Details on National Comp?

[TWLS]

You have done your homework Jatz14- Great outline of a possible solution.
Also another bit of info has emerged -- It appears that Womens/Girls AFL Academies will be established eventually in all States.

We were curious to see what the other Womens footy codes other than Soccer Football were doing.
Rugby Union --has Sevens and 15 a side National Teams who compete Internationally with the Sevens getting a boost with that format now in the Olympics. The 15 a side format held their first National Champs this year with ALL States involved.
Rugby League -- has a National team that competes Internationally and their activities seem confined to the two Northern States.
Neither code has a National League.

This Web Site focuses on Tassie Womens footy which now has 7 clubs and still expanding and had a player drafted into the recent Womens Exhibition match in Melbourne which now looks like a foundation event for the mooted National Comp.
The site has articles about the development of the game there. Very interesting that the Womens game may assist the declining number of Mens clubs due to recessions.
Also a mention of a Womens AFL Academy to be established in Tasmania.
http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-7184-0-0-0&sID=151245

 

[jatz14]

For those wondering at the lofty status of Queensland in womens footy.

The Queensland U17 Youth Girls championships has just finished. This is a 4 day event between 12 regional representative teams, in 3 divisions of 4 teams. Details http://www.aflq.com.au/u17-youth-girls-state-championships-this-weekend/ Facebook of the event https://www.facebook.com/AFLQFemaleFooty. This is off the back of a first ever U14 girls carnival. It leaves AFL Queensland with a pool of about 250 players identified through the regions as players to watch, to feed into next years U18 state team, and ultimately senior footy.

This is streets ahead of WA/SA etc etc.

They have also set up (boys and girls), a new school comp to start next year. http://www.aflq.com.au/new-premier-schools-comp-to-kick-off-in-2016/
This is one comp, with 3 age divisions covering primary to year 12. Funded by AFL Queensland, and set up to be the role model for school sports comps in Queensland.

Finally, the AFL Queensland end of year award function is one event for the mens and womens comps, so the best female players get awarded at the same event as the best men. If you are trying to signal to female athletes your seriousness about how you view womens place in the footy sports landscape, this is a pretty good way to do it.

If the attitude and organisation in Queensland could be replicated elsewhere, womens footy would explode (even more so than it is).

 

[SgtSchulz]

Lessons from the US.

Having men and women playing in the same club makes the club strong.

 

[TWLS]

Lessons from the US.

Having men and women playing in the same club makes the club strong.

That is definitely correct.
The report below mentions about halfway down ---
AFL Clubs --- Carlton, Melbourne, Western Bulldogs will be creating aligned Womens AFL sides which will include Academies.
Apparently also a big shake up of junior/youth footy in 2017.
Info on the new Womens comp is slowly coming out in various articles
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...elopment-of-young-talent-20151027-gkk0vd.html

 

[TWLS]

That is definitely correct.
The report below mentions about halfway down ---
AFL Clubs --- Carlton, Melbourne, Western Bulldogs will be creating aligned Womens AFL sides which will include Academies.
Apparently also a big shake up of junior/youth footy in 2017.
Info on the new Womens comp is slowly coming out in various articles
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...elopment-of-young-talent-20151027-gkk0vd.html

IF the info above is correct let us speculate that if Jan Coopers models of 4/6/8 teams are to be followed ---How many teams will be involved.
We could say definitely not 4. If we say 6 that means another 3 from interstate - Nah do not think only 3 clubs from Vic.
So does it end up at 8. Does that mean 4 or 5 from Vic and 3 from interstate to get to the NATIONAL model.
Anybody out there with other opinions.

 

[jatz14]

IF the info above is correct let us speculate that if Jan Coopers models of 4/6/8 teams are to be followed ---How many teams will be involved.
We could say definitely not 4. If we say 6 that means another 3 from interstate - Nah do not think only 3 clubs from Vic.
So does it end up at 8. Does that mean 4 or 5 from Vic and 3 from interstate to get to the NATIONAL model.
Anybody out there with other opinions.

Have always thought 6. 4 is to few, doesn't look like a comp, it looks like an expanded exhibition. 8 is to many in my view, at least for the first couple of years, although I do think it gets to 8.

I think 6 is ideal. An objective would be to make sure this is an elite comp, so every team in it should be better than Darebin at a minimum. 3 from Vic, 1 from Qld, SA and WA.

They would need to spread the top talent around, and I do not see how they do that without a draft, and you cannot compel people to move for sport unless they are payed.

