Difference between Islam and Extremism

[Malifice]

You're right, it definitely could be kids. But attempting to burn down a church isn't something that 'just kids' would do. The vast majority of times a place of worship is attached, it's a religiously motivated hate crime.

It happens.

White supremacist graffiti sprayed on Perth mosque in third attack in eight months

White supremacist graffiti has been sprayed on the walls of a Perth mosque in the latest anti-Muslim attack on the building. An alarm at the Masjid Ibrahim Islamic Mosque in Southern River went off about 1:30am on Saturday.

The letters "KKK" were scrawled on glass doors and on walls in black letters. It is not the first time the mosque has been targeted by vandals. In November, a pig's head was dumped outside the mosque's doors, and in June a swastika and the phrase "white power" were sprayed on the walls

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-16/white-supremacist-graffitti-sprayed-on-mosque/6121596

 

[PowerbaII]

It happens.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-16/white-supremacist-graffitti-sprayed-on-mosque/6121596

Where did I say it didn't? Your article backed up what I said, the majority of times a place of worship is attacked, it's a religiously motivated hate crime. In the latest church attack in Melbourne, it's highly likely Muslims were responsible as Allah Akbar was written. Just like that Perth mosque damage was likely caused by white supremacists.

 

[Malifice]

Where did I say it didn't? Your article backed up what I said, the majority of times a place of worship is attacked, it's a religiously motivated hate crime. In the latest church attack in Melbourne, it's highly likely Muslims were responsible as Allah Akbar was written. Just like that Perth mosque damage was likely caused by white supremacists.

CCTV caught teenage kids running away from the Mosque actually, and its highly doubtful that they were members of the KKK as they claimed to be on the graffiti.

 

[PowerbaII]

CCTV caught teenage kids running away from the Mosque actually, and its highly doubtful that they were members of the KKK as they claimed to be on the graffiti.

They don't necessarily have to be members, but they might like the KKK's ideology. Regardless, both are religiously motivated hate crimes, even if the police are unwilling to call the church vandalism a hate crime due to political correctness.

 

[Malifice]

They don't necessarily have to be members, but they might like the KKK's ideology. Regardless, both are religiously motivated hate crimes, even if the police are unwilling to call the church vandalism a hate crime due to political correctness.

What? How do you know the police are unwilling to call it a hate crime due to political correctness?

You just made that last bit up.

 

[PowerbaII]

What? How do you know the police are unwilling to call it a hate crime due to political correctness?

You just made that last bit up.

Police told Local 6 they are hesitant to label the case as a hate crime because they don't want to alarm the public.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/vandals-set-fire-at-brevard-church-write-allahu-akbar/31313628

If it was a mosque, it would have been labelled a hate crime instantly without hesitation.

 

[Malifice]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/vandals-set-fire-at-brevard-church-write-allahu-akbar/31313628

If it was a mosque, it would have been labelled a hate crime instantly without hesitation.

Read the damn article (from your link):

A possible hate crime is under investigation after a fire was set at a Central Florida church, where vandals also spray-painted "Allahu Akbar.

"To find something like that in 2015 is unbelievable. It's just disheartening," said New Shiloh Christian Church Bishop Jacquelyn Gordon. "They [the police] told us that this is definitely a hate crime and that they're going to patrol our area even more and just look out for us and they thought it was senseless and I feel the same way."

 

[PowerbaII]

Read the damn article (from your link):

I did, and they are hesitant to officially label it a hate crime. It's easy to tell people from the church that it's a hate crime, but officially labeling it one is another thing. There should be no hesitation, but in the PC western world that we live in it's rare to see common sense prevail.

 

[Malifice]

I did, and they are hesitant to officially label it a hate crime. It's easy to tell people from the church that it's a hate crime, but officially labeling it one is another thing. There should be no hesitation, but in the PC western world that we live in it's rare to see common sense prevail.

How on earth can the Cops know if it is (in fact) a hate crime yet or not? They are certainly looking into the fact it might be, and certainly weren't holding back on announcing it as a possibility (and indicating to the church owners that it looks like it might be one).

