Difference between Islam and Extremism

[cartwright]

See my previous post.



Yes.

So, to extend on that

You don't think it's wrong to teach children something that is, essentially, an opinion?

And

Do you think that there is any danger in teaching impressionable young Australians that the west, is the cause for the slaughter and terrorism of Muslims?

 

[Number37]

I asked you a number of a questions which you failed to answer.



I asked why they should be afforded the "utmost respect", if I (or others) do not regard them as messengers.



I asked you why I should regard Mohammed as a "messenger from God', therefore earning my "utmost respect". Purely on the say-so of a number of people? No answer.



I asked you if I should also show the utmost respect to the teachings and doctrines of the followers of Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard, who some regard as 'prophets". Should I show the utmost respect to the teachings of any person who claims he or she is a 'prophet"? No answer.



I asked you why not.. No answer.



I asked you to provide an argument for the 'legitimacy' of prophets and why I should accept their status as 'prophets. No answer.

Actually you chose to disregard everything that I said for reasons apparent to only you.

The starting point has to be that he is a prophet and should be afforded the respect of a prophet if only because that is the belief of some people. It can cause no harm respecting the beliefs of other people.

Do you understand just how important the prophet is in Islam and to Muslims?

No the starting point is respect. If you want to start by rubishing other people's beliefs how the dickens would you have any chance of them even listening to a word that you say?

1. Showing respect and having the right to have your own view aren't mutually exclusive, unless you want them to be.

Are you saying that your opinion is more credible than anything that I may base my views on?
Unfortunately it just doesn't cut it for me, on top of that it sounds remarkably like a lot of the same old unsubstantiated opinion proferred by the other Richard Dawkins wannabes in this thread.

In summary;
You ( you personally) don't need to believe something in order to show respect.
What is the harm in showing respect?
Showing respect in no way demeans your own view and actually provides an opportunity to have a sensible discussion.

 

[Total Power]

So, to extend on that

You don't think it's wrong to teach children something that is, essentially, an opinion?

And

Do you think that there is any danger in teaching impressionable young Australians that the west, is the cause for the slaughter and terrorism of Muslims?

Only if you dont teach them history

 

[Number37]

So, to extend on that

You don't think it's wrong to teach children something that is, essentially, an opinion?

And

Do you think that there is any danger in teaching impressionable young Australians that the west, is the cause for the slaughter and terrorism of Muslims?

What makes it wrong, that you don't agree with it?
You use the evocative words 'impressionable' and 'slaughter' and 'terrorism' for the purpose of?
Do you think young Muslims live in bubble?

How do you expect young Muslims or young people should get their education on IS? From the internet? From the mosque? From a radical?
There is a reason behind IS, by educating people (young and old) perhaps a non-violent solution can be found. People (young and old) can hear both sides of the story, if IS is as patently bad as you claim it would be pretty simple to point out, and yet young people are getting sucked in. Why is that? I am of the view part of the problem is that media coverage is all one way, IS bad, IS death cult then they get on the internet and get sold another story by IS recruiters.
Nowhere in all of that is the sensible centre.
The OP made some pretty telling points, which have largely been ignored. How a caliphate works, what are the repercussions etc etc.
IS have some (not all) legitimate gripes, the manner in which they are voicing or expressing their gripe is wrong. That would be a useful life lesson for any youngster don't you think?
Young people learn by exploring, questioning, talking about, contrasting...you don't learn (or teach) anything by sticking your head in the sand.

 

[blackcat]

I asked you a number of a questions which you failed to answer.



I asked why they should be afforded the "utmost respect", if I (or others) do not regard them as messengers.



I asked you why I should regard Mohammed as a "messenger from God', therefore earning my "utmost respect". Purely on the say-so of a number of people? No answer.



I asked you if I should also show the utmost respect to the teachings and doctrines of the followers of Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard, who some regard as 'prophets". Should I show the utmost respect to the teachings of any person who claims he or she is a 'prophet"? No answer.



I asked you why not.. No answer.



I asked you to provide an argument for the 'legitimacy' of prophets and why I should accept their status as 'prophets. No answer.

new religion is profits.

medusala #godsbusiness.

 

[Roylion]

Actually you chose to disregard everything that I said for reasons apparent to only you.

