Prediction Do we have the squad for a serious crack at this years flag?

[TheJimmyCartel]

Yea I'm no fan of Smedts but if he's worth persevering with it's up forward. He did do ok in the games you mention when left in the position but struggled late in the year (played a horrible game against North for memory).

If he plays like yesterday and/or doesn't build on last year, I'm pretty certain he'll get forced out this year. Which would be unfortunate because I feel like he could be very good if he could just learn to find more of the ball, and get a bit more of the basics right. That mark he dropped on the 50m line in the 2nd half was a shocker.

 

[thegerman]

Whats the deal with Simpson ? he looked like he lost 5kg but didn't seem to move like he had a good fitness base

First game back after back surgery, in extreme conditions. Thinking that may have something to do with his lack of perceived fitness.

 

[James1970]

We don't have a squad that is guaranteed a place in the 8 let alone win the flag, this is a team that will do very well to finish 6-8th.

Tend to agree - too much is riding on too many of our kids to step up at the same time, while the proven champs are a year older and closer to retirement. If we finish top 6 we'll be doing well - but with a bit of bad luck with injuries and close games, it'll be a struggle. What will be of major interest is to see how the coach handles the situation regarding playing and blooding the kids.

 

[fpm84]

We don't have a squad that is guaranteed a place in the 8 let alone win the flag, this is a team that will do very well to finish 6-8th.

Completely disagree.

Any side that can boast Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Motlop and Duncan in their prime, plus AA-quality service from Johnson and Lonergan, the reliability of Bartel, Stokes and Rivers and the emergence of Caddy and Guthrie is a top 8 side.

I suspect we're in the 4th-6th bracket this season, with Port, Sydney and Hawthorn clearly ahead of us and competing with Fremantle and North Melbourne (potentially a bolting Richmond or GCS) for 4th, 5th and 6th.

Things would have to go REALLY badly for us to miss the eight, and when I say really badly I mean Clark barely getting on the park, Selwood missing extended periods, Lonergan rapidly declining. Possibly but unlikely.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

In my opinion, Smedts looked promising yesterday, especially considering how much footy he's missed in the last year or so. He had some attitude and fight.

Murdoch's performance on the other hand was worrying and Mackie looked lazy and disinterested at times.

 

[Partridge]

The probably want more from him than just a permanent small forward.

That's great. But I'd rather put a player - any player - in a position where they can contribute instead of somewhere completely alien to them and expect them to deliver.

That said, he wasn't our worst yesterday by a long shot.

 

[Lana]

That's great. But I'd rather put a player - any player - in a position where they can contribute instead of somewhere completely alien to them and expect them to deliver.

That said, he wasn't our worst yesterday by a long shot.

It's not as if he's never played the role before we drafted him, he played as a small rebounding defender in the U18s.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

anyone else starting to question if Murdoch is ever going to be up to the standard we require to win a flag ?

Big Murdoch fan, but perhaps what others are saying of Smedts is also true of him? He excels around goals, but the demand is for almost anyone who is not a KPP to rotate through the midfield, and he does not quite have the confidence to take players on in the way that his speed suggests he should. So that demand for versatility is damaging for him.

Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever read or seen an interview with him. Something not quite right? Like a few players, he didn't quite have the 2014 we and he might have hoped for. Injury? Demoralised because of being part of a Danger swap?

 

[Chinacats]

No chance for flag. 5 teams are better than us- Hawthorn, Sydney, Port Adelaide, Fremantle, kangaroos. We sit with Gold Coast, Richmond and Essendon fighting for 6th-8th. Other 9 teams we are above, yet if form slips badly and a few injury issues we could slip to 12th. Rucks and clearances are poor, no forward 50 pressure, no brilliance out of defense. Game plan is stagnant and not progressive. This is now Chris Scott's team and let's recall when he first arrived that he was looking to 2014/2015 and competing with Gold Coast. Time to deliver a game plan that can stand up. Maybe Smedts in forward half to help with forward pressure and need some speed off half back. Slow Kelly, bartel ,GHS and Enright a worry.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

I seriously think we are in with a real shot again this year, but the job is getting made harder every year, when we continually recruit/draft already injured players!
Just once, I'd like to start the season off on the front foot.

Rant over.......go Cats!!!!

I share the frustration. But to be fair to the Cats, it's been clear for years that their "moneyball factor" - the thing that drops the cost - has been injury. We have used the fact that draftees, and players we have recruited from other clubs, have been injured, and sometimes badly injured, to get them for bargain basement picks.