For it to be a hate crime, we generally need to know the intent of the offenders, and they haven't been caught yet.

It's like if the cops find a body with a gunshot wound to the head. They wont label it as 'definitely a murder' until they have ruled out manslaughter, suicide and other possible crimes.

 

[PowerbaII]

How on earth can the Cops know if it is (in fact) a hate crime yet or not? They are certainly looking into the fact it might be, and certainly weren't holding back on announcing it as a possibility (and indicating to the church owners that it looks like it might be one).

For it to be a hate crime, we generally need to know the intent of the offenders, and they haven't been caught yet.

It's like if the cops find a body with a gunshot wound to the head. They wont label it as 'definitely a murder' until they have ruled out manslaughter, suicide and other possible crimes.

Since the church was burned by arsonists with 'Allah Akbar' written, I think the intent of the offenders is fairly obvious. If a church was burned with a pigs head found next to it, it would be just as obvious that it was a hate crime. There's nothing stopping the cops from saying to the public that we are treating this case as a hate crime, but they are too hesitant in doing that because 'it might alarm the public'. Would cops be scared of alarming the public if the same thing happened to a mosque? Not a chance.

 

[the_interloper]

I did, and they are hesitant to officially label it a hate crime. It's easy to tell people from the church that it's a hate crime, but officially labeling it one is another thing. There should be no hesitation, but in the PC western world that we live in it's rare to see common sense prevail.

It could have been a black metal band trying to throw the cops off the scent.

 

[Malifice]

Since the church was burned by arsonists with 'Allah Akbar' written, I think the intent of the offenders is fairly obvious. If a church was burned with a pigs head found next to it, it would be just as obvious that it was a hate crime. There's nothing stopping the cops from saying to the public that we are treating this case as a hate crime, but they are too hesitant in doing that because 'it might alarm the public'.

The thing stopping the cops from saying we are treating is a hate crime is they don't know if its a hate crime yet. Why are you finding this so hard to grasp?

Would cops be scared of alarming the public if the same thing happened to a mosque? Not a chance.

Would members of the public be alarmed if it happened to a Mosque?

 

[PowerbaII]

The thing stopping the cops from saying we are treating is a hate crime is they don't know if its a hate crime yet. Why are you finding this so hard to grasp?

I never had a problem with that. I have a problem with them hesitating to call it a hate crime because 'it might alarm the public'.

Would members of the public be alarmed if it happened to a Mosque?

Yes. No one likes arson attacks.

 

[Malifice]

I never had a problem with that. I have a problem with them hesitating to call it a hate crime because 'it might alarm the public'.

Why on earth would you have a problem with the police not calling a crime a hate crime (when they don't know if its a hate crime yet) with one of the stated reasons being they don't want to unnecessarily alarm the public.

Isn't it the same thing when they are trying to confirm if a murder is a one off or (for example) a probable serial killer at large?

Like; they don't confirm its the work of a serial killer... until they know its a serial killer. So as not to alarm the public.

 

[PowerbaII]

Why on earth would you have a problem with the police not calling a crime a hate crime (when they don't know if its a hate crime yet) with one of the stated reasons being they don't want to unnecessarily alarm the public.

Isn't it the same thing when they are trying to confirm if a murder is a one off or (for example) a probable serial killer at large?

Like; they don't confirm its the work of a serial killer... until they know its a serial killer. So as not to alarm the public.

The problem I have lies with the double standards with the police hesitant to call it a hate crime. If this was a mosque that had been burned and someone wrote 'Mohammed is a dog' on a wall next to the mosque, do you honestly think they would be hesitant to call it a hate crime?

 

[Malifice]

The problem I have lies with the double standards with the police hesitant to call it a hate crime. If this was a mosque that had been burned and someone wrote 'Mohammed is a dog' on a wall next to the mosque, do you honestly think they would be hesitant to call it a hate crime?

Supposition. I have no thoughts one way or the other.

