Difference between Islam and Extremism

[fleabitten]

Under traditional Islamic law an apostate may be given a waiting period while in incarceration to repent and accept Islam again and if not the apostate is to be killed without any reservations.[3] This traditional view of Sunni and Shia Islamic fiqhs, or schools of jurisprudence each with their own interpretation of Sharia, varies as follows:[15][16][59]

Hanafi - recommends three days of imprisonment before execution, although the delay before killing the Muslim apostate is not mandatory. Apostates who are men must be killed, states the Hanafi Sunni fiqh, while women must be held in solitary confinement and beaten every three days till they recant and return to Islam.[3]
Maliki - allows up to ten days for recantation, after which the apostate must be killed. Both men and women apostates deserve death penalty according to the traditional view of Sunni Maliki fiqh.[59]
Shafi'i - waiting period of three days is required to allow the Muslim apostate to repent and return to Islam. After the wait, execution is the traditional recommended punishment for both men and women apostates.[59]
Hanbali - waiting period not necessary, but may be granted. Execution is traditional recommended punishment for both genders of Muslim apostates.[59]
Ja'fari - waiting period not necessary, but may be granted according to this Shia fiqh. Male apostate must be executed, states the Jafari fiqh, while a female apostate must be held in solitary confinement and beaten every day at the hours of the ṣalāh, till she repents and returns to Islam.

 

[fleabitten]

It's estimated that about half of all Muslims worldwide favour the death penalty for apostasy. So even if the Koran and the Hadiths are just a bit confusing on the issue, it really doesn't matter. About a billion muslims think you should die if you abandon Islam.

 

[FalcoX]

On the subject of Quran vs Hadith, the latter are words "attributed" to people close to Prophet Mohammed. The measure of their "authenticity" is based on a certain "science of hadith", which relies on the reliability of a chain of narrators that can be traced back from the time they were compiled and written down - over two centuries after the prophet's death - to the time they were supposedly said. This is during the eighth century current era - the prophet died in 632 AD - when there was no video cameras or printing press, and the major form of recording of communication was oral transmission. This is in contrast to the Qur'an which was memorized by the prophet and many of his companions during his life, and then compiled, written down, and transmitted both orally and in writing, within fifteen years or so after the prophet's death.

As one author put it:

'The Difference Between Hadith and Sunna

Both sources remain subservient to the actual text of the Quran which is the only source which has been fully protected and preserved by God. God has only vouched for the protection of the 'dhikr' (The Quran) and not the practices of the people or of their literature.

The Quran is a message to all mankind and provides its own 'tafsir' (explanation) and claims to be fully detailed (Arabic: Mufassalan) for purposes of necessary guidance. The best interpretation can therefore only be one that is fully consistent with the Quran's own narrative, its own internal consistency and its own coherency. This approach also provides the platform for the most cogent argument.

The Quran convincingly argues for the use of no other source to be used in conjunction with its own interpretation. This is clear from various Quranic verses hence why Islamic secondary sources have not been utilised in my articles to interpret the Quran. This is indeed consistent with the Quran's own advice as to how it should be studied. This however does not imply that all Ahadith are automatically false. Rather, the Quran admits no other source to be used in conjunction with the Quran's interpretation or as a separate source for law or judge.'

http://quransmessage.com/articles/hadith FM2.htm

 

[fleabitten]

So most Muslims don't understand Islam?

That seems to be the case with most religions, I guess. Apparently, as prophets and messengers, all of those guys were pretty incompetent. They may have been wise in their day and within their own culture, but as spokesmen for an omnipotent being their performances have proved to be very poor.

 

[fleabitten]

lol...quick hide that body allah gave you

http://shop.alsharifa.com/categories/Islamic-Swimwear/

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

So Number37 have you found those quotes of mine about Iran yet? There's a search function you can use, which you may find helpful, alternatively you could stop squibbing it and acknowledge that you were wrong.

I mean, surely you can acknowledge you are wrong, especially when you are demonstrably so?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

They were just sitting around one day and decided to kill an apostate.
Sounds legit.

Mohammed flew on a magic horse and cut the moon in half.
Sounds legit.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

lol...quick hide that body allah gave you

http://shop.alsharifa.com/categories/Islamic-Swimwear/

The sad thing is that there would still be factions of Islam that would stone a woman to death for wearing one of those.

 

[The Edukator]

The sad thing is that there would still be factions of Islam that would stone a woman to death for wearing one of those.

