Society/Culture Domestic Violence

[kfc1]

He won't do that on any topic when challenged.

We both know what he's he for.

post #679

I disagree that having males present would not enable healing. I am not an expert in this area by any means but my views are shaped by reading and listening to Erin Pizzey's experience running womens shelters (among others but she is freshest in my mind atm).

I find genderising everything extremely poisonous. You wouldnt say that kids who are the victims of abuse from their parents should be put in a shelter with only other children to heal - thats just absurd. Even children abused by their mothers are cared for by females.

 

[apparentlydead]

post #679

You're not an expert, but you've read a book. That's nice.

Doesn't stop you posting copious amounts of s**t though.

 

[romeohwho]

She feels classrooms have for a while now been pushing a style of teaching/learning where by it suits girls far more than boys.

Boys can no longer be boys anymore. Everywhere they turn within a school environment they are highly restricted in how they can act or what they can do during times like recess.

In the classroom more than ever it's a sit still, be quiet and concentrate the whole time. By nature girls do this much better than boys.

The lack of movement and rigid restrictions associated with modern schooling are not beneficial to boys learning in her opinion. Boy do much better in a learning environment when there is more scope for expressing ones ideas more verbally and hands on.

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/teaching-has-become-feminised-and-boys-lose-out-20131121-2xxu4.html

Be quiet and concentrate. Boys can't do that?
What lack of movement? What rigid restrictions? How are they highly restricted everywhere they turn?
Surely schools are more flexible that ever before? Surely the use of technology is equally useful for both genders? Inquiry learning, interactive classrooms-isn't that where we are at and quite gender friendly for both?
Can you give more specific examples than this please?

 

[Gough]

This boy never got the hang of shutting up, and concentrating at school, I also never felt I was being emasculated by my inability to do so.

 

[Bostonian]

This boy never got the hang of shutting up, and concentrating at school, I also never felt I was being emasculated by my inability to do so.

What was the male to female ratio of teacher at your school then?

My two kids had a total of 2 male teachers between them teach them from their prep to grade 6 years.

I'm guessing you had a hell of a lot more male teachers than that during your time at school.

 

[Gough]

Mostly female in primary, which was spread across five schools, and three states, fifty/fifty in high school. You're jumping at shadows mate.

 

[Bostonian]

Be quiet and concentrate. Boys can't do that?

Well no, they can't. I went to an all boys school and i can look back and honestly say 70% of the students I went through with in my year level could not.

What lack of movement? What rigid restrictions? How are they highly restricted everywhere they turn?

Seeing the restrictions placed on my son as compared to me in regards to activities that could be played during recess as an example shows a hell of a shift away from letting boys do what little boys like to do.

Surely schools are more flexible that ever before? Surely the use of technology is equally useful for both genders? Inquiry learning, interactive classrooms-isn't that where we are at and quite gender friendly for both?
Can you give more specific examples than this please?

Maggie Dent has looked into it quite a bit.

The removal of play in kindergarten and preschool can be damaging to our children’s ability to function as social beings – which is still our key biological drive. The rise in aggressive behaviour being exhibited by many younger children, mainly boys, is a sign they are unable to cope with environments with no opportunity to play, no fun, little movement and developmentally inappropriate tasks – and we then penalise these children by suspending or expelling them! We are failing them – they are not failing preschool!

3. New focus for boys in education especially the early years

In 2002, then Education Minister Brendan Nelson conducted a review of boys in education and noticed large areas of concern – absolutely nothing has changed. There is no question that our boys are struggling more than our girls with the push down for formal learning in the early years. Not only are they over 75% more likely to struggle at school, they are in the vast majority in all remedial classes, behaviour classes and the subject of school expulsions and suspensions.

It should be added it's also indigenous kids or kids of poor social status who are impacted.

http://www.maggiedent.com/sites/def...hoodintheNameofEducation_BY_MAGGIE_DENT_1.pdf

Getting rid of NAPLAN sounds like it would be a good idea to start with. Or in the least change a lot of the plan that is having a negative impact on a lot of kids.

She also wrote an insightful piece here.

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/you...ools-are-failing-our-boys-20130517-2jqfh.html

 

[cartwright]

...what kids play at primary school has to do with domestic violence....

 

[romeohwho]

Well no, they can't. I went to an all boys school and i can look back and honestly say 70% of the students I went through with in my year level could not.



Seeing the restrictions placed on my son as compared to me in regards to activities that could be played during recess as an example shows a hell of a shift away from letting boys do what little boys like to do.



Maggie Dent has looked into it quite a bit.