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[CrowdedHouse]

Have always thought 6. 4 is to few, doesn't look like a comp, it looks like an expanded exhibition. 8 is to many in my view, at least for the first couple of years, although I do think it gets to 8.

I think 6 is ideal. An objective would be to make sure this is an elite comp, so every team in it should be better than Darebin at a minimum. 3 from Vic, 1 from Qld, SA and WA.

They would need to spread the top talent around, and I do not see how they do that without a draft, and you cannot compel people to move for sport unless they are payed.

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The problem is, from what I've seen, is in 2017 they will really only be enough decent talent for 4 teams.

6 teams or more and you're spreading the talent too thin.

6-8 teams is possible in 2020, once the current batch of Youth Girls develop.

 

[jatz14]

The problem is, from what I've seen, is in 2017 they will really only be enough decent talent for 4 teams.

6 teams or more and you're spreading the talent too thin.

6-8 teams is possible in 2020, once the current batch of Youth Girls develop.

That's why they need 3 teams this year. It is hard to tell the depth in my opinion. There are likely potentially really good players scattered through lower leagues, and it is hard to tell how they would go without giving them a try.

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[TWLS]

That's why they need 3 teams this year. It is hard to tell the depth in my opinion. There are likely potentially really good players scattered through lower leagues, and it is hard to tell how they would go without giving them a try.

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Thanks for the comments - Great stuff
To sort of sum up a rough road map.
2016 maybe the 3 teams as reported in the article in 3 way Exhibition Matches.
2017 --4 team initial comp however they might bite the bullet and go for 6.
2020 - 6 team comp to allow for Youth development.
All we need now is AFL House to release their initial road map.

 

[jatz14]

Thanks for the comments - Great stuff
To sort of sum up a rough road map.
2016 maybe the 3 teams as reported in the article in 3 way Exhibition Matches.
2017 --4 team initial comp however they might bite the bullet and go for 6.
2020 - 6 team comp to allow for Youth development.
All we need now is AFL House to release their initial road map.

Not sure they have a road map. More making it up as they go along, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just frustrating for those interested.

 

[TWLS]

Not sure they have a road map. More making it up as they go along, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just frustrating for those interested.

We have found this long article on various aspects of the Womans game. One of the architects of the new comp Simon Lethlean talks about the all important pay structure for the players in 2017. The number of possible teams also gets a mention.
The article also covers the careers to date of three leading women players who can see their dreams to play in a national league getting closer.
I think Jatz14 is right the challenges facing the new comp are many.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...s/news-story/fc4824d2fb6ffe1794df4e869d3e4900

 

[TWLS]

We have found this long article on various aspects of the Womans game. One of the architects of the new comp Simon Lethlean talks about the all important pay structure for the players in 2017. The number of possible teams also gets a mention.
The article also covers the careers to date of three leading women players who can see their dreams to play in a national league getting closer.
I think Jatz14 is right the challenges facing the new comp are many.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...s/news-story/fc4824d2fb6ffe1794df4e869d3e4900

The FFA which runs Soccer Football in Australia has announced they have done a pay deal with their Womens National team -- The Matildas --
A couple of points on this.
They do not play in a regular season and get involved in International matches only.
However as a Womens Football code in general it gives a reference point for our Women Footy players.
The deal is -- The best players will receive $41,000 per year. The next group will receive $31,000 per year. They also receive annual increases of 13% over the life of the deal which was not mentioned.
Of course we do not have a National Team - YET. The figures above maybe of interest to the AFL in their planning.
I would have thought that Womens Soccer Football is growing Internationally so the amounts above look low to me.

 

[jatz14]

The FFA which runs Soccer Football in Australia has announced they have done a pay deal with their Womens National team -- The Matildas --
A couple of points on this.
They do not play in a regular season and get involved in International matches only.
However as a Womens Football code in general it gives a reference point for our Women Footy players.
The deal is -- The best players will receive $41,000 per year. The next group will receive $31,000 per year. They also receive annual increases of 13% over the life of the deal which was not mentioned.
Of course we do not have a National Team - YET. The figures above maybe of interest to the AFL in their planning.
I would have thought that Womens Soccer Football is growing Internationally so the amounts above look low to me.

I think it is low, but they are banking on the fact that they also get match payments, and they also get payed by their club team, plus for a few, they get payed by their international club team. For the top players, if they get 10 k from their club, and 20k from playing overseas, it adds up.

Of course, most female players are not in the Matilda's. Get little to nothing from the club, and do not play overseas.

The AFL should be looking to beat the soccer deals, and make a few women question their choice of sport.