I would have thought the reasons were obvious.

The starting point has to be that he is a prophet and should be afforded the respect of a prophet if only because that is the belief of some people. It can cause no harm respecting the beliefs of other people.

So should I respect the belief that people are immortal beings who have forgotten their true nature and that Xenu the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them with hydrogen bombs? How far am I allowed to go in criticising or refuting such a belief before R-E-S-P-E-C-T turns into (just to use one of your favoured terms) "bigotry".

Do you understand just how important the prophet is in Islam and to Muslims?

Well yes I do. I teach "Islam" and indeed the tenets of the other Abrahamic religions to students. So because the "prophet" is important to some, he/she cannot be criticised in any way? And if I do criticise Mohammed in word or deed (e.g. drawing a caricature) am I disrespecting Islam?

No the starting point is respect. If you want to start by rubishing other people's beliefs how the dickens would you have any chance of them even listening to a word that you say?

I would hope that the weight of empirical evidence in favour of my views might get others to consider the possible legitimacy of any views I might hold. Should I reject human evolution, because Islam believes that mankind is a unique and honoured creation of Allah and therefore never evolved? Should I respect the views of any who try to persuade me of such? And if I reject their premise on human evolution am I disrespecting Islam by doing so?

Showing respect and having the right to have your own view aren't mutually exclusive, unless you want them to be.

At what point is 'respect' not 'respect'? A refusal to accept that a Islamic view (for example in the area of human evolution) is correct, is 'respect' or 'disrespect'?

 

[Number37]

I would have thought the reasons were obvious.



So should I respect the belief that people are immortal beings who have forgotten their true nature and that Xenu the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth (then known as "Teegeeack") in a DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them with hydrogen bombs? How far am I allowed to go in criticising or refuting such a belief before R-E-S-P-E-C-T turns into (just to use one of your favoured terms) "bigotry".



Well yes I do. I teach "Islam" and indeed the tenets of the other Abrahamic religions to students. So because the "prophet" is important to some, he/she cannot be criticised in any way? And if I do criticise Mohammed in word or deed (e.g. drawing a caricature) am I disrespecting Islam?



I would hope that the weight of empirical evidence in favour of my views might get others to consider the possible legitimacy of any views I might hold. Should I reject human evolution, because Islam believes that mankind is a unique and honoured creation of Allah and therefore never evolved? Should I respect the views of any who try to persuade me of such? And if I reject their premise on human evolution am I disrespecting Islam by doing so?



At what point is 'respect' not 'respect'? A refusal to accept that a Islamic view (for example in the area of human evolution) is correct, is 'respect' or 'disrespect'?

I say respect you take it as don't criticise.
Will just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[medusala]

new religion is profits.

medusala #godsbusiness.

Medusala wouldn't be playing the role of Shylock in Merchant of Venice that's for sure.

 

[Roylion]

I say respect you take it as don't criticise.

I'll ask again. At what point does 'respect' become 'disrespect'? A refusal to accept that a Islamic view is correct (for example in the area of human evolution) is 'respect' or 'disrespect'?

 

[blackcat]

Medusala wouldn't be playing the role of Shylock in Merchant of Venice that's for sure.

third person

always underrated as a trope. it works just because sportsmen and thespians have degraded it to absurdity status

 

[medusala]

third person

always underrated as a trope. it works just because sportsmen and thespians have degraded it to absurdity status

Confirmed knob status with the below.

"I'll always be Michael Clarke and I hope that I can be successful being me"

Third person reserved for Genius only.

 

[Number37]

I'll ask again. At what point does 'respect' become 'disrespect'? A refusal to accept that a Islamic view is correct (for example in the area of human evolution) is 'respect' or 'disrespect'?

You have clearly demonstrated that you are unwilling to having to a sensible conversation, that is fine, your choice. That has bugger all to do with refusal to accept anything as correct, which is in fact another gross distortion of what was written. You point blank refuse to accept that some people have different beliefs to yours and that because your beliefs are different you don't need to show respect. Again, that is fine, your choice.