It should be added it's also indigenous kids or kids of poor social status who are impacted.

http://www.maggiedent.com/sites/def...hoodintheNameofEducation_BY_MAGGIE_DENT_1.pdf

Getting rid of NAPLAN sounds like it would be a good idea to start with. Or in the least change a lot of the plan that is having a negative impact on a lot of kids.

She also wrote an insightful piece here.

http://www.essentialkids.com.au/you...ools-are-failing-our-boys-20130517-2jqfh.html

When did play get removed from kinder and pre-school?
Not really convinced re 'restrictions' -pretty sure technology in classrooms enables both genders to concentrate on the internet etc.
I'd be surprised if this so called schooling 'disadvantage' contributes to domestic violence.

 

[Maggie5]

What was the male to female ratio of teacher at your school then?

My two kids had a total of 2 male teachers between them teach them from their prep to grade 6 years.

I'm guessing you had a hell of a lot more male teachers than that during your time at school.

I am a bit confused, are you saying it is wrong to expect children (irrespective of gender) to learn to be quiet and concentrate?

My grand-son goes to a co-ed catholic school in his 3rd year and has never had a male teacher although there are a number there and the Principal is male.
I am not really sure that the gender of his teacher is making any real difference in his life.
He understands that there is a time for play and a time for learning which normally means concentrating.

On the other hand, my grand-daughter goes to an all female private school and to date has had two male teachers.

Both understand that it is wrong to be violent to others but this is the lesson that they have learned from their parents and extended family, not from their teachers.

Not sure how all this ties in with domestic violence

 

[cartwright]

I am a bit confused, are you saying it is wrong to expect children (irrespective of gender) to learn to be quiet and concentrate?

My grand-son goes to a co-ed catholic school in his 3rd year and has never had a male teacher although there are a number there and the Principal is male.
I am not really sure that the gender of his teacher is making any real difference in his life.
He understands that there is a time for play and a time for learning which normally means concentrating.

On the other hand, my grand-daughter goes to an all female private school and to date has had two male teachers.

Both understand that it is wrong to be violent to others but this is the lesson that they have learned from their parents and extended family, not from their teachers.

Not sure how all this ties in with domestic violence

me either. Maybe Bostonian can explain.

 

[Bostonian]

...what kids play at primary school has to do with domestic violence....

http://www.maggiedent.com/sites/def...hoodintheNameofEducation_BY_MAGGIE_DENT_1.pdf

The removal of play in kindergarten and preschool can be damaging to our children’s ability to function as social beings – which is still our key biological drive. The rise in aggressive behaviour being exhibited by many younger children, mainly boys, is a sign they are unable to cope with environments with no opportunity to play, no fun, little movement and developmentally inappropriate tasks – and we then penalise these children by suspending or expelling them! We are failing them – they are not failing preschool!

 

[Bostonian]

I am a bit confused, are you saying it is wrong to expect children (irrespective of gender) to learn to be quiet and concentrate?

My grand-son goes to a co-ed catholic school in his 3rd year and has never had a male teacher although there are a number there and the Principal is male.
I am not really sure that the gender of his teacher is making any real difference in his life.
He understands that there is a time for play and a time for learning which normally means concentrating.

Well if you're a young boy who has either no father in his life or a man of average character for a role model a male teacher can be a wonderful way for a young boy in that situation to learn from a positive role model.

I'm sorry, but just as a grown man can't relate to a young girl, grown women cannot relate to how a boy thinks and feels.

We are different creatures.

If a boy goes through his whole educational life having all female teachers that is not a good thing for his development.

On the other hand, my grand-daughter goes to an all female private school and to date has had two male teachers.

Both understand that it is wrong to be violent to others but this is the lesson that they have learned from their parents and extended family, not from their teachers.

Not sure how all this ties in with domestic violence

Not every kid has a good family around them. It ties in because young boys are often square pegs being pushed into round holes. Aggression can often be born from pure frustration and not understanding how else to deal with it. And then the seed is sown because they then think that is how you deal with constant suppression of who they are.

 

[Bostonian]

When did play get removed from kinder and pre-school?
Not really convinced re 'restrictions' -pretty sure technology in classrooms enables both genders to concentrate on the internet etc.
I'd be surprised if this so called schooling 'disadvantage' contributes to domestic violence.

I can quote anecdotal examples of it from my experiences but using someone like Dents studies into it is a better way to understand how the education is failing boys as well as other groups of children.

If you're self esteem is crushed and you're feeling worthless by the time you leave school (if you make it through to the end of year 12) then the system in part has created potentially someone who feels displaced, hopeless and quite possibly angry at the world through years of pent up frustration.

Someone with those issues always has the potential to be someone who tries to gain back some power by using violence over others as a way to get it.