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[jatz14]

AFL has launched a womens academy in Victoria for 100 players. One of the stated aims is to give players the tools to be draft ready. I think we can probably assume that 2017 is no longer an aspirational target, but the planned launch date.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc...68-0-0-0&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=37446573

 

[TWLS]

I think it is low, but they are banking on the fact that they also get match payments, and they also get payed by their club team, plus for a few, they get payed by their international club team. For the top players, if they get 10 k from their club, and 20k from playing overseas, it adds up.

Of course, most female players are not in the Matilda's. Get little to nothing from the club, and do not play overseas.

The AFL should be looking to beat the soccer deals, and make a few women question their choice of sport.

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I have just learnt something -- I thought the players in the Matildas only played for their Aussie clubs. You are spot on with your comments about the pay rates for the upcoming comp.
Speaking of a National Womens footy team what would be a good name, assuming they dont have one ATM.

There is already a National Womens Aboriginal Team called the Woomeras who are touring to NZ in December to play two matches in Auckland.
This is their second tour to NZ and will play the NZ U18 National Team - The Kahu - were formed in 2013 out of their Youth/High School Comps. The Kahu will definitely be at the 2017 International Cup.

 

[TWLS]

AFL has launched a womens academy in Victoria for 100 players. One of the stated aims is to give players the tools to be draft ready. I think we can probably assume that 2017 is no longer an aspirational target, but the planned launch date.

http://www.foxsportspulse.com/assoc...68-0-0-0&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=37446573

Noticed they will get access to several AFL clubs facilities which is a big plus and a boost to the players morale.

 

[TWLS]

Noticed they will get access to several AFL clubs facilities which is a big plus and a boost to the players morale.

The information continues to trickle out as we thought would happen ---Apparently 6 to 10 clubs are interested which would require about 200 players of a reasonable standard to compete. This ABC piece does not have an author but they did interview a high level Womens Footy official who would be reasonably close to the discussions.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/afl-womens-academy-kicks-off-ahead-of-2017-season/6926184

 

[jatz14]

The information continues to trickle out as we thought would happen ---Apparently 6 to 10 clubs are interested which would require about 200 players of a reasonable standard to compete. This ABC piece does not have an author but they did interview a high level Womens Footy official who would be reasonably close to the discussions.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/afl-womens-academy-kicks-off-ahead-of-2017-season/6926184

Think 10 of the bat is a stretch, in terms of talent and funding. Can see it getting to 10, but after quite a few years

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[CrowdedHouse]

Story on women's footy in the ACT
http://www.[NB: girlsplayfooty doma...1/act-female-footy-capital-of-excellence.html

 

[TWLS]

Story on women's footy in the ACT
http://www.[NB: girlsplayfooty doma...1/act-female-footy-capital-of-excellence.html

Here is a preview of future plans for Womens Footy in WA in relation to the new National comp.
200 players from all over the state will be selected to join the WA Womens Academy.
http://www.wafootball.com.au/news/9590/developing-female-champions

 

[TWLS]

Here is a preview of future plans for Womens Footy in WA in relation to the new National comp.
200 players from all over the state will be selected to join the WA Womens Academy.
http://www.wafootball.com.au/news/9590/developing-female-champions

The article below is from the online Huffington Post web site who are one of many new International news websites setting up in Australia.
The topics covered are quite wide and range from the new VFL Womens Academy to videos of the Women training and the support networks that will be in place. Also covers some info from Interstate. It looks like the AFL will sort out the clubs tender bids from those who have tendered by March next year and go from there, and it will be interesting to see which AFL clubs actually got involved.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2015/11/21/womens-afl-football-academy_n_8594918.html

 

[jatz14]

Article on Girls Play Footy http://www.[NB: girlsplayfooty doma...5/10/a-glimpse-into-female-footys-future.html

That is a fair basis for 6 teams, and I have watched the grand finals for the WAWFL, QWAFL, and Sydney AFL recently, and it would be fair to say each game had another 5 or 6 players as good as players already listed. Another 30 players to add to the lists would be readily available out of current players, and with another year of girls coming out of Youth girls, getting to 20 decent players per team by 2017 is feasible. The issue will be the next 8 - 10 on the list.

The other issue is the lack of details on the coming comp, and what will happen. I think they have it backwards here. The stakeholders in Female footy are the trailblazers here, and it is in the nature of trailblazing that no one can tell you where exactly to go, or the best way to get there. The AFL have not announced a framework or vision for the womens comp, for the female footy fraternity to move towards, because it is the female footy fraternity that is creating the vision and framework.

The AFL is not blazing a trail for womens footy to follow, womens footy is blazing a trail for the AFL to follow.

