry's treatment of Buck, his oh so "faux" concern for Bucks personal feelings and standing at the club and in football in general were a truly lol-worthy sideshow to the real events, leaving him looking the half pissed, footy shock jock he aspires to be. I loved that his rant on what happened and should happen, published while he was still in the dark to the real events, was actually removed from the web by his employer.
In hindsight both Barrett and Robbo have probably wished they had not been given the info without knowing the full background of the story, but it's their own assumptions which led them to pontificate in ignorance on anothers "actions".
From all reports, informed ones from those immediately around Harry, this is not the first time the Club, and/or people associated with Harry through the club have been confronted with the issues Harry openly admits he has yet to come to terms with.

If the entire issue had remained in-house as it has for several years and the widely held misinterpretation of the blow-up with not just Buckley but Walshe and Buttifant, was not plastered all over the media as evidence of their current "Bucks Friction" agenda, I think hardly a word would have been posted on the matter. Harry would not have had his "public confession" and the wider public would go on either hating, loving or being totally indifferent to him.

Anyway it's played out though, nothing changes the fact Harry has an issue, the club has, long ago, committed to helping him through it or that Harry believes and acts like his "faux" persona is very real.

i just think the dude does not need media air-time. but he has been the one who has actively courted the media. like ruby rose. they want it both ways. they consciously appeal to the public for their appropation, then do their gander when opprobrium meets instead.

is Mathew Lloyd's older brother the sports psychologist at Collingwood. cos someone should pull him aside, and tell him the public profile is not helping him, and if he wishes to make up yarns, he is gonna find himself the target of ridicule.

Bucks aint actually a bad bloke. for all the contempt heaped on him, i know of an anecdote when he was copping it at a pub around 2000, and he just asked the bloke to give him a break, and gave him $50 to buy himself a beer. 2000 pots prices, on one of those student nights. would buy you 25 drinks. Whereas OBrien actively positions himself in that Movember demographic. where everyone has a cause, and is a humanitarian. everyone as a humanitarian, but no-one is a humanitarian. See KONY.

 

[blackcat]

despite all sensual input.

well, catch 22 when you lose libido as a symptom of depression.

edit:can one lose libido, or is libido dampened/nullified.

 

[evo]

No-one would make the slightest mention if he was your run of the mill Christian.
.

Most run of the mill Chrisitans aren't seeking an audience with Obama to advise him on world affairs or dispensing spriritual 'wisdom' to anyone who'll listen.

 

[blackcat]

Most run of the mill Chrisitans aren't seeking an audience with Obama to advise him on world affairs or dispensing spriritual 'wisdom' to anyone who'll listen.

to be fair to heritier o'brien, could he be worse than rudd and datsun120B as Secretary of State?

i'll give smith has him covered tho'. but those two egocentric heads of state are not much

 

[Demonic Ascent]

If I may, I would like to answer your question in a different way.

The first thing I will say is that depression has varying levels to it from mild to major. From this, you can get other issues that mix with the depression such as bi polar, anxiety etc. I say these things because these factors really play a part in whether you can just will yourself out of it or not or if you have to take other steps.

Modern medicine has treated depression and other forms of psychological battles wrongly. The chemical imbalance theory that most doctors use as a reason to pop a pill has in the past 5 years been proven wrong on many accounts. There is no way to measure the levels of the important neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine and GABA. Instead, these big pharmaceutical companies are raking in huge amounts of dollars at the expense of peoples health. If you are at university, go into your scholarly article base and do some research. Why do I believe this? Well from my own personal struggles with anxiety. I saw the light eventually through my own research.

I will however, add to the above that some people are predisposed to lower levels of certain transmitters which can leave them vulnerable to episodes of depression or anxiety. However, the answer again is NOT drugs but instead correct nutrition. We are all biologically and biochemically different so you can't say that everyone requires the say amount of Omega three fatty acids to assist with depressive states. We are all different. Some of us may require more than others.

The diet of the Western world has a lot to do with the rampant rise in psychological disorders and if you couple that with the bully mentality society that we live in, then it is no wonder that psychological disorders are rising. Notice that I don't use the word illness? I hate labels and depression or anxiety are not an illness but are a disorder that primarily results from three important factors: 1) Your environment you grew up in; 2) Diet; 3) Your behaviours. I know some of you who have depression or anxiety will disagree with me that it is an illness and I don't mind that you have your opinion. However, I disagree with the illness label. It is just not true. I have been through it all so I understand the difficulties. I will add that some people with certain types of MAJOR MAJOR depression may require the assistance of psychotropic drugs but the majority of people with anxiety or depression don't. All they need is a pair of ears for listening so that they are able to become observant of their behaviours that are keeping them stuck.