 

[romeohwho]

http://www.maggiedent.com/sites/def...hoodintheNameofEducation_BY_MAGGIE_DENT_1.pdf

Yep-haven't read the whole thing, but got a fair way and its all just anecdotal isn't it?
Where is the link to quantative measures e.g. how much 'play time ' has been lost. And 'huge meltdowns in the car'(my fav)
Just looked a bit like its all the fault of the education system, especially the Labour Party-which seemed to have been condemned on no evidence.

 

[Bostonian]

Yep-haven't read the whole thing, but got a fair way and its all just anecdotal isn't it?
Where is the link to quantative measures e.g. how much 'play time ' has been lost. And 'huge meltdowns in the car'(my fav)
Just looked a bit like its all the fault of the education system, especially the Labour Party-which seemed to have been condemned on no evidence.

My wife's experiences mirror a lot of what she says.

One example was earlier this year two boys were having a play wrestle (WWE style) and having a bit of fun. A teacher on yard duty stopped them, told them off and sent them to the principles office for "fighting".

Apparently this kind of rougher play isn't allowed.

A couple of kids were running round with sticks pretending to be soldiers. They got told off for running round with sticks and for "shooting each other".

Boys it seems cannot engage in the kind of activities that boys have always enjoyed doing. They have to be censured at any stage they start to look like they are going to go outside of some stupid guidelines some moron created as to how they think children should act in accordance with their views.

That IS the education systems fault.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

One example was earlier this year two boys were having a play wrestle (WWE style) and having a bit of fun. A teacher on yard duty stopped them, told them off and sent them to the principles office for "fighting".

A couple of kids were running round with sticks pretending to be soldiers. They got told off for running round with sticks and for "shooting each other".

I don't have a huge problem with the actions of the school in either of the examples you have given

 

[Bostonian]

I don't have a huge problem with the actions of the school in either of the examples you have given

I do. There's nothing wrong with what they were doing.

They were only playing and getting rid of a bit of energy and expressing themselves.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I do. There's nothing wrong with what they were doing.

They were only playing and getting rid of a bit of energy and expressing themselves.

Boys are pushed into those sterotypes, they can and should be encouraged to be so much more than that. Of course they should be physical and can be in a more organized way.

 

[romeohwho]

My wife's experiences mirror a lot of what she says.

One example was earlier this year two boys were having a play wrestle (WWE style) and having a bit of fun. A teacher on yard duty stopped them, told them off and sent them to the principles office for "fighting".

Apparently this kind of rougher play isn't allowed.

A couple of kids were running round with sticks pretending to be soldiers. They got told off for running round with sticks and for "shooting each other".

Boys it seems cannot engage in the kind of activities that boys have always enjoyed doing. They have to be censured at any stage they start to look like they are going to go outside of some stupid guidelines some moron created as to how they think children should act in accordance with their views.

That IS the education systems fault.

Nope that is not the fault of the education dept. That is simply one teacher being a little over protective. If she had concerns, she could have just said, tone it down and left it at that. Do you think the education dept has a guideline that says they can't 'play roughly'?

 

[TheWoodenSlug]

I'm not a teacher and I don't have kids, so I'm not really in any position to comment on how primary schools are run these days, but I'd think it's a little heavy handed to discipline children for play wrestling if it were obvious that they were both just mucking around.

 

[Bostonian]

Boys are pushed into those sterotypes, they can and should be encouraged to be so much more than that. Of course they should be physical and can be in a more organized way.

What stereotypes? Are you suggesting Boys are pushed into enjoying wrestling and playing soldiers?

I don't think i've ever come across anyone who has forcefully made into a John Cena fan.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

I'm not a teacher and I don't have kids, so I'm not really in any position to comment on how primary schools are run these days, but I'd think it's a little heavy handed to discipline children for play wrestling if it were obvious that they were both just mucking around.

I have two sons, and I would have no problem with a teacher telling them to desist from wrestling on the oval.

 

[Kynge of Begrem]

What stereotypes? Are you suggesting Boys are pushed into enjoying wrestling and playing soldiers?

I don't think i've ever come across anyone who has forcefully made into a John Cena fan.

Yes, I am suggesting boys are pushed into playing soldiers, do you think otherwise?

 

[Bostonian]

Nope that is not the fault of the education dept. That is simply one teacher being a little over protective. If she had concerns, she could have just said, tone it down and left it at that. Do you think the education dept has a guideline that says they can't 'play roughly'?

I do.

It allows schools to independently ban things they do not like or shorten "play time" as they see fit.

That's lead to some schools banning kick to kick footy, playing marbles, doing cartwheels, playing twiggy.

They have created a system where someone else has the power now to act upon their views on how other peoples children should "play".