We have had to do that because for years because we have had crummy picks. The Ottens trade was decisive for the flags - but you can also argue that it played its part in punching a hole in our list: first pick in 2004 was 32, which was Prismall. So for a lot more than a decade the Cats have lived on the draft pick poverty line. To be competitive, they have had to take risks:

07: Selwood - knee - worked.

08: Brown - broken leg - didn't work.

Etc. What it does suggest is that if you are going to organise your picks that way, then you have to invest disproportionately in medicine and rehab. Perhaps we did not quite do that second half of the equation, given the relatively high turnover in fitness staff (where is Loris Bertolacci now I wonder?)

It is potentially a great strategy, but there is plenty of evidence that, contrary to their constant, almost obsessive, claims about "caution" with injuries, the Cats rush players back to maintain their ladder position.

 

[Retired Jimmy]

No chance for flag. 5 teams are better than us- Hawthorn, Sydney, Port Adelaide, Fremantle, kangaroos. We sit with Gold Coast, Richmond and Essendon fighting for 6th-8th. Other 9 teams we are above, yet if form slips badly and a few injury issues we could slip to 12th. Rucks and clearances are poor, no forward 50 pressure, no brilliance out of defense. Game plan is stagnant and not progressive. This is now Chris Scott's team and let's recall when he first arrived that he was looking to 2014/2015 and competing with Gold Coast. Time to deliver a game plan that can stand up. Maybe Smedts in forward half to help with forward pressure and need some speed off half back. Slow Kelly, bartel ,GHS and Enright a worry.

Couldn't agree more. Since Scott has been at the club, I've watched us slowly decline into a side that ranks near the bottom of the competition in relation to stoppages, clearances and contested footy.......for a good 3-4 years now.
At the peak of our powers we were the heaviest team in the competition, and out muscled everyone in the scrimmages. Looking at our list now, there too many blokes who have no muscle definition or size, and it's showing when we try to win the ball around the packs......we can't compete!
I can't stand this 'zone off' brand of football...........there's enough proven antedotal evidence that when we win the ball, we win most games.........We were terrible in these areas yesterday.

 

[Cursed Cat]

I share the frustration. But to be fair to the Cats, it's been clear for years that their "moneyball factor" - the thing that drops the cost - has been injury. We have used the fact that draftees, and players we have recruited from other clubs, have been injured, and sometimes badly injured, to get them for bargain basement picks.

We have had to do that because for years because we have had crummy picks. The Ottens trade was decisive for the flags - but you can also argue that it played its part in punching a hole in our list: first pick in 2004 was 32, which was Prismall. So for a lot more than a decade the Cats have lived on the draft pick poverty line. To be competitive, they have had to take risks:

07: Selwood - knee - worked.

08: Brown - broken leg - didn't work.

Etc. What it does suggest is that if you are going to organise your picks that way, then you have to invest disproportionately in medicine and rehab. Perhaps we did not quite do that second half of the equation, given the relatively high turnover in fitness staff (where is Loris Bertolacci now I wonder?)

It is potentially a great strategy, but there is plenty of evidence that, contrary to their constant, almost obsessive, claims about "caution" with injuries, the Cats rush players back to maintain their ladder position.

Pretty sure Brown broke his leg after he came to the club?

Anyway, you can add Varcoe to that list, he had a an issue with a foot before he was drafted.. and of course Cockatoo, same deal ..

As for the Ottens trade and the 2004 draft, we didn't miss out on a helluva lot, in fact Prismal was a pretty decent pick in what's proven to be a top-heavy draft. After that, Geelong were obviously victims of their own success as far as high draft picks went.
The one year we got a decent pick after crashing in 2006, we nabbed a decent player ..

 

[Turbocat]

I share the frustration. But to be fair to the Cats, it's been clear for years that their "moneyball factor" - the thing that drops the cost - has been injury. We have used the fact that draftees, and players we have recruited from other clubs, have been injured, and sometimes badly injured, to get them for bargain basement picks.

We have had to do that because for years because we have had crummy picks. The Ottens trade was decisive for the flags - but you can also argue that it played its part in punching a hole in our list: first pick in 2004 was 32, which was Prismall. So for a lot more than a decade the Cats have lived on the draft pick poverty line. To be competitive, they have had to take risks:

07: Selwood - knee - worked.

08: Brown - broken leg - didn't work.

Etc. What it does suggest is that if you are going to organise your picks that way, then you have to invest disproportionately in medicine and rehab. Perhaps we did not quite do that second half of the equation, given the relatively high turnover in fitness staff (where is Loris Bertolacci now I wonder?)