If the conversation is premised on you distorting what I say so that you can make a point, as I have said repeatedly, there are plenty of others who have done that to the death in this thread, to me all it demonstrates is duplicity. Distorting what others say in order to validate your own view is sad, but again, if that is the way you want to be and if that is the view that you hold, good for you.

 

[Roylion]

You have clearly demonstrated that you are unwilling to having to a sensible conversation, that is fine, your choice. That has bugger all to do with refusal to accept anything as correct, which is in fact another gross distortion of what was written.

Why can't you just answer the question? At what point does 'respect' become 'disrespect'? A refusal / reluctance to accept that an Islamic view is correct (for example in the area of human evolution) is 'respect' or 'disrespect'?

You point blank refuse to accept that some people have different beliefs to yours

Of course some people have different beliefs to me. Am I allowed to question their beliefs? Because they can certainly question mine. That's where discussion ensues. Hopefully I can back up my beliefs with solid logic, reasoning and evidence. If they can also, then I may be convinced of their belief, no matter what it is.

and that because your beliefs are different you don't need to show respect.

If I disagree with their beliefs am I allowed to say so? If so, is that respect or disrespect? Or do I have to stay silent in order respect their beliefs?

If the conversation is premised on you distorting what I say so that you can make a point,

I'm asking you questions. Repeatedly. Questions which you refuse to answer.

as I have said repeatedly, there are plenty of others who have done that to the death in this thread, to me all it demonstrates is duplicity.

I'm not the one being duplicitous here. The questions I asked are fairly straight-forward.

Distorting what others say in order to validate your own view is sad, but again, if that is the way you want to be and if that is the view that you hold, good for you.

Are you going to answer the question/s I've asked you?

 

[Number37]

I have already given you my answer, 1. you just refuse to accept my answer 2. you then twist it or add something onto it which I didn't say or imply and you then go off on some other rubbish or you claim that I don't want you to criticise. I do not know how many times I have to say criticise all you want, you ( and others) continually bang this drum at the same time as you keep criticising. If you want to have a conversation at the level of 5 year olds, it does not serve any purpose and more importantly it has been requested by the mods that it ceases.

Showing respect and having an opposing view are not mutually exclusive, UNLESS YOU WANT THEM TO BE.

 

[Xsess]

So is that yes, or no?

 

[Roylion]

I do not know how many times I have to say criticise all you want,

So at what point of criticism does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?

Showing respect and having an opposing view are not mutually exclusive, UNLESS YOU WANT THEM TO BE.

Ok. So at what point does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?

 

[The Edukator]

At the point where you say anything negative. That's disrespect because his beliefs have no fault

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

If you want to have a conversation at the level of 5 year olds, it does not serve any purpose and more importantly it has been requested by the mods that it ceases.

No, what the mods sought the cessation of was your continual cry of 'bigot' whenever anyone disagreed with you.

 

[Number37]

So at what point of criticism does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?



Ok. So at what point does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?

Which part of what I have said previously is unclear, or which part of what I have said previously don't you understand?

 

[Number37]

At the point where you say anything negative. That's disrespect because his beliefs have no fault

No, what the mods sought the cessation of was your continual cry of 'bigot' whenever anyone disagreed with you.

Back to the personal sniping again eh. And you want to have a whinge when you get labelled. LOLZ

 

[Roylion]

Which part of what I have said previously is unclear, or which part of what I have said previously don't you understand?

I'm unclear what your answer is. So if you could repeat your answer then I'll be clear.

At what point of criticism of belief or an aspect of belief, does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

Back to the personal sniping again eh. And you want to have a whinge when you get labelled. LOLZ

Correcting the record is not sniping.

But lets get back on topic, do you believe that the proposition that people who leave a club, society, organisation or religion should be murdered is an extremist one?

 

[Number37]

I'm unclear what your answer is. So if you could repeat your answer then I'll be clear.

At what point of criticism of belief does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?

Go back and read what I have said previously and tell me which part you don't understand.

 

[Roylion]

Go back and read what I have said previously and tell me which part you don't understand.

Clearly I haven't understood what you are trying to say. So here's your chance to answer my relatively simple question so that I do understand.

At what point of criticism of belief or an aspect of belief, does 'respect' become 'disrespect'?

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

This is a must read, by one of the bravest women on the planet
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...002e5a-9aaf-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html