How did I get through it? Well I was forced to radically change my view on life from my diet to my thinking. When I became observant, I realised that my thinking was not helpful. It's not about being positive 24/7 but realising what patterns of thinking are keeping you stuck. Thoughts always lead to feelings. Your feelings are product of your thoughts. Depression and anxiety thinking ALWAYS stresses your body leading to a high usage of key nutrients such as B vitamins and magnesium. Couple this with NO exercise and a terrible western diet and your body struggles to cope. You get stuck in a depressive/fear cycle. Your body becomes overused particularly your endocrine and nervous systems.Thus, you need to fix these first.

There is a lot more to it but the keys to overcoming depression and anxiety are: 1) Diet (BIGGEST FACTOR); 2) Exercise; 3) Listening ears (a good coach/counselor); 4)Compassion and empathy for yourself. In other words let things be as they are. Don't try to be happy because you will dig yourself a whole. Accept the moment as it is; 5) Mediation/Relaxation - Calm your body down. The world today is a mad rush of a place. Take a moment to come back to you.

So simply to answer you question, your thinking leads to feelings/emotions. A lot of people with depression or anxiety live by their emotions. It is not a healthy way to live because feelings tend to lie. Emotions are energy charges things which tend to cloud our judgement and mind.

There is more to the concept of thinking leads to feelings/emotions because if this was the case, then if we just think happy thoughts, then we will be happy. But it doesn't work that way. You can't force an emotion on. I believe it's primarily a subconscious thing. In order to be happy, we need to take a step back and witness our thinking. Become an observer and come closer to your true values in life because the reality is is that no one can do it for you.

This is a great post and I was going to write something along similar lines.

Taking as fact that depression/mental disorders are caused by chemical imbalances (though I concede there is no real "evidence" to prove this is the case) the question is what causes the imbalance? Modern psychiatry would have you believe they are inherent biologically in the person whereas I think it is far more likely that most cases would be due to temporary imbalances caused by the persons environment, specifically their diet, exercise, parents/formative years and even things such as education and financial situation. I think it is far more likely that there are external factors impacting on the persons chemical levels that can be altered and controlled individually rather than it being something inherent and permanent that can only be controlled through medication bought from Pfizer.

While some people may have severe disorders and others have a predisposition to suffering from the disorders I feel the above holds true in most diagnosed cases. As you point out there is a difference between an illness and a disorder the main one being someone with an "illness" has little control over it and is reliant on medication whereas someone wih a disorder can generally control it through their environment and actions.

As for the OP I think it is a long bow to draw to try and absolve people from personal responsibilities by stating things such as laziness etc can be caused by inherent chemical imbalances. It is more likely they are lazy because they consume too much crap (physically and psychologically). It is sad that this is where history has taken us but it seems to be the natural evolution of a consumerist/ego-driven society and the absolution of personal responsibility found in most major religions.

 

[rayven]

caused by chemical imbalances (though I concede there is no real "evidence" to prove this is the case)

Lots of scientists say that god can't be proved, some have made a career out of it and been worshiped by atheists. Athiests use science as their bible. They say they work by some model that is evidence based, when trying to claim the high moral ground.

But then you get the point you make...makes you question science.....what else is bullshit? When you've been where yidaki has, you start to find out.

Some Pr firm when trying to sell drugs to doctors came up with the chemical imbalance theory and it went from there....That's science...

Next time your in the doctors and in front of you goes a drug company rep, ask them how they get paid?

If we're to chat about those with a disorder from the way there parents tret them, it actually turns out the moment they don't comply with the mental health system (in the smallest way)the emotional abuse their parents dished out, is repeated.

It phuqs with your head when you know something to be not right in your family (like you not being the golden child) and its either beaten bullied or shouted out of you. The system does exactly the same to the patient who questions their treatment. You only need look at the lies around medications and the denial of the side effects.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Hmm I agree with most of your post rayven but take issue with the first and last point;

1) Science is a method, not a belief system so to say it is used as a "bible" is a fallacy - science could one day prove the existence of a god, what would happen then? Massive psychic breaks with reality on both sides of the equation

2) Most psychotropic drugs I have seen have laundry lists of possible side effects listed so not sure I agree that they deny these. They usually include more rather than less to cover themselves "just in case"

 

[blackcat]

these big pharmaceutical companies are raking in huge amounts of dollars

BigPharma and ssri's in the orient.

was the most read article on the grey lady online in 2009 or whenever it was published. in print, it was part of their weekend magazine
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/magazine/10psyche-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0