It is potentially a great strategy, but there is plenty of evidence that, contrary to their constant, almost obsessive, claims about "caution" with injuries, the Cats rush players back to maintain their ladder position.

Agree with a lot of what you saying ...

but Brown broke his leg after his was on our list , he was not cheap due to the leg. And heres the point , as much as one might draft the uninjured..one can still have bad luck . Look at Melb re Petrrica.

But over all , Wells use this methodology a lot , he looks for the unloved player. He is the Contrarian of the draft.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Couldn't agree more. Since Scott has been at the club, I've watched us slowly decline into a side that ranks near the bottom of the competition in relation to stoppages, clearances and contested footy.......for a good 3-4 years now.
At the peak of our powers we were the heaviest team in the competition, and out muscled everyone in the scrimmages. Looking at our list now, there too many blokes who have no muscle definition or size, and it's showing when we try to win the ball around the packs......we can't compete!
I can't stand this 'zone off' brand of football...........there's enough proven antedotal evidence that when we win the ball, we win most games.........We were terrible in these areas yesterday.

Well said , why have we gone away from recruiting and developing players with big bodies when it worked so well for us ?

we seem more obsessed with having pace than strength when we won 3 premierships without too many quick players.To put things simply we need big strong bodies that can run for four quarters

 

[Vdubs]

Couldn't agree more. Since Scott has been at the club, I've watched us slowly decline into a side that ranks near the bottom of the competition in relation to stoppages, clearances and contested footy.......for a good 3-4 years now.
At the peak of our powers we were the heaviest team in the competition, and out muscled everyone in the scrimmages. Looking at our list now, there too many blokes who have no muscle definition or size, and it's showing when we try to win the ball around the packs......we can't compete!
I can't stand this 'zone off' brand of football...........there's enough proven antedotal evidence that when we win the ball, we win most games.........We were terrible in these areas yesterday.

Since CS has been there we have remained in or near top 4 and have not dropped off and our drafting is correspondingly not top shelf. Meanwhile, our heavyweights like Ling, Corey, Rooke, Ablett, Chappy have left and our other heavyweights like Bartel, Kelly, SJ, Enright are ageing and slowing.
The "antidote" is to pick the cream of the crop and or develop anti-ageing techniques that are ASADA proof.
Or let the current crop of recruits develop and be patient. Our former heavyweights like Corey and Boris had some horrendous times with Brisbane's awesome MF strength before they were heavyweights.
Enough "anecdotal" evidence for all of this.

 

[Retired Jimmy]

Since CS has been there we have remained in or near top 4 and have not dropped off and our drafting is correspondingly not top shelf. Meanwhile, our heavyweights like Ling, Corey, Rooke, Ablett, Chappy have left and our other heavyweights like Bartel, Kelly, SJ, Enright are ageing and slowing.
The "antidote" is to pick the cream of the crop and or develop anti-ageing techniques that are ASADA proof.
Or let the current crop of recruits develop and be patient. Our former heavyweights like Corey and Boris had some horrendous times with Brisbane's awesome MF strength before they were heavyweights.
Enough "anecdotal" evidence for all of this.

Or.......we could get some blokes in the gym

 

[Retired Jimmy]

I really don't think the game is heading that way any longer. I watched the Hawthorn game on Thursday night and was really thrown back by how lean every single player was. Now look back at games from 10 years ago and the players were body builders in shape. Thick arms and chests. A lot of rule changes too so this has allowed lighter players to flourish when they'd often get slaughtered.
Lonergan, Taylor are the perfect examples of players with lean slim builds but can run all day. Prior to this, it was the likes of Harley, Hunt, Mooney who preferred brute strength over endurance.

Then why are we continually losing the stoppages and clearances? It is my greatest frustration.....is it game plan?

 

[Vdubs]

Then why are we continually losing the stoppages and clearances? It is my greatest frustration.....is it game plan?

Inferior ball getting ability. Inferior talent. Seriously.
In recent years, we won by repelling from our awesome backline.
Even at our very best, stoppages and clearance were never our forte.

 

[Lana]

Then why are we continually losing the stoppages and clearances? It is my greatest frustration.....is it game plan?

It's a combination of things
1) Our ruckman since Ottens have been serviceable at best, to me this is the most important thing. If Simpson isn't the answer we're going to have to trade one in.
2) Our inside mids are a mixture of young and old. Besides selwood, they are over 30 and under 23. Though this is changing.
3) Our game plan is designed around our poor clearance ability. We try to avoid causing stoppages as much as possible. We simply focus on other things since it won't be a strength with our current players. We are trying to turn losing clearances from a weakness into a strength of getting turn overs from poor opposition clearances.