Does that mean there are different interpretations of what a woman can and cannot wear?

It may sound simple but I was under the impression there is only supposed to be one interpretation yet we have have different dress codes in different areas? I wonder why.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Which part of any of my previous explanations don't you understand?

The Koran is unambiguous about when apostates are allowed to be killed. Apostates are allowed to be killed when they fight against Muslims. Is that difficult to understand? As I have also explained those circumstances equate to high treason, which has been punishable by death all over the world until recently and is STILL A CRIME all around the world.
Bring on the "it's different" argument.

As I have also said, Muslims are taught and believe stridently that God hands out punishment, judges right and wrong. It is NOT the place of a Muslim to know better than God. Before you (& others) go off half cocked, that is a statement of fact, unless you can provide evidence that is not what Muslims believe? Whether it is right or wrong is NOT the point of the discussion.

You really need to calm down and read what I wrote, rather than flapping around like you have above.

I am not sure if I can ask the question with anymore clarity than I did, but I will restate it:

Do you think that the death sentence for apostates is un-Islamic?

Please note, I am not asking about the Koran, I am asking whether it is un-Islamic to kill an apostate.

 

[evo]

You really need to calm down and read what I wrote, rather than flapping around like you have above.

I am not sure if I can ask the question with anymore clarity than I did, but I will restate it:

Do you think that the death sentence for apostates is un-Islamic?

Please note, I am not asking about the Koran, I am asking whether it is un-Islamic to kill an apostate.

Apropo your avatar, I thought this was rather clever:

(The one on the right)

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Apropo your avatar, I thought this was rather clever:

(The one on the right)

that is brilliant!

 

[clogged]

They should dig up Magritte and behead him.

 

[Number37]

So Number37 have you found those quotes of mine about Iran yet? There's a search function you can use, which you may find helpful, alternatively you could stop squibbing it and acknowledge that you were wrong.

I mean, surely you can acknowledge you are wrong, especially when you are demonstrably so?

I was wrong, you said nothing about Iran.

 

[medusala]

The voice of moderate Islam in the UK.

 

[Lsta062]

So most Muslims don't understand Islam?

That seems to be the case with most religions, I guess. Apparently, as prophets and messengers, all of those guys were pretty incompetent. They may have been wise in their day and within their own culture, but as spokesmen for an omnipotent being their performances have proved to be very poor.

There are Muslims who do understand the rules of Islam and the texts.

The problem is, there are also many people nowadays who attribute Islam to themselves but are ignorant in its Rules because they have not bothered to acquire the Islamic Knowledge. That does not discredit Islam. It discredits the people who did not acquire the Knowledge

 

[Lsta062]

The Qur'an and the Ahadith are both considered to be valid evidence, along with the consensus of scholars.

Remember, the amount of prayers that we as Muslims were ordered to pray every day (5 prayers) are not mentioned in the Qur'an. They were from the Hadeeth.
The thing is, the Qur'an and the Hadeeth do not contradict each other, and the consensus of the scholars also do not contradict the Qur'an and the Hadeeth. So a statement relayed that clearly contradicts the Qur'aan is either:
1. A fabricated Hadeeth, or
2. A mistranslated Hadeeth.

For the second point, I want you guys to realise something. Arabic and English are not the same language. In Arabic, one word can have many meanings, including two opposing meanings. For example, the word "Mawlaa" carries 22 different meanings. Among them, is the meaning of "master" and "slave". Master and slave are two opposites, but can be referred to by the Arabic word "Mawlaa". Someone who knows the Arabic language well would know the appropriate meanings of the word "mawlaa" in the differing contexts.

It is like us understanding the word "hand" in different contexts and not confuse one meaning with another. If I were to say the phrase "He has the world in his hands", we know it does not mean the literal hand, but rather that this person is powerful. Or the request "Can you give me a hand". We obviously know that this person is not requesting a literal hand. This person is requesting help from another.

So, you may also come across certain Ahadith that are authentic, but are mistranslated by someone who either does not know Arabic and is not familiar with its expressions, or is mistranslated by someone who knows Arabic but does not understand the Religious rules so is not qualified to translate the Religious texts.

All in all, I just wanted to point out on this forum that both the Qur'aan and the Ahadith are authentic (and valid evidence) along with the consensus (ijmaa^) of the scholars

 

[clogged]

The voice of moderate Islam in the UK.

What's with the weasel answers?