The female footy 'industry' has not announced a plan for one simple reason, it isnt ready.

When it comes, they will want it to be clear, developed and concrete. This number of teams, this number of players, this structure, this schedule, this process. They do not want to announce a vague plan of, hoping for this number of teams, would like this number of players, maybe start about then, hoping that this process may work.

Vague plans announced early that they cannot quite meet makes them look like the part time amateur somewhat dis organised female sport they used to be, when they want to be seen as a part of an organisation considered the most professional and organised in Australian sport.

 

[TWLS]

Article on Girls Play Footy http://www.[NB: girlsplayfooty doma...5/10/a-glimpse-into-female-footys-future.html

That is a fair basis for 6 teams, and I have watched the grand finals for the WAWFL, QWAFL, and Sydney AFL recently, and it would be fair to say each game had another 5 or 6 players as good as players already listed. Another 30 players to add to the lists would be readily available out of current players, and with another year of girls coming out of Youth girls, getting to 20 decent players per team by 2017 is feasible. The issue will be the next 8 - 10 on the list.

The other issue is the lack of details on the coming comp, and what will happen. I think they have it backwards here. The stakeholders in Female footy are the trailblazers here, and it is in the nature of trailblazing that no one can tell you where exactly to go, or the best way to get there. The AFL have not announced a framework or vision for the womens comp, for the female footy fraternity to move towards, because it is the female footy fraternity that is creating the vision and framework.

The AFL is not blazing a trail for womens footy to follow, womens footy is blazing a trail for the AFL to follow.

The female footy 'industry' has not announced a plan for one simple reason, it isnt ready.

When it comes, they will want it to be clear, developed and concrete. This number of teams, this number of players, this structure, this schedule, this process. They do not want to announce a vague plan of, hoping for this number of teams, would like this number of players, maybe start about then, hoping that this process may work.

Vague plans announced early that they cannot quite meet makes them look like the part time amateur somewhat dis organised female sport they used to be, when they want to be seen as a part of an organisation considered the most professional and organised in Australian sport.

I think that the announcement that 2017 will be the date instead of the previous 2020 has caused a few areas of concern. The AFL boss is driving the change so you would think he would have allocated resources to handle the amended target year.
Of course the footy media is also tracking this development so they have to have "something" regularly to feed their 24/7 news cycle so that is where the "leaking" comes in.

 

[jatz14]

I think that the announcement that 2017 will be the date instead of the previous 2020 has caused a few areas of concern. The AFL boss is driving the change so you would think he would have allocated resources to handle the amended target year.
Of course the footy media is also tracking this development so they have to have "something" regularly to feed their 24/7 news cycle so that is where the "leaking" comes in.

There will be a lot of leaking, planned and unplanned. There are so many ducks to line up, it is going to take a while, and the AFL will have a big say. So much depends on what they do. How deep are they prepared to dig into their pockets, what are they looking for the league to achieve. However, while the broad direction is being pushed by the AFL, I think most of the detail people are looking for will have to come from female footy.

The AFL isn't saying, there will be X teams, they are asking, how many teams? So it is pointless asking them for guidance on how many teams there will be, they will know how many when the women's league gate keepers tell them how many.

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[CrowdedHouse]

There will be a lot of leaking, planned and unplanned. There are so many ducks to line up, it is going to take a while, and the AFL will have a big say. So much depends on what they do. How deep are they prepared to dig into their pockets, what are they looking for the league to achieve. However, while the broad direction is being pushed by the AFL, I think most of the detail people are looking for will have to come from female footy.

The AFL isn't saying, there will be X teams, they are asking, how many teams? So it is pointless asking them for guidance on how many teams there will be, they will know how many when the women's league gate keepers tell them how many.

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From what I've heard, it seems March 2016 that will announce what clubs will form the National League.

I worry when I hear speculation that there could be 8 or 10 teams. Quite simply, there isn't enough 'elite' female footballers to supply for that many teams.
Note when I say 'elite'. That's the best of the best. If this league is to have impact from day one, it has to have the correct amount of teams to evenly spread the 'elite' footballers, with no passengers, and even a few elite players missing out.

Making a number of elite/very good player miss out creates good competition for spots, and also retains a certain level of quality on the state leagues.

Talking about state leagues, I'm very cautious about the new Victorian state league. When I hear about women's games playing curtain raisers to VFL games, yes that's good for exposure of the players, but what about gate/canteen takings? Will the women's clubs get a piece of the action? If not, this competition will end up being very expensive for them, especially as many run on the smell of an oily rag.