 

[Retired Jimmy]

It's a combination of things
1) Our ruckman since Ottens have are serviceable at best, to me this is the most important thing. If Simpson isn't the answer we're going to have to trade one in.
2) Our inside mids is a mixture of young and old. Besides selwood it is over 30 and under 23. Though this is changing.
3) Our game plan is designed around our poor clearance ability. We try to avoid causing stoppages as much as possible. We simply focus on other things since it won't be a strength with our current players. We are trying to turn losing clearances from a weakness into a strength of getting turn overs from poor opposition clearances.

All solid points....let me elaborate on my frustration a little more........it's the ease in which we are pushed off the ball, and the way that sides are able to link up and score so easily from stoppages and clearances.
Where as I agree that our ball winning strengths aren't too sound, you can still make it difficult for your opponent by having a willingness to win the contest......that's something that comes from within.
Secondly, if we are aware of this, all the more reason to get some size on the bodies to make it harder to move us off the ball. It's frustrating seeing some guys who have been in the system with us for a number of years, and haven't developed any muscle definition. I'm not talking about mass, I'm talking about definition

 

[Catatonic Shock]

Then why are we continually losing the stoppages and clearances? It is my greatest frustration.....is it game plan?

The fact we only have 2 A grade midfielders, one of which spends more time suspended than actually playing, is the reason.
Everyone likes to point back to 07-2011 yet fail to acknowledge 2000-2006 and the development needed to create that 07-2011 team.
"Back when" we had IMO 7 A grade midfielders to choose from (Ablett, Corey, Bartel, Chapman, Selwood, Kelly, Ling).

Some people expect results that we got 5 years ago, yet fail to see the difference between the sides.
You said earlier you have seen a decline since Scotty took over, well DUH mate! We won the flag in his first year, which many would say was the last hurrah of an all time great team, of course they will go backwards, any team that loses so many genuine Champions will!

 

[Vdubs]

All solid points....let me elaborate on my frustration a little more........it's the ease in which we are pushed off the ball, and the way that sides are able to link up and score so easily from stoppages and clearances.
Where as I agree that our ball winning strengths aren't too sound, you can still make it difficult for your opponent by having a willingness to win the contest......that's something that comes from within.
Secondly, if we are aware of this, all the more reason to get some size on the bodies to make it harder to move us off the ball. It's frustrating seeing some guys who have been in the system with us for a number of years, and haven't developed any muscle definition. I'm not talking about mass, I'm talking about definition

Who are your main culprits?
Caddy is large enough.
SJ, GHS, Selwood have no issues with size. And DNP on Sunday.
Guthrie is a novice as a mid.
Stokes is a midget really but does well.
Kelly should stay there and be an extractor; Bartel was never at his best trying to extract.

 

[Retired Jimmy]

The fact we only have 2 A grade midfielders, one of which spends more time suspended than actually playing, is the reason.
Everyone likes to point back to 07-2011 yet fail to acknowledge 2000-2006 and the development needed to create that 07-2011 team.
"Back when" we had IMO 7 A grade midfielders to choose from (Ablett, Corey, Bartel, Chapman, Selwood, Kelly, Ling).

Some people expect results that we got 5 years ago, yet fail to see the difference between the sides.
You said earlier you have seen a decline since Scotty took over, well DUH mate! We won the flag in his first year, which many would say was the last hurrah of an all time great team, of course they will go backwards, any team that loses so many genuine Champions will!

Then I expect to see every stone overturned to gain an edge, or weaknesses to be worked on........if we are lacking in the ball winning areas around a scrimmage, then I expect to see hard bodies in there making it hard for the opposition. Not noodle armed blokes who have been in the system for 4-5 years

 

[Vdubs]

Then I expect to see every stone overturned to gain an edge, or weaknesses to be worked on........if we are lacking in the ball winning areas around a scrimmage, then I expect to see hard bodies in there making it hard for the opposition. Not noodle armed blokes who have been in the system for 4-5 years

This is a deja-vu moment; have we done this a while ago? Who are these noodle armed players?

 

[Retired Jimmy]

Who are your main culprits?
Caddy is large enough.
SJ, GHS, Selwood have no issues with size. And DNP on Sunday.
Guthrie is a novice as a mid.
Stokes is a midget really but does well.
Kelly should stay there and be an extractor; Bartel was never at his best trying to extract.

I agree totally with Kelly......he loves that inside stuff. Other than him, Selwood is the only Geelong mid who looks like he spends any concerted time in the gym