 

[_Mike_]

We often forget (society that is) that religion is purely a tool as to how you chose to live your life and that also comes back to your own interpretation of how relevant religion is to your life.

On the flip side extremism comes in to play when religion becomes a way of life and not only is this present with Islam, the same can be said about Christianity. Then we have those faiths which are outside the conventional practices such as Islam, Christianity, Buddhism etc. If you look at the Jehovah's witnesses

It is alleged that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are very strongly cultic in both doctrine and behavior, thus fitting both categories of false doctrine and mind control:

They believe that all true Christian churches are of the devil.
They believe that only 144,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses will go to heaven.
They believe that salvation is impossible outside of the Watchtower.
They are not allowed to question the Watchtower leadership or teaching.
They claim you need to read the Watchtower’s magazines and other material in order to understand the Bible correctly. If you don’t read the Watchtower’s books, you will “fall into darkness” – what they call reverting to normal Christianity.
They have falsely predicted the end of the world five times.
They are "encouraged" to visit homes for at least 10 hours per month distributing Watchtower materials.
They use their own special translation of the Bible which mistranslates the original texts.
They are well known to disown, shun, and ignore any friends and family leaving the organization.
They discourage tertiary education.

Another twisted faith?

 

[Number37]

Targeting people for no good reason....heros!!

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/austr...r-singlet-protest/ar-AA9x9z9?ocid=mailsignout


#IstandwithMariam

 

[crackerjack4X4]

Well f*** me! I thought they were talking about us kiwi's

 

[WA ROO]

If you look at the Jehovah's witnesses

It is alleged that the Jehovah’s Witnesses are very strongly cultic in both doctrine and behavior, thus fitting both categories of false doctrine and mind control:

They believe that all true Christian churches are of the devil.
They believe that only 144,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses will go to heaven.
They believe that salvation is impossible outside of the Watchtower.
They are not allowed to question the Watchtower leadership or teaching.
They claim you need to read the Watchtower’s magazines and other material in order to understand the Bible correctly. If you don’t read the Watchtower’s books, you will “fall into darkness” – what they call reverting to normal Christianity.
They have falsely predicted the end of the world five times.
They are "encouraged" to visit homes for at least 10 hours per month distributing Watchtower materials.
They use their own special translation of the Bible which mistranslates the original texts.
They are well known to disown, shun, and ignore any friends and family leaving the organization.
They discourage tertiary education.

Another twisted faith?

I married into a JW family
The most extreme become full time door knockers called pioneers or missionaries overseas

Never known one to strap semtex to themselves or cut the throat of a non JW

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I was wrong, you said nothing about Iran.

So now can you please point to any bigoted posts I have made?

 

[medusala]

What's with the weasel answers?

Moderate human rights group. Unfortunately plenty of these get funded by the government. Blair was sucked in badly in the past.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-to-turn-them-into-supporters-of-terror.html

For Cage is no collection of isolated loonies. As The Telegraph will describe here, it is part of a closely connected network of extremists relentlessly — and successfully — lying to young British Muslims that they are hated and persecuted by their fellow citizens in order to make them into supporters of terror. Cage has an active outreach programme in mosques, universities and community groups. Even more disturbingly, it continues to be treated as a credible partner by respected and respectable organisations, including Liberty and Amnesty International.

Cage’s first lie — or at least partial truth — is that it is a “human rights advocacy group”, working with communities unjustly affected by the “war on terror”. It does work with people who have been tortured, or held without proper legal process, such as Shaker Aamer, the last British prisoner in Guantánamo Bay
.....
Other Cage favourites include Abu Qatada, the al-Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki — linked to at least a dozen terrorist attacks — and Boko Haram, the Nigerian Islamist group which abducted 275 schoolgirls (the Bring Back Our Girls campaign is a “colonial trope” and criticism of Boko Haram is about “demonising Islam”, according to the Cage website.)

 

[Filthy Sanchez]

So if this is the place to ask Muslims questions then can I ask how the Islamic view of head dresses are not sexist?

Girls begin wearing head dresses when they hit puberty as they must hide their beauty away so that boys and men will not be tempted. Why are women blamed for men's temptations? Furthermore women may not enter mosques if they are not wearing some sort of head dress. How does a Muslim girl in a Muslim household have a "free choice" in this? How does this practice continue to hold up in Australia despite progressive feminism making great strides in other areas of the community? Sorry if this has already been asked