 

[Number37]

and what were your thoughts on the actual article?

I'm interested, especially in this part:

The caliphate, Cerantonio told me, is not just a political entity but also a vehicle for salvation. Islamic State propaganda regularly reports the pledges of baya’a (allegiance) rolling in from jihadist groups across the Muslim world. Cerantonio quoted a Prophetic saying, that to die without pledging allegiance is to die jahil (ignorant) and therefore die a “death of disbelief.” Consider how Muslims (or, for that matter, Christians) imagine God deals with the souls of people who die without learning about the one true religion. They are neither obviously saved nor definitively condemned. Similarly, Cerantonio said, the Muslim who acknowledges one omnipotent god and prays, but who dies without pledging himself to a valid caliph and incurring the obligations of that oath, has failed to live a fully Islamic life

Not sure what it adds to the debate in light of failing to address its own question.

(1) There hasn't been a caliphate for more than a hundred years.
(2) A caliphate cannot be self proclaimed, it requires the support of all Muslims.
(3) There being no caliphate, there can be no valid caliph to pledge to.
(4) Muslims are only permitted to pledge themselves to God.
(5) The Koran outlines what is right and what is wrong, it is not for others to judge who has and who hasn't lived a fully Islamic life.
(6) The 5 pillars of Islam 1. There is no God but Allah & Muhammed is his messenger 2. Pray 3. Zakat 4. Fast 5. Haj (no mention of pledging to the caliph.)

 

[Power Raid]

I would recommend having a read of this https://timeguide.wordpress.com/2014/06/22/isis-comparison-with-the-ira-conflict/

Really good article discussing difference between the two groups.

After reading that, I saw more similarities than differences

 

[medusala]

How on earth can the Cops know if it is (in fact) a hate crime yet or not?

How can they ever know? Why aren't aboriginal assaults on white folk ever deemed a hate crime? Ditto ethnic on white in the UK?

Imagine if gangs of white men in numerous UK cities had targetted and raped hundreds of Pakistani girls.

Do you think that would be called a hate crime?

Very, very arbitrary.

 

[EasyBeingGreen]

Or it could be kids being dickheads.

Like - not every swastica is sprayed by Neo nazis.

I dunno, anyone who disagrees with a certain poster on this board is labelled a Neo Nazi, I think if someone painted a swastika there'd be no holding back

 

[PowerbaII]

How can they ever know? Why aren't aboriginal assaults on white folk ever deemed a hate crime? Ditto ethnic on white in the UK?

Imagine if gangs of white men in numerous UK cities had targetted and raped hundreds of Pakistani girls.

Do you think that would be called a hate crime?

Very, very arbitrary.

Not only would it be a hate crime, there's also no chance in hell police and child authorities would have covered it up in fear of being branded a racist if they decided to do something about the hideous crimes. It also would have made world wide news and it would be a common reference used by liberals everyday. "Who cares if one Pakistani male raped a white girl? Do you remember when WHITE gangs raped 1400 girls in Rotherham?" Political correctness can be a very dangerous thing. This is why it's important we don't overuse the terms 'racist' and 'bigot' like some certain posters on here do.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I dunno, anyone who disagrees with a certain poster on this board is labelled a Neo Nazi, I think if someone painted a swastika there'd be no holding back

What is it with you guys and you aliases?

Reported.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

This is why it's important we don't overuse the terms 'racist' and 'bigot' like some certain posters on here do.

If someone says something racist, their post will be called racist.

 

[PowerbaII]

If someone says something racist, their post will be called racist.

There's the problem. What you deem racist quite often isn't necessarily racist. The people involved with the Rotherham child sex abuse cases probably thought like you did, mentally scarring hundreds of little girls for life.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

There's the problem. What you deem racist quite often isn't necessarily racist. The people involved with the Rotherham child sex abuse cases probably thought like you did, mentally scarring hundreds of little girls for life.

When someone makes the blanket statement that 'muslims contribute nothing to society', that is racist.